How can anyone stand PvP healing in it's current state?

[jb247]

It's funny that you made this thread, as I just resubbed last week after 10 months away to PvP with some friends. There were 2 reasons I left- hunters in arena ruined the entire experience of PvP, and MOP dailies ruined the entire experience of PvE. I had mixed emotions upon noticing that stampede was not the instant death button it was before (nor Avatar for warriors), because I noticed that hunters were still pretty damn ridiculous in arena.

However, I unsubbed less than 1 week after resubbing for 1 reason: the CC. Every class has multiple forms of CC- stuns, disorients, fears, etc. It's way, way, way (way) too much. The amount of time you actually spend in control of your character is minimal. In a 2v2 or 3v3 arena, this is somewhat mitigated if you run with a dispeller/healer, but for the most part it's ruined the rest of PvP for me.

It's unfortunate because I think WoW PvP could be unbelievably fun and challenging if they cut 75% of the CC out of the game. I know that GC realizes this is a problem, I believe I even read him mention it somewhere. I would actually like control over my character when playing a game where I control a character, I know that may sound odd. It used to be we whined about rogues because they had so much CC, now every class has the rogue level of CC and then some. It's exacerbated the problem.

[Dabrix32]

i really dont like that so many hybrid classes can heal them selves really well, with PvP power increasing healing. its just to much, and then the amount of CC is nuts. literally feels like soon as you go against someone its CC right away, what ever happened to being able to play your class, 1 trinket doesnt seem to do it.

This is another major problem. Some classes like DKs, Locks, and Pally can easily be #3 or 4 on the total healing done for an entire BG even when counting both sides. Let us healers do our damn jobs. Remove every single self heal for all DPS specs. I cant DPS so why the hell do you think you should be entitled to heal?

[Valedus]

You play a disc priest and are complaining about pvp? Whut? Not even trolling, Disc is far and away the best healer right now, unless your comp demands otherwise.

[Spraxle]

As a Holy Paladin healer in BGs (sometimes, but Alliance is so bad I don't que often) and in Arenas. I gotta say... the CC a 2v2 team of Lock and Priest can put out is just nuts. I get I can fear the lock pet, but my fear on that stupid shivara lasts for like 2 sec and her sleep lasts for 8sec. And I can't always keep Hand of Sac up to get out of it for free. Then you add in the two fears the team has, the one stun, oh and the root. The actual uptime you get is just horrid. It wasn't healing intensive for me outside of the Chaos Bolt spam but I couldn't keep my partner on the enemy with the CD on cleanse and HoF.

CC used to be something special. Like you used it and it was good. But now it's just a joke. Whoever has the most CC wins. Unless they're a Blood DK in which case lolselfheals!

[Coraulten]

This is another major problem. Some classes like DKs, Locks, and Pally can easily be #3 or 4 on the total healing done for an entire BG even when counting both sides. Let us healers do our damn jobs. Remove every single self heal for all DPS specs. I cant DPS so why the hell do you think you should be entitled to heal?

I can dps on my priest, monk , paly ,druid, even shaman can drop fire ele and do decent damage.

[Deleted]

Well well that was a serious rant indeed
Ill do my best to match the length of your post !

Now im really not trying to troll or offend you in any way/shape/form here,
but you have to know that both healers CAN easily survive 1-2 dps for a while,
that offhealing is not OP at all, I actually love the direction blizz went with that,
so you are not forced to play healer+dps in 2s.
(perhaps offhealing is very strong for retri, but its only offtarget offhealing, not on himself,
its also one of their only/mayor defensive abilities so its all good, I dont mind..)
The only thing concerning offhealing that I would argue to be OP is HeartOfTheWild in 2s.
I truely do not understand that of all classes you mention warrior as insane offhealing
They have small heals when they are at low HP, thats all.
Warlocks selfhealing is quite a bit stronger, but its also a large cooldown, a defensive ability you have to force like any other...


Now about the healers, I really dont know what you are on about, I have a rDruid, disc and rsham
and I can survive for quite some time with 1-3 dps on me. (ofc this is relative, if i have 2 glad dps on me ill flop over obv)
And about the dispels : im glad they did this change, its not some brainless ability anymore,
it is somethng you have to keep in mind and force the cooldown, for instance you can force a dispel with roots
or somethng and then poly a dps full etc etc)
I always hated the fact that the skill healers needed to have regarding dispells was : spam it on every dispellable.
A small exception : UH dks, if you face a geared and skilled UH DK then its hard to survive for
longer then 2isch minutes, they can and will solo you. But there arent that many good dks out there so dont worry too much

And last but certainly not least, YES YOU ARE RIGHT, the cc in this game is insane.
It should be cut in half imo, nowadays everyone has a stun/silence/fear/whatever.
Also the increase in cc's combined with the (needed) change on dispels
made spam cc even more OP. So yes I do hope they will drastically change this.

On a final note, you said you just subbed again since cata, you have to understand
that alot has changed so you need to get used to everythng again.
Im afraid that most of your concerns are just L2P issues atm but you will get to know them soon enough so hang in there

You also mention your class only has fear fear and more fear.
Well if you are playing warlock than you also have coil/stun/silence/mesmerize/disarm
and if you are playing priest you also have silence/MC/horror/disarm/roots/instaCastAOEFearOnLowCoolDown
so I dont know how you could be complaining on any of those 2 classes.

A quick guess would be that you are back in the game after years,
you play an undergeared disc priest and that you get ganked alot
in pvp because people outgear you and you dont know the game anymore
You should know that Disc priests are actually the strongest healers in pvp atm.

[walkingtall]

If you step back and look at it you see a few things across the board.

1. The new talent system added CC to the game. Spec's that couldn't get certain forms of CC now can. For instance, disc priest and fear beast, resto druid with typhoon, arms warrior with shockwave, etc. They've literally exploded the CC. And when that wasn't enough they just plain gave some classes CC like paladins.

2. Virtually every class has some form of pet or on-use pet. My computer which handled wow just fine for years is now drug to a stop in the rare AV zerg. It also makes it hard in the scrum to even target an enemy player. Can't tab and you can't click the target.

3. I think every class has an interrupt available although not, every, spec.

4. There are more snares in the game.

5. The CC is much easier to apply than ever before. A simple example, hunters. Today it's scatter/trap, before you had to scatter, move and drop the trap. And if that's too hard, they just jump backward, and instant traps.

If you play melee it's like being in a mosh pit. Stun, snare, knock back, stun, disarm, fear, poly.... If you play a healer, it's the same thing, although you actually get less of it, but, you eat it for longer durations and, of course, then there are the silences. Ranged dps is a breath of fresh air all things considered.

There is simply too much CC and it's too easy to apply.

The other thing that I think Blizzard misses is that cool down based abilities are almost always available in a random. You go out blow your cool downs, die, wait a bit to rez, the ability comes off cool down, and there it is, all pretty and ready to be fired. So, effectively, whenever you die it's under the effect of a stun and someone blowing cool downs. It's just a dumb, dumb way to play.

[Schroedinger]

Fun in a Ghostcrawler designed game? LOL, good luck with that.

[ItachiZaku]

I've been getting facerolled by ret's lately, but the other classes... not so much. I'm only in 100% honor gear, but unless focused, I'm fine.

- - - Updated - - -

I cant DPS so why the hell do you think you should be entitled to heal?

I remember speccing into Insect Swarm on my resto druid for a little more pews. I had to in order to take out melee beating on me (with both forms of Thorns). Now, no thorns, no insect swarm.... who am I suppose to kill? I can barely keep myself alive sometimes, let along thing I can get a wrath off.

[Tarien]

Cant say healing is op...healing needs to be where its at because of burst.

No I didn't say that (was it directed at me?). I think the healing numbers themselves are actually fine, I never feel like I cannot keep someone alive (if I am unmolested), which is where it should be.

I agree with everything you just said except for the healing... Imho healing is ridiculous... I went full ascendence popped BL with 2other dps hammering on this priest and I swear the priest did not get below 80% health.

Chances are someone else was healing him too. I can blow some CDs and last 10 seconds or so against some pretty outrageous damage (Pain Suppression + Barrier), but once they're gone I am toast, and depending on the amount of CC I am suffering from and the amount of damage, I may not even last that.

<snip>

Thanks for being understanding and not condescending like most people who think they have an ounce of PvP 'skill'. Oh wait...

well there is your problem, you heal random bgs. No one is going to protect you there or even give a little "thank you"

I do. I compliment good players all the time, and even receive the odd compliment. But then I am someone who's played MMOs for over a decade, back when being nice to people was how you made friends and got into groups. In this day and age you queue and go and if people don't like your attitude/slacking tough shit.

Healers have been overpowered in PvP for far too long. I, for one, and glad they actually have to earn wins now.

I imagine this is because as a DPS you cannot beat a healer 1v1, or even 2v1. But honestly this is the point. If a healer cannot even keep themselves alive, what contribution are they making to the team? They should at the very least be able to keep themselves and one other alive, or two people (assuming 2x DPSers). Maybe two highly skilled DPS could beat a healer with good CC usage and burst. Maybe a priest could survive 3 DPS on him with the same skilled use of cooldowns. That's where healers should be, and to be honest if it were not for the overabundance of CC, that is exactly where they are. I have no issue with the amount of healing throughput I could do, even in average gear.

IThere is simply too much CC and it's too easy to apply.

Snipped most of your post but it hits the nail on the head. This sentence sums it up really. Far too much CC available far too readily. Take the warlock pets sleep for example, the pet can spam this, so it CCs someone potentially for 14s, then it swaps to another target for 14s, and then another target, and then maybe back to the first person. That pet is effectively CCing someone 100% of the time. How is that not OP?

So yeah, CC is massively overpowered right now. Remove CDs from all dispels, lower trinkets to 1min CD.

[Dabrix32]

I can dps on my priest, monk , paly ,druid, even shaman can drop fire ele and do decent damage.

you arent going to kill anything or even pressure someone trying to DPS as a healer. Can I do decent numbers on my Disc priest if I tunnel targets and smite everything for an entire BG. Probably but wasting those globals on Smite would probably be better off casting PoM or PW:S or Pennance. If you dont need to heal and can spend all your time smiting then why not just go Shadow?

But DPS can survive an entire BG w/o heals if they pick their battles right because of how stupid self healing has gotten.

[Skarssen]

CC is what is completely out of control. I would like to see the PVP trinket offer complete CC immunity for ~5 seconds after activation. That would at least give the player a chance to do something before being immediately CC'd again, and would open up the possibility of offensive trinketing. I don' even wear the CC trinket anymore, because it doesn't matter. As soon as I break something I am right back into another form of CC, so might as well wear an offensive trinket instead.

Try playing melee in a large scale BG. If you go more than 5 seconds without being disarmed consider yourself lucky.

[TJ]

Can't wait till those fucking huntards take a huge nerf, probably the best thing coming next patch.

Except they're not taking a huge nerf, their burst is even more stupid?

Yes, PvP is ridiculously stupid right now. Your rant is not the first and it won't be the last. I suggest you stop playing and come back next patch/expansion and see if you like it then.

[Skarssen]

you arent going to kill anything or even pressure someone trying to DPS as a healer. Can I do decent numbers on my Disc priest if I tunnel targets and smite everything for an entire BG. Probably but wasting those globals on Smite would probably be better off casting PoM or PW:S or Pennance. If you dont need to heal and can spend all your time smiting then why not just go Shadow?

But DPS can survive an entire BG w/o heals if they pick their battles right because of how stupid self healing has gotten.

I have the opposite opinion. I would rather everyone have a little bit of healing potential and not have dedicated healers anymore. With ever spec having access to multiple stuns, silences, disarms, fears, incapacitates, etc, might as well give every spec a full toolkit (damage/healing/mitigation, in various combinations). I used to love playing a protection warrior in PVP when they had a lot of control, a lot of survivability, and a limited amount of burst capability. But we can't have tanks in PVP anymore, no. And I love the excuse that tanks are "irritating" in PVP.....as if being in a 10manBG with 4 fucking enemy healers is fun?!?!? Yet somehow Blizzard decided that it isn't the healers that are the problem, its the tanks holding the flag that make things miserable LOL.

[ItachiZaku]

CC is what is completely out of control. I would like to see the PVP trinket offer complete CC immunity for ~5 seconds after activation. That would at least give the player a chance to do something before being immediately CC'd again, and would open up the possibility of offensive trinketing.

That would be nice.

[Lulbalance]

you're all going to love disc priests next patch

[Deleted]

My gametime ended a few weeks ago and i havent been playing any games whatsoever since then.
Just the thought of how retardedly broken pvp is atm makes me sick.

However...

Was out on a drunken adventure yesterday and i came home drunk and nostalgic and added some gametime.

Woke up with a sick hangover and an insane depression because i saw that i added gametime.

5.4 will not fix pvp. If anything its getting more retarded by just glancing at disc priest buffs etc.

Removed the wow-folder and gave the account information to a friend who enjoys pve.

Good luck to all of you who still have hope for pvp balance

[giono06]

I don't think Monk's are OP at all not sure what games you were playing.

[Coraulten]

you arent going to kill anything or even pressure someone trying to DPS as a healer. Can I do decent numbers on my Disc priest if I tunnel targets and smite everything for an entire BG. Probably but wasting those globals on Smite would probably be better off casting PoM or PW:S or Pennance. If you dont need to heal and can spend all your time smiting then why not just go Shadow?

But DPS can survive an entire BG w/o heals if they pick their battles right because of how stupid self healing has gotten.

No, i can actually kill dps on my monk and druid. Priest and paly can somewhat pressure but not really land a kill. A Healer can survive an entire bg not even picking their battles right so whats your point? If you can't out dps a hybrids heals as a dps its more of a personal problem.

[Nopkplease]

Not to compare games but when I heal in Rift or SW:ToR I get many tells or have people say in BG chat "Hey nice heals" I do have people that peel for me. I dont know why its different in WoW. Its not like other games have better players. I mean isnt it common sense to protect your healers?

I would think those other games appeal to your more die-hard actual gamers where as wow is being catered and marketed to more casual gamers. There just seems to be a mindset with everyone playing WoW that "I pay my 15 dollars a month so I'll do what I want and screw everyone else" attitude.

Back in Vanilla when it took a long time to get to 60 and before you could server hop, faction change, name change, do x-realm battlegrounds, do dungeon finder queues, do LFR it seemed like people actually were more decent to each other because your reputation actually mattered and you actually had to work with people or you could never accomplish anything.