Outrage over "Don't be that girl" Posters in Edmonton.

[nalle]

Okay Okay.

If I've understood this correctly...

A guy, who has a girlfriend, goes out drinking with his friends. He get's shitfaced. A girls starts talking to him, after a while she ask him if he wants to come back to her place, the guy says yes. They have sex. The guy wakes up the morning after, realizing what hes done.

In this scenario the guy can legally call it rape and the woman will then be sent to prison for a few years for raping him. Correct? No

This will never happen and everyone would laugh in the guys face as he tries to make his case.

If the tables were turned and it was in fact a woman in the mans place, the guy would get crucified and be called a rapist for the rest of his life if he does not in fact go straight to jail.


I know that this is a very specific scenario and that most cases doesn't go about like this, but I do not think that the case I presented is that unusual either. Just less heard of since it doesn't get reported as much. Same with any kind of domestic violence, physical or psychological.



But is this scenario, where a guy is taken advantage of while he is in no state to make a conscious decision, should it be called rape? If not then it shouldn't the other way around either, but yet it does, IF the woman says it was rape.

Just this one scenario shows that the balance in the view on rape is not centered. Should it be? Yes. Is it? No, and will probably not be for a very long time.

[Phookah]

I rather like the first "don't be that girl" poster.
All my life I've heard people (Not just women) pretend like because they drank, anything that happened the previous night isn't their own fault, and no I'm not talking about rape.
Too often after a night of drinking I've heard one (or more) of my friends (girls or guys) go "What the hell happened?" Well, you got angry and got into a fight with this person, you broke your phone, then you broke up with your boyfriend/girlfriend. "Oh shit... Oh well I was drunk shit happens." Then they proceed to apologize to people with the line of "I was really drunk, sorry" and more often then not all is forgiven.
I seem to have run off on a tangent...
TL;DR: Don't use alcohol as an excuse for stupid behavior.

[josykay]

Those would have to be the least informed feminists of our generation haha.

Hm, isn't that the very same thing, some man claim about female victims?

-You wear shirt skirts, tanktop or what ever. You dress your self sexy. So you clearly show, you want to have sex.
- You did not clearly say no.


Btw:
In Germany a 31 years old, who raped a 15 years old girl was acquitted, because according to the (female!) judge, saying "No i don't want that" would not be a clear "No". In addition the judge claimed, that the girl did not attempt to run away, so there wouldn't be any reason to convict him for rape.

[gamingmuscle]

Or, get this chuck. Women are allowed in this political air to cry rape on almost anything, hell, find a feminist tumblr, the word rape loses all meaning.

I don't really care that some no name idiot on tumblr is trying to twist something into something it is not. Cause shit like that is happening all the time, in both directions...and it's quite obvious that it's just stupid BS, and it quickly called as such. Are there idiots that will buy into it tho? You betcha.

Rape is serious sexual assault, and it happens to anyone.

if I grope a girls ass while drunk in the club, I am not raping her, just like the girl groping my ass is not raping me.

Yes sexual assault happens both ways. I've been sexually assaulted by a female employer. Not a fun experience.

Now I do feel the campaign would have been better as a 2 or 3 poster campaign describing more than just the statistically most likely victim.

[Bananarez]

I honestly don't understand this thread anymore. These posters are fine. If I can't as a man brush off any responsibility after a drop of beer, than a woman shouldn't be able to either. The only people this punishes is stupid college age feminist hypocrites who want to get plastered and fuck every guy in sight and then play it off as a gangrape to save face with her moronic batshit insane friends. Didn't that happen with some La Crosse team that ended up not getting charged?

[Deleted]

Well, according to alot of feminists, men can't be raped period.

Most just assume "you wanted it anyway"

A very few reasonable ones would say "Yes, but probably not"

I assume that's what most men assume when girls decide to be stupid enough to live on the verge on losing consciousness, let alone the current generation when partying is the normal thing to do as a teenager that barely can function correctly.

Most people in this thread are really overreacting, there's one person that picks one side and the majority teams up against him/her. It's shown all the time how the norm around here and most other websites can be manipulated by a picture or a video.

All i have to say about the issue is that drinking is really dumb when you aren't mature enough to realize your surroundings and the one within you.

[KayossZero]

Don't try and convince any Draenei-avatared misogynists of that.

I'd say between several of your posts and from others you're doing a great job of making a lot of MRA's look like buffoons all on your own.

Feminism exists because it has to exist. It doesn't matter if we're talking about FGM in disgusting countries or the wage pay gap in first world ones.

[Krastyn]

Feminism exists because it has to exist. It doesn't matter if we're talking about FGM in disgusting countries or the wage pay gap in first world ones.

Because you have statistical evidence to show that the wage pay gap is due to discrimination?

[Cybran]

this is called moving the goalposts because the facts dont support you. its well known that the terms are varied.
so really you have no idea what you're talking about. but if you want to discuss sexual crimes as a whole, do so instead of bringing them up in a discussion about rape.

I am not the one moving goal posts. You made a false statement that 1% of rapes are committed by women. I tried to explain why rape statistics are not accurate (rape in most cases only covers women) and that realistically the number of sexual crimes committed by women is much higher (estimated around 10-11%) and why these crimes go unreported and unpunished (because of patriarchy, which views women as incapable of such crimes and better parents). Instead of commenting on that you are acting as what I said doesn't matter, because "this is a discussion about rape". Well, as long as you perpetuate the narrow definition of rape you are also perpetuating patriarchy and double standards.

and as a whole, the perpetrators are still overwhelmingly male, as your own (one) statistic shows.

If the estimates in the article are correct 1 in 9 perpetrator of sexual crime is female which far more realistic than 1 in 100 as you suggested.

[Maios]

I don't think anyone wants to justify false accusations any more than people want to justify rape. The problem with the MRA movement is that it does ignore the reality that men are the vast majority of sexual offenders. This is fact. This fact isn't because the system is rigged against men. We can go into all kinds of discussion about "why", but that's not the point of the posters. The poster with the drunk women is not making any claims about woman on man violence, and it's insulting and counterproductive to try to dismiss an argument with "yea, well they do it too!!"

On a personal note, I have witnessed all sorts of discussion in all male settings that nearly made me want to vomit. I always brushed it off as "surely, nobody would really think that way," but the reality is that some people do. As long as men are incapable of looking at a woman without talking about how she looks, how big her boobs are, what they'd like to see her lips on, whether she's single, and thinking about whether they can get their number, or ranking her with a number, then there will be a problem with women being victimized by men. The fact that there is a very small set of inverse victimization, still doesn't change the majority of cases.

Of course, false accusation can also be addressed because there's room to solve both problems. But solving false accusations doesn't involve trivializing real cases of rape. Specifically in this case, the poster is absolutely correct: if she's past out, don't grope, disrobe or stick anything in her body. Period.

[starlord]

I am not the one moving goal posts. You made a false statement that 1% of rapes are committed by women. I tried to explain why rape statistics are not accurate (rape in most cases only covers women) and that realistically the number of sexual crimes committed by women is much higher (estimated around 10-11%) and why these crimes go unreported and unpunished (because of patriarchy, which views women as incapable of such crimes and better parents). Instead of commenting on that you are acting as what I said doesn't matter, because "this is a discussion about rape". Well, as long as you perpetuate the narrow definition of rape you are also perpetuating patriarchy and double standards.


If the estimates in the article are correct 1 in 9 perpetrator of sexual crime is female which far more realistic than 1 in 100 as you suggested.

so basically, the legal terms just arent broad enough for you. thats too bad.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Personally, the posters don't offend me but I think they are stupid.

[Sorrior]

Here is a question...Why do we even need feminists OR MRAs anymore?

Why can't they work together..BOTH groups have valid complaints but all they wind up doing is offending/pushing the other group further away.

It's funny because I used to have fairly different views and yes support feminism....But the types of feminists I have met both IRL and online have actually made me slightly misogynistic and pushed me AWAY from theur movement because they often speak in such broad strokes that I feel implicated...

And I am guessing MRAs do the same thing...So why can't we have a movement that mixes both movements messages?

[Cybran]

so basically, the legal terms just arent broad enough for you. thats too bad.

When you limit the definition to "forceful vaginal penetration" you are skewing the numbers against males.

Parallel data concerning adolescent sex offenders indicate that females are responsible for 3% of forcible rape cases and 5% of other violent sex offenses – and 19% of non-violent sex offenses – handled by the juvenile courts annually (Snyder & Sickmund, 2006).

The data that you provided supports this.

[starlord]

When you limit the definition to "forceful vaginal penetration" you are skewing the numbers against males.

The data that you provided supports this.

i guess if that was the case, but its not. as you know.

but hey, if it will make you happy we can include all others too.
94% male, 6% female.

does that support your views enough?

[josykay]

I am just wondering, how should a completly politically correct poster look like?

- We can not show a female, because that "indicates" only males are rapists.
- We can however not show a male, because first of all the numbers of raping males are significantly higher, and it would indicate that only females rape.
- In addition wie can not show a guy and a girl because there are even same sex rapes.
- But we can not show people of the same sex because there are heterosexuell rpists.
- We somehow have to include transgender peolpe as well, because those people can also rape and are raped...
- What about the intersexual people? They can commit those crimes too. And can of course be the victims...

Oh and of course we have to include all races, because white rape black, black rape whites and so on.

The whole thing is a complete overraction by MRA, who are looking for "discrimination" at those pictures. Even if there is none... We got a 64 pages thread just because some male feel discriminated, even if they are not. It does not matter, if a girl is unable to answer or a guy, or even a transgender, a black, white, asian.. it does not matter. The poster clearly says "No answer does not mean yes". Thats all.
I bet, even if the last sencence would be "Don't be that PERSON" there would still be some people, who feel insulted, because the depictured victim is a female, so the poster does not show, that there are male victims.

[Deleted]

i guess if that was the case, but its not. as you know.

but hey, if it will make you happy we can include all others too.
94% male, 6% female.

does that support your views enough?

In December 2011, FBI Director Robert S. Mueller, III, approved revisions to the Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Program’s 80-year-old definition of rape.
previously it read;“the carnal knowledge of a female forcibly and against her will”
your stats came from a source citing FBI in 2006
and you are surprised the stats are skewed?, oh wait you are not because you still think they are valid "i guess if that was the case, but its not. as you know."
they changed it in 2011 to; “Penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim.”
just so we are both arguing the same thing, 2006 is before 2011.

oh and Please define; being in a mentally impaired state means a person cannot legally consent to sex.
also if i have sex with a girl and i´m just as drunk as her (thus qualifying for the special protection you have previously asserted) i cant consent to have sex with her either, I.E i may be raping her but since im drunk i cant actually consent to sex, which makes the argument not about consent but who was the more active participant or?

[Pebble]

Look at the campaign's website, they're specifically targeting MEN between the ages of 18 and 25. The poster is 100% discriminating.

A PROPER rape prevention campaign would depict many different types of people in these situations, but they don't, they have 5+ DIFFERENT situations ALL depicting men as the rapist. ALL depicting women as the victim.

[Lolretadin]

Don't try and convince any Draenei-avatared misogynists of that.

I know I tried to; shit son, I even had links to various websites proving points that there are issues with these shitty, one sided, statistics that people keep spouting.

[Deleted]

Look at the campaign's website, they're specifically targeting MEN between the ages of 18 and 25. The poster is 100% discriminating.

A PROPER rape prevention campaign would depict many different types of people in these situations, but they don't, they have 5+ DIFFERENT situations ALL depicting men as the rapist. ALL depicting women as the victim.

Not all of them, one or two feature gay men and the like.

So they're open to both *traditional rape* so to speak, and the untouched subject - male on male and female on female rape.

I guess they just didn't view the figures as justification to make a poster for female on male rape (Even if it does rarely occur).