1. #1

    Crowd Control abilities Cooldown should be calculated based on a formula...

    This is how I see cooldown of Crowd control ability should be calculated based on some factors (numbers are to be discussed) :

    1. Base CD : 4sec CD for every 1 sec of "break on damage" CC (8sec for every 1 sec of "unbreakable" CC)
    2. Instant CC : +12sec
    3. Dispellable CC : -5sec
    4. AoE CC : +7sec
    5. Ranged : +3sec
    6. Target still have control: -5sec
    7. Caster lose control of himself (e.g Mind Control): -10sec
    8. Target can take some damage before breaking (not sure about this...)*: +5sec

    Examples :

    Polymorph : (8 x 4) - 5 + 3 => 30sec CD

    Psychic Scream : (8 x 4) + 12 - 5 + 7 => 46sec CD

    Scatter Shot : (4 x 4) + 12 + 3 => 31ec CD

    Hammer of Justice : (5 x 8) + 12 -5 + 3 : 50sec CD

    Hex : (8 x 4) - 5 + 3 - 5 + 5* => 30sec CD


    What's your thoughts about this ? I know, this kind of thing can't happen in this expansion, but taking in account that Blizzard said that there's too much CC in this xpac, I think this could be a way to slow things down in the next xpac instead of putting a Global DR.
    Victory to the Alliance !

  2. #2
    good luck getting poly on 30 sec cd , the mages will set forums on hellfire and since Ghostcrowler is a mage i think is safe to say the mage ccs hardly will get nerfs , but sounds like a nice ideea over all but tbh not gonna happend

  3. #3
    right lets make pvp more complicated. talked to a few people I boosted and they can't even remember what DRs with what and every cd in the opposing team.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by klaps_05 View Post
    right lets make pvp more complicated. talked to a few people I boosted and they can't even remember what DRs with what and every cd in the opposing team.
    How does it make pvp more complicated ? It just increase the CD of almost all CC.
    Victory to the Alliance !

  5. #5
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Fucking up cooldowns on cc big time is not going to fix anything. Take a rogue for example, 44 sec cooldown on sap, 1 minute on kidney shot but only 47 seconds on blind?

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    Fucking up cooldowns on cc big time is not going to fix anything. Take a rogue for example, 44 sec cooldown on sap, 1 minute on kidney shot but only 47 seconds on blind?
    Yea... You can't lump all types of cc into 1 formula, fear and stun and sheep are so different just slapping on some seconds isnt really going to cut it imo.

    CC is a bit excessive in the game, but I dont think they need to necessarily change the cc iteself, more like how can we deal with it. I feel like they should let teammates be more useful in helping avoid/reduce cc. Give everyone an ability called "I got you bro" on a 2 minute cd that breaks OTHERS out of loss of control effects, not yourself. Something along those lines that promotes skillful play but can still reduce cc. I would be more happy with a 1 minute break others out of cc than a 2 minute break self out of cc, promotes more teamwork.

  7. #7
    The problem lies with instant CC mainly. CC such as hex, poly, fear and repentance are fine since they can be avoided, LoSed, interrupted and so on and can still be extremely powerful when they sync well with other classes, that doesn't mean they are overpowered however. Classes like hunters that have nearly pure instant CC with low cooldowns are a problem because it's very difficult to avoid this style of play.

    Rogues CC is melee, it can be countered in some regard. Blind is ranged but not a large range but also has a relatively hefty cooldown, you can still anticipate it and prepare but it's very difficult to do that with a hunter. Point is, in my opinion, if the CC is instant then it has to have a drawback that makes the player think about when and how to use it. Fist of Justice for example, can be dispelled and has a short range despite it being a superb stun. An AS hex is instant but to make it instant again has a long cooldown. Shockwave can be avoided and has a long cooldown compared to Fist and needs melee range. Scatter Trap doesn't have much of a drawback other than you need to be slightly closer to use it. The only significant drawback is that it can be avoided with a pet or teammate but that requires high coordination and teamwork from the other team in order to reduce its effectiveness. That's less effort on the hunters part.

    There's a reason why we haven't seen a straight up ele shaman nerf on damage because they aren't too good in PvE. While there are ways to fix it, it takes a great deal of care and thought when resorting to buffing/nerfing. It's the same reason why you can't also straight up nerf or buff resto shamans as well. Their casted heals and clumped healing is arguably the most powerful out of all the healers atm but they are struggling in raids atm. WoW will always be an imbalanced game because it's nigh impossible to balance when you have split game content (PvE vs PvP).

    SC2 balance team are extremely careful in what they choose to change and for good reason. Through this process they have achieved a nearly perfectly balanced game in the current meta that is still in it's infant stages.

    My point is, by completely revamping the DR system through cooldowns, you can potentially break the game for everybody. The only instance in which you could change the CC formula entirely is through expansion beta. It's a neat idea but it will have positive and potentially massive negative ramifications on the game.

  8. #8
    Its probably easier to narrow the number of DR categories.
    In theory you can now sit in:
    8 sec disorient (poly,ring,hex,trap,sap,rep,..)
    8 sec fear (psyScream,fear,howl,mesmr,blind,..)
    X sec controlled stun (cheap, kidney, hoj, shock, warbringer, demolockstun, capacitor, bash,pounce,..)
    8 sec MC
    6 sec clone
    endless roots silences kicks horros disarms etcetcetcccccccc
    and all over again, and thats without mentioning getting ccd on a DR.

    What they can do:
    -as you mentioned, more cooldown on CC abilities
    -narrowing the number of DR categories
    -removing a number of cc spells
    -.....

    I would probably do a mix of all those.
    Remove a few spells, not everyone has to have 5 cc spells.
    Narrow the DR categories a bit, for instance merge fears and disorients.
    Dont make cc spells spammable, poly/fear/clone and all that on a 10 sec CD doesnt seem outrageous.
    Also, instant cast AOE cc should be a serious cooldown ability.
    Not some 30 sec cd, but 1-2 minutes.
    I would just like to see tactical use of cc again, not spamm cc of all classes the whole time.

    This is all very vague I know.
    Tbh I dont really care HOW they fix it, they just need to fix it.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Niberion View Post
    Fucking up cooldowns on cc big time is not going to fix anything. Take a rogue for example, 44 sec cooldown on sap, 1 minute on kidney shot but only 47 seconds on blind?
    It actually makes perfect sense. CC that hurts more should have a longer cd, there's no question. I'd go so far as to completely remove those bullshit glyphs that remove dots from a target when you CC them too. Blind really should be a lower cd than kidney shot or shockwave or intimidating shout.

    That said, cc was given to certain classes/specs to compensate for weaknesses in other areas. Too bad with MoP if you aren't a class that just doesn't have a weakness (see: warlocks, hunters, dks, rets) you're fucked.

    I think the poster right above me has given the right type of feedback. PvP in this game is completely unbearable and regardless of how hard Blizzard tries, as long as the current state of burst and cc remains the same, PvP activity is going to continue to plummet.
    Last edited by Flaks; 2013-07-11 at 07:36 AM.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    It actually makes perfect sense. CC that hurts more should have a longer cd, there's no question. I'd go so far as to completely remove those bullshit glyphs that remove dots from a target when you CC them too. Blind really should be a lower cd than kidney shot or shockwave or intimidating shout.
    Wait. Did... Did you just say that? rofl

    Regardless though there's no need to change CDs of CCs right now. 30 sec CD on Polymorph? Yeah, that's great except for the fact that it would make Mage CC useless.

    Adding more cooldowns to CC isn't going to solve the current problem, right now the problem is how much you can chain CC together. Feral Druid, Priest, Hunter can CC someone for like 30 seconds straight all instant cast, that's the problem, the CD on their individual skills isn't a big deal. There would be no real benefit to making CC have CDs like that, and it would make some really awkward like the Rogue example above.

  11. #11
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaks View Post
    It actually makes perfect sense. CC that hurts more should have a longer cd, there's no question. I'd go so far as to completely remove those bullshit glyphs that remove dots from a target when you CC them too. Blind really should be a lower cd than kidney shot or shockwave or intimidating shout.

    That said, cc was given to certain classes/specs to compensate for weaknesses in other areas. Too bad with MoP if you aren't a class that just doesn't have a weakness (see: warlocks, hunters, dks, rets) you're fucked.
    Lol...
    So the fact that kidney shot requires combo points, meaning you sacrifice damage doesn't mean anything? Or how about this, an instant ranged cc on a pure melee class should have a shorter cooldown than cc only usable in melee range?

    Also, every class has a weakness.

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