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  1. #461
    Quote Originally Posted by Maleficus View Post
    So you are saying that restriction would NOT decrease the number of babies killed in the womb?
    No. If someone wants an abortion they will get one.
    It has been scientifically confirmed that if Eiffel was green; he would in fact die.

  2. #462
    Quote Originally Posted by Joathen View Post
    I love how 'pro-life' people scream rage against abortion, but inner-city violence and the wars overseas are a non-issue. Never mind the fact that recovered stem cells could lead to life-saving procedures. Once the baby is out though, who really cares about it? The vocal majority of pro-lifers don't champion public education or career assistance, they don't throw their money at groups meant to aid those who do decide to keep their kids despite inadequate means of care; and as soon as those boys are 18 off to East they go, right?
    Agreed completely. I'll take 'Pro Life' seriously when they give a damn about the people who already live. As if it, they are screaming 'Pro Suffering' in my view - they want to limit the freedoms of women, even when her life or sanity is at stake. They demand no exceptions, no compromises, no choice.

    Simply saying 'no' is as effective as it is against drug addicts or the homeless - if you give someone no choice, they will break the law to survive. And then they are punished for it. The true crime is commited by the person enforcing the lack of choice.

    You know what is needed? Better alternatives. Councilling, advice, finacial support systems, better legal protection, or just even more and better orphan programs.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by PaladinBash View Post
    Except that they are. The same way anything can be good or bad depending on the circumstances. In this case I think that these laws really screw over women wanting to safely terminate their pregnancy. They're going to do it whatever you do. If you can't provide a safe and secure place to do it, they will just do it in some unspeakable way.
    My point exactly ^^

  3. #463
    Quote Originally Posted by Herecius View Post
    My bad! It was somebody else in the thread that had actually been doing that.
    No worries, hehe.

  4. #464
    The Insane Reeve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lolercaust View Post
    Can someone who is no longer conscious of life miss it?
    Well that depends on your belief system, but I don't think so. But snuffing out an existing personality is fundamentally different from preventing that personality from ever existing in the first place.
    Well 1, 2, 3, take my hand and come with me
    Because you look so fine
    And I really wanna make you mine

  5. #465
    Abortion is the one area that democrats and old time orthodox christians actually agree.


    It used to be religious doctrine that you're not alive until you take your first breath. The old timey Catholics believed the first breath was when you took on a soul. And if anything before that breath happens, well you weren't a person to begin with because you didn't have a soul.

    This was established by the church to stop the men from inspecting their newborn and if they found some undesirable flaw in the child they threw it off a cliff or to the dogs (literally). And not too far off what certain elements of the democratic party want.



    Politics sure does make for strange bedfellows.

  6. #466
    Titan Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Riddler View Post
    The millions of abortions a year that happen in the nation pretty much prove that - yes - there are lots of people who WANT abortions. Do you think they are all going to get these procedures against their will or something? Obviously that isn't the case. The women who want abortions will still get them. The Texas law doesn't change that.
    And millions of people go to the dentist every day. I don't think very many of them want to either.

    If a video game developer removed tumors from players, they'd whine about nerfing their loss in weight and access to radiation powers. -Cracked.com

  7. #467
    Dreadlord Espe's Avatar
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    OP is a conservative male bigot.

    Big surprise that he is concerned with limiting the choices of women, "people" like him get off on that sort of thing.

    God, Guns, Gays and Gynecology - the Republican 4G Network.
    Just a few examples of typical conservatives. Read at your own risk:
    Quote Originally Posted by The Penguin View Post
    Totally cool with abortion in rape scenarios, but making it widely available or expecting employers to provide it incentivizes women to whore themselves out and creates a nuisance
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    The reason many people are poor is because they DONT save any spare money they have. They blow it on things to entertain them or make them happy

  8. #468
    Pandaren Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Riddler View Post
    Seems like the Abortion Mill industry is starting to lose some of their grip on the minds of America. I think that's good for both women as a whole, and the nation.
    I highly recommend that you read http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/03/he...essa.html?_r=0

  9. #469
    Quote Originally Posted by Reeve View Post
    Well that depends on your belief system, but I don't think so. But snuffing out an existing personality is fundamentally different from preventing that personality from ever existing in the first place.
    I disagree.
    On a fundamental level, the act is the same: you're taking a life. But on another level, there is a big difference between taking the life of a zygote and the life of a 25-year old adult.
    (For the record, I am pro-choice, and I am not playing Devil's Advocate)

  10. #470
    This discussion reminds me of...

    Quote Originally Posted by lakers01 View Post
    Those damn liberal colleges! Can you believe they brainwash people into thinking murder is wrong! And don't get me started with all that critical thinking bullshit!
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells
    You don't get to troll, lie, and treat government like a game for your own purposes and then expect to be treated like a statesmen. Fuck that.

  11. #471
    The Lightbringer eriseis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Espe View Post
    OP is a conservative male bigot.

    Big surprise that he is concerned with limiting the choices of women, "people" like him get off on that sort of thing.

    God, Guns, Gays and Gynecology - the Republican 4G Network.
    Say hello to my new signature.
    Quote Originally Posted by Espe View Post
    God, Guns, Gays and Gynecology - the Republican 4G Network.

  12. #472
    Quote Originally Posted by Arya Stark View Post
    Which is religious horseshit.
    It's not religious to have your own opinion of when you think life starts. Scientifically speaking, it is indeed a living human at conception. Whether you think it's the sort of life that's worth granting more rights to than you would to, say a carrot, is the real issue. It's possible for your opinion on the matter not to be religiously influenced.

  13. #473
    The Insane Reeve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lolercaust View Post
    I disagree.
    On a fundamental level, the act is the same: you're taking a life. But on another level, there is a big difference between taking the life of a zygote and the life of a 25-year old adult.
    (For the record, I am pro-choice, and I am not playing Devil's Advocate)
    Not really. One is taking a life. The other is preventing one. If I were to choose to have a vasectomy and never bear children, that's preventing a person or multiple people from coming into existence. If I go around killing 8 year olds, that's taking lives. They're already sentient human beings. Fetuses aren't. Killing them only prevents them from ever becoming sentient.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by eriseis View Post
    Say hello to my new signature.
    Haven't seen you around for a while. Thought maybe you morphed into Spectral, since your avatars are so similar.
    Well 1, 2, 3, take my hand and come with me
    Because you look so fine
    And I really wanna make you mine

  14. #474
    Quote Originally Posted by Reeve View Post
    Not really. One is taking a life. The other is preventing one. If I were to choose to have a vasectomy and never bear children, that's preventing a person or multiple people from coming into existence. If I go around killing 8 year olds, that's taking lives. They're already sentient human beings. Fetuses aren't. Killing them only prevents them from ever becoming sentient.
    If you consider life to be personhood or sentience, then yes.
    I consider life to begin at conception, when a zygote forms.

  15. #475
    Titan Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smelltheglove View Post
    texas is trying to shut down planned parenthood as well!

    or maybe just putting the church in charge of procreation is the right answer, right?
    Yeah, they proved plenty capable of that in Africa . . . where the AIDS epidemic only got worse because of them.

    If a video game developer removed tumors from players, they'd whine about nerfing their loss in weight and access to radiation powers. -Cracked.com

  16. #476
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Jensen View Post
    Again with the "abortion mill."

    I just keep picturing women, with their legs spread, on a conveyor belt while a machine plucks a baby out of their womb . . .

    Is this what you think abortion providers do Riddler? Seriously? Do you really think ANYONE actually wants an abortion? They get them because they feel they have to, because they don't think they can care for a child. They don't go "gee, I'll have an abortion today! It'll be fun!"

    Gosnell was an evil man, but jesus, stop holding him up like he's some kind of liberal golden standard. HE'S NOT. He's a scumbag criminal who deserves jailtime. He's not an idol that we look up to or a model doctor that we want all abortion providers to behave like. So drop Kermit Gosnell. Stop bringing him up, he was a dirty criminal and an exception to the rule.
    If you can't care for a child and knowingly have sex, what do you expect?

  17. #477
    The Insane Reeve's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lolercaust View Post
    If you consider life to be personhood or sentience, then yes.
    I consider life to begin at conception, when a zygote forms.
    Yup. I have no issues with killing non-person human flesh. I do it all the time on my own body. Every morning when I shave, I take a few living cells off.
    Well 1, 2, 3, take my hand and come with me
    Because you look so fine
    And I really wanna make you mine

  18. #478
    The Lightbringer eriseis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reeve View Post
    Haven't seen you around for a while. Thought maybe you morphed into Spectral, since your avatars are so similar.
    I think Spectral is my twin soul.
    Quote Originally Posted by Espe View Post
    God, Guns, Gays and Gynecology - the Republican 4G Network.

  19. #479
    Quote Originally Posted by Lolercaust View Post
    If you consider life to be personhood or sentience, then yes.
    I consider life to begin at conception, when a zygote forms.
    Why can't you draw nuances between the kinds of lifes? At conception, though technically living, it's distinct lack of any sort of sentience makes it no different from a plant.

  20. #480
    Titan Adam Jensen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FathomFear View Post
    Yeah, we should totally go back to women pulling their own intestines out of their vaginas. That's a great idea!

    If a video game developer removed tumors from players, they'd whine about nerfing their loss in weight and access to radiation powers. -Cracked.com

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