1. #1

    [Prot Pally] Came back from a long break, need help with gear and priorities!

    Hello fellow Prots!
    To start off I d like to tell you guys that I recently came back from a very long break and just got back into tanking
    This is my character http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Apollwn/simple on kazzak EU Horde!
    I know my major glyphs are not correct and I will put battle healer etc in due time but what I m more worried about is before starting to raid again on Normal to maximize my gear output!
    After reading the forums for a while I see that a haste build is much more effective for paladin tanks than an avoidance build! They also say you need to be hit and exp capped! My problem is that no matter how I reforge I can't seem to have enough space to reforge or even gem differently in order to maximize my haste with my current gear leaving me with very little haste and although hit capped, not exp capped :/ (sitting at 13.47)
    Is it because I m undergeared or have I not gemmed correctly?
    Should I value haste over expertise?
    Any advice is welcome and sorry for the noobish post! :/
    Also how much dps should I be pulling as a tank in boss fights? With my current gear I m pulling anywhere from 42 to 55k (a bit more or a bit less depending on battle)
    Thank you all in advance

  2. #2
    Gearing haste over expertise cap is a matter of choice. You are sitting at 13.47 expertise so that is not bad.

    If you chose going for haste, you will recieve more dps, hps, holy power and absorbs from sacred shield. If you chose to go for expertise hard cap over haste, you gain the benefit of never missing a crusader strike/hotr so you do not gain holy power from it. Haste will still grant you more holy power on average however. Judgment and GC procs always give holy power (at hit cap) so they are of no concern.

    Some people prefer the reliability of capping expertise, others prefer the throughput of haste. If you plan your holy power usage wisely the reliablity of being below expertise cap do not matter.


    How much dps you should pull on a boss highly depends on the fight, and how you tank it. Vengeance palys a huge role in our dps, so the tank that spends more time on boss deals higher damage.

    For example, while farming tortos normal, my dps has ranged from 240k to 510k, and that had nothing to do with me playing better or worse, rather the opposite. The time I did 510k was simply because we failed, people died. After people died, I also failed with a SotR on a snapping bite causing bats to heal themselves, suddenly we had 30 bats pounding me, and since I play tortos with focused shield and execution sentence (max dps on tortos), 80% of that dps was on Tortos himself. My vengeance just shot through to roof through a cascade of fails, so sometimes doing more dps is not a result of playing better.

    Same goes for a fight like Horridon, I found it very easy to consistantly do 300k+ dps on normal when our dps was bad, but once our dpsers got better geared and did more dps, I could barely break 200k simply because the boss died to fast.

    So there is not really a good answer to how much dps you should pull on a boss. If you have questions about a specific boss fight, and possibly can provide logs I would be able to help you more.

    Looking over your gear, you should consider changing your meta gem either to the one giving armor, spell damage reduction or critical damage.
    You are missing engineer tinkers.
    I would suggest switching to dancing steel (10man/lfr) or windsong (if you do not want to waste money or 25 man).

    You are using a very spread color of gems, you can use hybrids to get those socket bonuses. Your gemming is not the prettiest I have seen, but it is not that bad. You could optimise it a bit more if you wish to spend cash on it, but it is far better than the majority of people I have seen asking for help.

    Your vial of dragonsblood trinket is literally the worst trinket of this entire expansion, you should seek to replace it as soon as possible. There are green trinkets superior to it.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  3. #3
    Post in the fix my tanking thread but off the bat drop the stam trink for a ghost iron dragonling with haste / exp / mastery. Yeah its 450ilevel but its so much better.

    Dps depends on vengeance you gain from damage you take. All you can do is make sure you execute your rotation properly.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Gearing haste over expertise cap is a matter of choice. You are sitting at 13.47 expertise so that is not bad.

    If you chose going for haste, you will recieve more dps, hps, holy power and absorbs from sacred shield. If you chose to go for expertise hard cap over haste, you gain the benefit of never missing a crusader strike/hotr so you do not gain holy power from it. Haste will still grant you more holy power on average however. Judgment and GC procs always give holy power (at hit cap) so they are of no concern.

    Some people prefer the reliability of capping expertise, others prefer the throughput of haste. If you plan your holy power usage wisely the reliablity of being below expertise cap do not matter.


    How much dps you should pull on a boss highly depends on the fight, and how you tank it. Vengeance palys a huge role in our dps, so the tank that spends more time on boss deals higher damage.

    For example, while farming tortos normal, my dps has ranged from 240k to 510k, and that had nothing to do with me playing better or worse, rather the opposite. The time I did 510k was simply because we failed, people died. After people died, I also failed with a SotR on a snapping bite causing bats to heal themselves, suddenly we had 30 bats pounding me, and since I play tortos with focused shield and execution sentence (max dps on tortos), 80% of that dps was on Tortos himself. My vengeance just shot through to roof through a cascade of fails, so sometimes doing more dps is not a result of playing better.

    Same goes for a fight like Horridon, I found it very easy to consistantly do 300k+ dps on normal when our dps was bad, but once our dpsers got better geared and did more dps, I could barely break 200k simply because the boss died to fast.

    So there is not really a good answer to how much dps you should pull on a boss. If you have questions about a specific boss fight, and possibly can provide logs I would be able to help you more.

    Looking over your gear, you should consider changing your meta gem either to the one giving armor, spell damage reduction or critical damage.
    You are missing engineer tinkers.
    I would suggest switching to dancing steel (10man/lfr) or windsong (if you do not want to waste money or 25 man).

    You are using a very spread color of gems, you can use hybrids to get those socket bonuses. Your gemming is not the prettiest I have seen, but it is not that bad. You could optimise it a bit more if you wish to spend cash on it, but it is far better than the majority of people I have seen asking for help.

    Your vial of dragonsblood trinket is literally the worst trinket of this entire expansion, you should seek to replace it as soon as possible. There are green trinkets superior to it.
    That was a very constructive post and I m very thankful for it
    Damn.... after seeing that dps I feel insanely noobish right now
    I mean other than MV normal up to elegon I havent had the time to raid anything before taking the long break and in LFR with the current gear and proper rotation execution I cant seem to get past 55k
    Might just be LFR and gear though I dont know!

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by sahlamuhla View Post
    That was a very constructive post and I m very thankful for it
    Damn.... after seeing that dps I feel insanely noobish right now
    I mean other than MV normal up to elegon I havent had the time to raid anything before taking the long break and in LFR with the current gear and proper rotation execution I cant seem to get past 55k
    Might just be LFR and gear though I dont know!
    On some fights in LFR you will be doing lower than normals, and on some you will be doing higher than normal (10 mans).

    A lot of fights in MSV had very low dps for us, like gara'jal, I cant remember the exact numbers but think we were pulling around 50-60k there or something like that.

    Same goes for feng, even though you could probably pull closer to 90k.

    So dont feel boggled by the numbers if you have not stepped foot much into T15, since they are really a lot higher than they were in T14. I had like 160k dps on Elegon, and that was a fight that involved damage done increase. 160k is what I expect on an average fight nowadays without the damage increase.

    Those fights that I mentioned was also the fights in T15 where you pull absurd dps. On more regular single target fights like durumu I would only do around 140k during the first week of normal progress (without meta gem), same as Ji-Kun around 120-130k. Seeing 200k+ dps in 10 man, especially normal only happens when the fights involves some kind of damage increase or a ton of adds, or ways to completely abuse vengeance.

    That said, there is a lot of skill involved in tanking, and not a lot of tanks pull their maximum numbers. You would be suprised how high numbers you have the capability of pulling, so always aim to improve yourself. Still, your first goal is of course to survive and keep aggro on everything you should keep aggro on. Though surviving is kinda easy in T15 unless you are very undergeared. So once you got the surviving part done, the only thing left is to work on your dps really.
    Last edited by Firefly33; 2013-07-11 at 02:11 PM.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    On some fights in LFR you will be doing lower than normals, and on some you will be doing higher than normal (10 mans).

    A lot of fights in MSV had very low dps for us, like gara'jal, I cant remember the exact numbers but think we were pulling around 50-60k there or something like that.

    Same goes for feng, even though you could probably pull closer to 90k.

    So dont feel boggled by the numbers if you have not stepped foot much into T15, since they are really a lot higher than they were in T14. I had like 160k dps on Elegon, and that was a fight that involved damage done increase. 160k is what I expect on an average fight nowadays without the damage increase.

    Those fights that I mentioned was also the fights in T15 where you pull absurd dps. On more regular single target fights like durumu I would only do around 140k during the first week of normal progress (without meta gem), same as Ji-Kun around 120-130k. Seeing 200k+ dps in 10 man, especially normal only happens when the fights involves some kind of damage increase or a ton of adds, or ways to completely abuse vengeance.

    That said, there is a lot of skill involved in tanking, and not a lot of tanks pull their maximum numbers. You would be suprised how high numbers you have the capability of pulling, so always aim to improve yourself. Still, your first goal is of course to survive and keep aggro on everything you should keep aggro on. Though surviving is kinda easy in T15 unless you are very undergeared. So once you got the surviving part done, the only thing left is to work on your dps really.
    Would you mind giving me your armory and tell me how you do your rotation?
    Just want to see how you gem etc etc and what you do different from me so I can improve further!

  7. #7
    Well, I have taken a raiding hiatus so do not know if I should be your role model. Though if you so wish I can PM you details. I would rather suggest you to check the armory of some other people on this forum however.

    As for the rotation, I just mash the buttons. Not much more too it. Try to keep the 3-step rotation with CS-J-X CS-X-J CS-X-X where X are your fillers should be your basic. I sometimes alter that to gain higher dps, but that is not something I would advice you to do.

    The most important thing however is simply to press your buttons fast. Never spend a global not hitting something. The biggest fault most paladin tanks do is simply not pressing their buttons fast enough, so practice doing your rotation as fast as possible without any downtime.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    The most important thing however is simply to press your buttons fast. Never spend a global not hitting something. The biggest fault most paladin tanks do is simply not pressing their buttons fast enough, so practice doing your rotation as fast as possible without any downtime.
    This is so important. The faster you hit your buttons, the higher your uptimes on SotR will be, because you're going to generate more Holy Power.



  9. #9
    On that note, have you guys converted over to "on key press" over "on key release"? I ended up doing some Brawler's Guild last night, and had to crank up the mouse speed to do Hexos, so I just thought about this change as well.

    I'm considering it, but sometimes I like to hold an ability if the situation requires. May be able to eek out a few more ms of reaction time with the swap though.

    Also: HI PD! I saw you in the other thread, but forgot to post back
    Last edited by Nairobi; 2013-07-11 at 03:29 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    On that note, have you guys converted over to "on key press" over "on key release"? I ended up doing some Brawler's Guild last night, and had to crank up the mouse speed to do Hexos, so I just thought about this change as well.

    I'm considering it, but sometimes I like to hold an ability if the situation requires. May be able to eek out a few more ms of reaction time with the swap though.
    I have used snowfallkeypress as long as that addon existed. I guess it is not as important now, but back in WotLK it was very important before they inserted the ability queue system.

    Now I do not really know how important it is, but I always played with it and I always will.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  11. #11
    Ty all again (specialy Firefly <3) for the constructive posts and help
    I ll use all the info to try and improve myself!

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