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  1. #161
    I would put her on par with Archimonde or Kil'Jaedan.

  2. #162
    Scarab Lord Kathandira's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarolib2 View Post
    The Old God's are obviously taken from H.P. Lovecraft's writing, and with so many similar details, we can probably look to his stories for hints as to what some of this stuff means.

    Nya'lotha is a perfect match, in terms of how its been mentioned thus far, for the sunken city of R'lyeh. R'lyeh was a massive stone city of strange proportions and architecture that literally sunk to the bottom of the Baltic Sea eons before man walked the earth. It was actually the resting place of Cthulhu (who seems more comparable to N'zoth than C'thun in every way, despite the name, from what we know so far), and he slept there for eons between periodically emerging to stir up chaos. The names they've chosen for the Old God's in WoW has thrown the story off a bit, but they've been keeping with a lot of similar ideas. Similarly, the "black goat with seven eyes" quote from the puzzle box was a spin off of the "black goat with a thousand young", a line used to describe another Old God, Shub-Niggurath. The fact that all of the other lines from puzzle box seem to involve N'Zoth implied that it was describing him, but the two don't necessarily have to be linked.

    As a side note with some speculation, the thought of Elune being an Old God is actually very interesting. One of the most powerful and well known Lovecraftian Old God's was Nyarlathotep. His primary residence was the moon; he was extremely deceptive, and would entrance humans with shows of light and magic that they thought were miracles. Seems like a decent comparison.
    So that would mean that the Night Elves have been fooled this entire time. But for what cause? The priestesses of Elune would have been praying to, and idolizing an old god. At the moment they seem to be untouched by any sort of corruption. Would he have inserted some sort of presence in them similar to how Medivh has/had Sargeres in him? Would he just be biding his time until he needs the Nightelves as his own army to turn against their allies?

    Also, it is very easy to connect Lovecrafian lore to that of the Old Gods, but that would also mean that Azeroth is not what it seems..Could be the reason that Sargeres and others are so damn interested in Azeroth and it's inhabitants. Yeah, those on Azeroth have great potential for great power. But are we so rare in the universe? Or is that Azeroth itself is what they are after?

  3. #163
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
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    are you kididng? the night elves are all totally corrupt and evil
    just look at how purple they all are!

  4. #164
    Scarab Lord Kathandira's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grubjuice View Post
    are you kididng? the night elves are all totally corrupt and evil
    just look at how purple they all are!
    I'm gonna graaappeee you in the mouth!! #twkyk

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathandira View Post
    So that would mean that the Night Elves have been fooled this entire time. But for what cause? The priestesses of Elune would have been praying to, and idolizing an old god. At the moment they seem to be untouched by any sort of corruption. Would he have inserted some sort of presence in them similar to how Medivh has/had Sargeres in him? Would he just be biding his time until he needs the Nightelves as his own army to turn against their allies?

    Also, it is very easy to connect Lovecrafian lore to that of the Old Gods, but that would also mean that Azeroth is not what it seems..Could be the reason that Sargeres and others are so damn interested in Azeroth and it's inhabitants. Yeah, those on Azeroth have great potential for great power. But are we so rare in the universe? Or is that Azeroth itself is what they are after?
    Even if Elune is an old god, it still doesn't mean NE have been fooled because all old god may not be evil.

  6. #166
    Scarab Lord Kathandira's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildmoon View Post
    Even if Elune is an old god, it still doesn't mean NE have been fooled because all old god may not be evil.
    So far we have no reason to believe that any of the Old Gods have good intentions. Each we have met have been corrupter or destroyers. Although, we also have not seen all of the Old Gods, or even have heard about them. We have all but 3 which are confirmed to exist. C'thun, N'zoth and Yogg. If I am correct, there are 5.

    I just returned to WoW a few days ago, left at the end of Cata. Has another Old God been revealed? I checked Wowwiki and didn't see anything in a quick glimpse.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quoted from Wowwiki

    The Number of Old Gods

    Depending on the source, three, four, or five Old Gods lie imprisoned. Some of these sources seem to imply that these numbers were the limit to the number of Old Gods. The roleplaying game seems to imply that there were more than five Old Gods, including those imprisoned or killed.

    The Warcraft III manual states that five Old Gods were chained beneath the world.
    The Pantheon shattered the Old Gods' citadels and chained the five evil gods far beneath the surface of the world. Source: [12][13]
    According to the War of the Ancients Trilogy, there are three Old Gods still living, imprisoned and chained by the Titans deep beneath the surface of Azeroth. There may be more however, these three are indicated to have formed some sort of alliance in order to escape their imprisonment.[4]
    According to "The Old Gods and the Ordering of Azeroth", four Old Gods were imprisoned beneath the world. This could perhaps be reconciled with the War of the Ancients trilogy if it were taken to include the fallen C'Thun in the count of the imprisoned Gods. This is however unlikely as C'thun was believed dead and not imprisoned. Note that the version of this chapter presented in the story section of the official site does not reference the number of Old Gods.[14]
    "There are more Old Gods than just the ones trapped on Azeroth. It takes a lot for them to become manifested on a physical plane, however."[15]

    In the Burning Crusade expansion, a group of Arakkoa known as the Dark Conclave attempted to summon an entity described as an "ancient and powerful evil" into Outland. It is nearly identical in appearance to the first named Old God, C'Thun.


    So we have 2 more to yet be revealed. Or more if, "There are more Old Gods than just the ones trapped on Azeroth. It takes a lot for them to become manifested on a physical plane, however." is true

    edit: also you could be right if the above is true, that there are more who are not chained to Azeroth. Elune could be an Old God who does not exist directly on Azeroth. Perhaps the reference to Nyarlathotep is not so far off. Elune could indeed reside on the moon and away from the corruption of her Old God brethren. She would be outnumbered after all, and if they can corrupt her, she could assist them in breaking free of their chains.

    Would make sense as she is referred to as the Moon Goddess. She has been even speculated to be the moon itself. However, I lean more towards what you mention, that she is a reference to Nyarlathotep and just lives on the moon. Eh, sounds kinda boring, but it's better than getting corrupted by the other Old Gods.
    Last edited by Kathandira; 2013-07-12 at 05:30 PM.

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Kathandira View Post
    So far we have no reason to believe that any of the Old Gods have good intentions. Each we have met have been corrupter or destroyers. Although, we also have not seen all of the Old Gods, or even have heard about them. We have all but 3 which are confirmed to exist. C'thun, N'zoth and Yogg. If I am correct, there are 5.

    I just returned to WoW a few days ago, left at the end of Cata. Has another Old God been revealed? I checked Wowwiki and didn't see anything in a quick glimpse.
    There's Y'shaarj, who just happens to have 7 heads. The quote provided by Tarolib2: "The goat with the seven heads" probably refers to this Old God.

    You'd probably want to use wowpedia over wowwiki, it seems to be more reliable and up to date.
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  8. #168
    Scarab Lord Kathandira's Avatar
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    I actually just cross referenced the two. And came up with this.


    Wowwiki:
    When the Titans brought order to Azeroth, they slew a seven-headed Old God named Y'Shaarj. However, Y'shaarj's "last, terrible breath" cursed Pandaria with the shadowy aspects of the fallen Old God, the sha. For reasons unknown, the sha lay dormant within Pandaria for many thousands of years

    Wowpedia:
    The Master's Glaive will be transformed by the Twilight Hammer into a massive excavation site. Their excavations have revealed that the nautilus-like object was actually the skull and upper-torso of a massive minion of the Old Gods named Soggoth the Slitherer. A similiar site exists in Twilight Highlands, known as the Husk of Sor'getha.

    A mural from Klaxxi'vess depicting a creature similar to Soggoth the Slitherer's head. It may be one of Y'Shaarj's seven heads.

    But the problem is that Y'Shaarj was slain by the Titans. Not sure if it was the same ol, "blah blah we only killed the physical form...blah blah he still lives trapped beneath the surface of Azeroth..."

    I'm pretty sure, when a Titan kills an Old God, it stays dead. The only reason 5 remained, was because they were ingrained into Azeroth and destroying them would also destroy Azeroth as well. Which continually makes me believe that it is not the inhabitants of Azeroth which are valuable, but Azeroth itself. Why else would it get intergalactic attention as much as it has.

  9. #169
    Y'shaarj was indeed slain, and he's kinda dead. In a way. His heart remains and is in the control of Garrosh. While it's only the heart, it still whispers creepily like anything Old God-related we've come across.

    There was a thread a while ago where someone came up with a theory: That Azeroth itself might be a titan prototype. That titans are crafted out of planets. It seems quite ridiculous but he laid up the theory in a way that made it seem very plausable. I can't remember much of it but it had a lot to do with what Wrathion says about "We have fallen, we must rebuild the final Titan".
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  10. #170
    Non titan non old god character? I'd have to give it to Kiljaden, but she'd probably be second.

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by Golden Yak View Post
    Well said OP - Azshara was crazy powerful 10,000 years ago and has been growing her power in hiding since then. She'd make a worthy expansion final boss.

    I'm kinda hoping we face her in a Great Seas expansion first, then take N'Zoth down in an Emerald Dream expansion.



    The title refers to characters that are neither Titans nor Old Gods - Old God empowered entities still count.
    Don't think we'll ever take down Nzoth, he holds the entire planet together, destroying him would cause great problems.

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by Badhairday View Post
    There's Y'shaarj, who just happens to have 7 heads. The quote provided by Tarolib2: "The goat with the seven heads" probably refers to this Old God.

    You'd probably want to use wowpedia over wowwiki, it seems to be more reliable and up to date.
    Goat with seven eyes, actually. Though it's obviously some kind of metaphor, though it may still retain to Y'Shaarj. also notably, Y'shaarj's lines in 5.4 match up with hints about N'zoth and the Naga from Yogg-Saron's Puzzle Box. Especially the part about Ny'alotha.
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  13. #173
    As far as I remember from the old quests in vanilla and BC, Elune has been alluded to being a naaru for a long time, and would make a good deal of sense. Old god would be a fascinating turn of events though.

    Also, isn't Y'shaarj made up of the 7 shas, and when he got killed he was split apart into them? I may have misinterpreted some of the MoP lore, but that is what I got out of it.

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Badhairday View Post
    There's Y'shaarj, who just happens to have 7 heads. The quote provided by Tarolib2: "The goat with the seven heads" probably refers to this Old God.

    You'd probably want to use wowpedia over wowwiki, it seems to be more reliable and up to date.
    Good catch. I haven't actually played WoW in a bit, completely forgot about the seven heads/seven Sha connection.

    As far as the idea that an Old God may not be evil: if they're keeping with the Lovecraftian themes, which they seem to be, they're all really chaotic by nature. Not necessarily evil, since they exist outside of the bounds of morality, but their actions are things we'd probably just deem as evil from our perspective.

    Also, in the Lovecraft universe, the whole pantheon of Old Gods gets a little screwy after so many people had hands in it, but they were eventually broken down into Elder Gods, which reside in our dimension, and Outer Gods, which have influence in our dimension, but can't actually cross over. Even these terms get misused a bit depending on which author is using them (Nyarlathotep was once described as an Outer God, but resides on the moon...earth's moon...), but the general theme could still be in play; we've got the five Old Gods on Azeroth (Elder Gods), and there are many others out there messing with things on far away planets (Outer Gods).

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by Badhairday View Post
    Y'shaarj was indeed slain, and he's kinda dead. In a way. His heart remains and is in the control of Garrosh. While it's only the heart, it still whispers creepily like anything Old God-related we've come across.

    There was a thread a while ago where someone came up with a theory: That Azeroth itself might be a titan prototype. That titans are crafted out of planets. It seems quite ridiculous but he laid up the theory in a way that made it seem very plausable. I can't remember much of it but it had a lot to do with what Wrathion says about "We have fallen, we must rebuild the final Titan".
    there has to be something special about azeroth. it took the titans a few days to fix it up, when algolon says plainly they create and destroy worlds in the time it takes a heart to beat. so there's clearly something about this planet that's vastly different.

  16. #176
    Yet again when talking about powerfull WoW characters we forget Velen who said was in time equal with Kil'jaeden and archimonde. So I believe he could still defeat Azshara

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by Destinas View Post
    Goat with seven eyes, actually. Though it's obviously some kind of metaphor, though it may still retain to Y'Shaarj. also notably, Y'shaarj's lines in 5.4 match up with hints about N'zoth and the Naga from Yogg-Saron's Puzzle Box. Especially the part about Ny'alotha.
    Oh, my mistake.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcstunner View Post
    there has to be something special about azeroth. it took the titans a few days to fix it up, when algolon says plainly they create and destroy worlds in the time it takes a heart to beat. so there's clearly something about this planet that's vastly different.
    Very true. There's so many hidden things in Azeroth that we don't know much about yet, so it's difficult to try and figure out precisely what kept the titans from simply destroying Azeroth to get rid of the Old Gods.

    Quote Originally Posted by forestfool View Post
    Yet again when talking about powerfull WoW characters we forget Velen who said was in time equal with Kil'jaeden and archimonde. So I believe he could still defeat Azshara
    Velen's power lies more in healing and visions, rather than harmful attacks. Or so it seems.
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  18. #178
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    What about the Naaru A'dal? It seems pretty powerful, though I don't really know if we're ever given a very clear display of just how powerful it is. It does seem to be able to save people from undeath, and all Naaru have that phoenix-like regeneration cycle that ensures their immortality, if not invulnerability/invincibility.
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  19. #179
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
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    I am not certain if the Naaru can be considered mortal entities or divine entities.

    That seems to be the distinction between made by the OP if we class Titans and Old Gods (and presumably Elune, and the Elements and the Loa) under the blanket terms [Divine Entity] and class Elves (like Azshara) or Eredun/Dranei (like Kil'Jaedan) under the blanket term [Mortal Entity]

  20. #180
    Legendary! Taftvalue's Avatar
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    she is incredibly powerful but Kil'jaeden is in another league I think. I mean this guy is what? 25.000 years old? and he was empowered by Sargeras himself 25k years ago, so I'm sure he got some powers of his own ;P
    There is only one god and his name is Sargeras.

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