1. #1

    What has to happen? (Epilogue Spoilers)

    The Alliance could have let the Horde fight it's civil war and take advantage of the distraction it would have brought by strengthening contested territories. A majority of Kalimdor and anything aside from Lordaeron, Silvermoon, and possibly Mulgore, since we weren't 100% sure Baine would go all in with Vol'jin until he saw that the Alliance were backing Vol'jin, could have been the Alliances (I'm sure Sylvanas and Lor'themar would have put the defense of their own lands as priority). The Horde would have been in shambles after the Darkspear vs Orgimmar conflict, all the Alliance would have to do is clean up the pieces and slowly eliminate the now broken Horde race by race.

    Instead the Alliance played the good guys this expansion, well, Varian did anyways. They not only dethroned the tyrant who was mad with power, but he put a new leader in his place so they could rebuild. This is a win for the Horde, and we're back to where we started before Cataclysm with both no side being good or evil (they'd have to try pretty hard to find someone as cruel as Garrosh).

    After years of Varian despising the Orcs as well as the Horde, this isn't just surprising, it's outright out of character. We are either missing a key piece of dialogue or Varian knows something we don't. Varian was preaching patience earlier this expansion with the scenario in Krasarang, so maybe this was what he was waiting for, the Horde to destroy itself to avoid mass loss of life in his Alliance. He's also been much more diplomatic as seen in the scenario in Dun Morogh where he gives Moria a chance to display her loyalty instead of judging her based on her late captors actions, as well as the race she leads.

    This doesn't make much sense seeing as Mists of Pandaria was supposed to be the catalyst to a whole new Horde vs Alliance campaign. Sure we've had much more conflict than usual this expansion between the two factions, but the entirety of the expansion we've had a common goal with no "war" happening. The only war we've fought was in 5.1 on the beaches of Krasarang. 5.2 was a race to who will unlock the secrets of the Thunder King first between Lor'themar and Jaina, the only battles we fought were because of how densely populated the island was, it was unavoidable. 5.3 had the Alliance actually helping the Horde rebellion, I still don't understand why Northern Barrens is a WPVP zone seeing as the Alliance are actually helping the Horde rebels. And with 5.4 the Alliance goes all in and sieges Orgrimmar, but they're not fighting the Horde, they're fighting whoever stands with Garrosh. This isn't a faction vs faction conflict, an extreme majority of the Horde separate from Garrosh.

    And with the epilogue dialogue from Wrathion, he tells us of a coming threat. Now if this coming threat is next expansion that will just add to the pot of reasons why going back to the war between the Alliance and the Horde will make no sense. New leadership, a cause they literally worked together for, Varian having a change of character from his warmongering ways, the gratitude towards the Alliance for helping the Horde, and an invasion from a 3rd party. Unless the new leader straps Malfurion, Anduin, and Moria's child to a bomb, having the conflict resume will just be awkward.

    tl;dr Alliance helped the Horde instead of ending it when they had the chance, causing everything to go back to normal except now there's an awkward one night stand phase we'll have to get over.

    So what do you think will happen to cause the war to resume? If I'm missing anything or I'm just flat out wrong please let me know, because I'm stumped.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Rushro View Post
    After years of Varian despising the Orcs as well as the Horde, this isn't just surprising, it's outright out of character.
    How are you surprised? Garrosh has acted out of character as well, but one might say it's how he acts in MoP, while another might say it's his actions in Cataclysm. Bottom line is, he's out of character as well at some point.

    Blizzard just doesn't take the storylines as serious as the fans, that's why you'll find contradictions if you look closely.

  3. #3
    The Insane Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Twitch & Youtube
    Posts
    18,786
    I still want Worgen to be able to level in Gilneas.

    Sure we beat the Orcs, but the Scourge 2.0 is still gathering strength in Lordaeron.
    Human Female Gladiator (DPS Prot) Warrior. Wyrmrest Accord - US.

    "You should only install Warlords on your master hard drive. They will never be slaves." - @CM_Lore

    Better version of my avatar.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Hardstyler01 View Post
    How are you surprised? Garrosh has acted out of character as well, but one might say it's how he acts in MoP, while another might say it's his actions in Cataclysm. Bottom line is, he's out of character as well at some point.

    Blizzard just doesn't take the storylines as serious as the fans, that's why you'll find contradictions if you look closely.
    I feel like the Cataclysm Garrosh was appropriate. But you're right, ever since his out-of-left field conquest of Kalimdor he's been mad to look like the villain to both sides, which really isn't fair for a Horde vs Alliance themed expansion.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Rushro View Post
    After years of Varian despising the Orcs as well as the Horde, this isn't just surprising, it's outright out of character.
    Is it? Varian was one of the Kings (alongside Terenas and Antonidas) that decided to spare the orcs after the Second War instead of decimating them. All that rage from WotLK was from the god-awful "twin personality split" plotline from the comics, which was tankfully fixed in the Wolfheart novel.

    Varian has always been level-headed and his outlook was influenced by great men like Anduin Lothar (his defender and a just and honored knight), King Terenas (a religious follower of the Holy Light), Bolvar Fordragon (a great Paladin), his wife and now his son Anduin. It was Onyxia's manipulations that left him unbalanced and full of rage.

    About Garrosh... I don't think it's out of character. The guy has been a dick since WotLK, he was just getting worse over time. Yes, he was depressed in TBC, but after that all he did was get angrier and angrier. It was his development.

  6. #6
    Seriously, Varian had some (very justified, they enslaved him) moments with the Horde after his return, but Blizzard has been spending a lot of time in the novels and short stories showing that he's grown and become a reasonable person again. The scenarios you mentioned are just the game reflecting those out-of-game developments.

  7. #7
    Wolfheart and Varian's short story are where his character gets over his anger issues and become a well rounded individual, and this is shown in both Tides of War and 5.1, long before 5.4's release.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    Is it? Varian was one of the Kings (alongside Terenas and Antonidas) that decided to spare the orcs after the Second War instead of decimating them. All that rage from WotLK was from the god-awful "twin personality split" plotline from the comics, which was tankfully fixed in the Wolfheart novel.

    Varian has always been level-headed and his outlook was influenced by great men like Anduin Lothar (his defender and a just and honored knight), King Terenas (a religious follower of the Holy Light), Bolvar Fordragon (a great Paladin), his wife and now his son Anduin. It was Onyxia's manipulations that left him unbalanced and full of rage.

    About Garrosh... I don't think it's out of character. The guy has been a dick since WotLK, he was just getting worse over time. Yes, he was depressed in TBC, but after that all he did was get angrier and angrier. It was his development.
    pretty much this, varian wasn't really much of a bloodthirsty "ME KILL ORCS" king in lore until they reintroduced him in wrath with major personality changes so that he could be the alliance side of the faction hatred to counter garrosh's daddy issue induced hatred of the alliance. as much as I despise knaak and all of his deeply annoying racial stereotyping (with the exception of broxxigar but then again just about everyone's fine with that character) wolf heart was definitely a very vital novel because it was the point in the lore where blizzard finally decided they CAN NOT portray varian as a complete bloodthirsty vengeance driven tyrant like garrosh (heck that same book has a saturday morning cartoon style moment of garrosh actively THINKING how amazing varian is....yeah....thanks knaak...we get it you hate orcs). without that bit of lore, no matter how out of nowhere the worgen ritual is for lore in general since the nightelves STILL haven't used it to cure their OWN worgen, varian would likely be portrayed as a witless brute still.
    ...at this point it's almost guaranteed that "war in warcraft" is garrosh getting on his incompetent podium to declare yet another group his enemy for the crime of breathing his air, alliance saying this is horde favoritism, and the more....special....yes.. let's go with special... horde players seeing garrosh as a god because he lets them attack the alliance players who keep saying that out being led by a moron is horde favoritism.

  9. #9
    Mechagnome lupii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts
    606
    Quote Originally Posted by Hardstyler01 View Post
    How are you surprised? Garrosh has acted out of character as well, but one might say it's how he acts in MoP, while another might say it's his actions in Cataclysm. Bottom line is, he's out of character as well at some point.

    Blizzard just doesn't take the storylines as serious as the fans, that's why you'll find contradictions if you look closely.
    I can't say that Garrosh is "Out-Of Character" at all. Ever since he was reintroduced in Wrath, he has exhibited large amounts of pride. His arrogance and ego are symptoms of his pride. It makes perfect sense when he was placed in the mantle of warchief that his pride would grow with every successful battle. It became worse when he saw it apparent that the only ones capable of being able to fight and exhibit loyalty were the orcs, thus causing prejudices on the rest of the horde and thus alienation.

    Add to it the fact he can't seem to beat the Alliance completely and the prospect of unbirddled Sha power...and you pretty much have Garrosh.

    ...Seriously, totally not out of character. He's always been mentally deteriorating.
    ---TransAwesome---
    A rainbow a day keeps the gloomies away.

  10. #10
    I don't think Blizzard plans for the war to resume. Everything will probably go back to how they were prior to Cataclysm where there are conflicts between both factions but neither is truly at war with the other.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by lupii View Post
    I can't say that Garrosh is "Out-Of Character" at all. Ever since he was reintroduced in Wrath, he has exhibited large amounts of pride. His arrogance and ego are symptoms of his pride. It makes perfect sense when he was placed in the mantle of warchief that his pride would grow with every successful battle. It became worse when he saw it apparent that the only ones capable of being able to fight and exhibit loyalty were the orcs, thus causing prejudices on the rest of the horde and thus alienation.

    Add to it the fact he can't seem to beat the Alliance completely and the prospect of unbirddled Sha power...and you pretty much have Garrosh.

    ...Seriously, totally not out of character. He's always been mentally deteriorating.
    agreed...really garrosh is an example of a character whose emotions only go through extremes. first was his near suicidal depression in outland where he was sitting back and letting the mag'har die simply because he didn't think he could be a good leader. second was his extreme pride mixxed with rage in wrath where he was trying to live up to his father (who he had only heard the GOOD things about from thrall) but also thought thrall had wronged the orcs to a certain degree due to the complains of some more...whiny ones in orgrimar. then in cata you throw that in along with giving him the power of leadership before he's remotely capable of it, then throw in him misinterpreting any and all advice given to him between wrath and cata (the facepalmworthy attempt to use saurfang's lesson to him before he promptly goes back to smashy smashy, his misuse of cairne's attempted advice of mercy in the shattering). then in mists of pandaria his INCREDIBLY bad judgement in both military and political maneuvering are finally catching up with him driving him to further his withdrawal from any advisers that don't agree with him completely and making him desperate for cheaper and cheaper tricks to gain an advantage.
    ...at this point it's almost guaranteed that "war in warcraft" is garrosh getting on his incompetent podium to declare yet another group his enemy for the crime of breathing his air, alliance saying this is horde favoritism, and the more....special....yes.. let's go with special... horde players seeing garrosh as a god because he lets them attack the alliance players who keep saying that out being led by a moron is horde favoritism.

  12. #12
    the WAR will be over but the factions will still squabble over land, food, resources, pretty much how it was under thrall, battles but not all out war.

  13. #13
    The Horde would have been in shambles after the Darkspear vs Orgimmar conflict, all the Alliance would have to do is clean up the pieces and slowly eliminate the now broken Horde race by race
    Garrosh alone is FAR more powerful than the entirety of the Rebellion combined. He is infused with the power of an old god. Your idea of the Alliance taking back lands and yada yada yada, it's all good on paper, IF the Rebellion's might matched that of Garrosh and his horde. Sadly, it doesn't even come close to it. The only reason the rebellion succeeds is because of the heroes, both alliance and horde heroes, battling Garrosh's elite and then Garrosh himself, alongside some very powerful lore figured such as Jaina and Thrall. If the Alliance, as it is, had done what you suggested and taken back 95% of all horde lands, leaving them purely with mulgore, durotar, tirisfal glades, and the eversong woods/ghostlands, then the Darkspear Rebellion would have been put down quite easily, killed, massacred, and then Garrosh would have directed his war machine, which is also stronger than the Alliance, at Alliance lands and eventually consumed Stormwind. Maybe the Alliance army is stronger than the Horde one, but Garrosh himself is, atm at least, the most powerful lore figure (excluding all the hiding ones such as old gods and titans and whatnot) that we know of. He's stronger than the Alliance lore figures while he's empowered by the old god, and definitely stronger than the Alliance heroes. You could say "oh but 10 alliance characters are gonna go in and kill him", and while that's true from a gameplay perspective, in the actual lore itself it's going to say a combined might of the horde and alliance heroes took down Garrosh.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •