Page 1 of 2
1
2
LastLast
  1. #1

    Raid dying on wind storm phase, in Iron Qon 10 man (normal)

    Here's a log of 9 wipes, from last night's attempts on Iron Qon 10 man normal:

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/s...3hf/dashboard/

    We're consistently wiping on the first wind storm phase, and the main problem (as I see it), is that we can't come to a consensus, regarding what the problem is.

    I'm asserting that people are either not popping defensive CDs on wind storm, and/or aren't successfully dodging tornadoes, before they can get out of the effect.

    Other people were pointing to us carrying the arcing lightning debuff into the wind storm as a problem, and we wound up spending most of the attempts trying to dispel the debuff, prior to everyone getting sucked in.

    I'd love to know what the right answer is. Is it even possible to go into wind storm, with nobody having arcing lightning? Or, if arcing lightning is inevitable, then does everyone need to pick a different direction to run out in, after we're all sucked into wind storm, so that we minimize the amount of damage we're doing to each other?

    Note that we don't have a bear, nor do we have a lock, but I know those aren't necessary to get through this part. Looking at 10N parses from a couple of other guilds on my server, it looks like they just heal through the arcing lightning, but I can't tell if you're supposed to do anything special.

  2. #2
    Tank him in the back right of the room just before wind storm begins.

    If you look at the entrance to the raid (opposite side of Iron Qon) there is a little cubby where if you stand the windstorm doesn't suck you in.

    Have your tanks tank iron qon there once wind begins then after the last spear of that phase have all your ranged run in.

  3. #3
    You've gotta be kidding me? Blizz left a wall in place, that blocks you from getting sucked in? Criminy.

    As for the spears, I'm not yet 100% clear on that mechanic (we weren't getting that far). We have 2 tanks plus me, as melee, with the other 7 being ranged dps and heals.

    Are you saying that when the lightning dog comes out, the tanks move it all the way to that cubby area, and then all 10 of us huddle up, to avoid the vortex?

    Then the 7 run out, to dodge spears, when wind storm ends? I'm sure I'm missing something on that part.

  4. #4
    Hey someone else from Duskwood, thats' a rarity.

    Yeah the little cubby thing works, tried it once out of curiosity though we never used it. Doesn't look like too many people are failing at tornado's from 2 of the logs that I looked at. Are you guys spread out during all the other phases the best you can? That is usually the only way the lightning debuff can spread and I am seeing quite a bit of damage done from that. You definitely wanna make sure that debuff is completely gone before the last phase otherwise it'll kill you quickly when combined with his fist smash.

    Do you have any access to warlock(s) or a class with a group speed buff (Like druid)? It makes the tornado phases incredibly easy to do. The hardest part by far is the first dog with the fire by far, which you seem to have down.

    Other than that all I can say it just to stay spread and make sure everyone is topped off before going into the storm (Or do it the cubby way to don't get sucked in).

  5. #5
    You have a rather odd raid composition. You can bring all of the buffs needed, but not all the debuffs. Make sure one Hunter has a pet that provides Attack Speed (hyena/serpent), and the other one can bring Magic Vulnerability, since you have 4 members that will benefit from that. Even then, though, you'll still be missing Weakened Armor and Physical Vulnerability, so your DPS is nerfed before you even walk into the instance.

    If you do it the non-cheese way, the key thing is to blow your defensive cooldowns before Windstorm starts. If you missed it, there's nothing you can do. Just heal up and don't run to the end right away - make sure that if someone does get sucked into a tornado, it won't be a wipe.

  6. #6
    10m normal? don't play awful. That's really all it is...

    Infracted
    Last edited by Darsithis; 2013-07-12 at 03:42 AM.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Hamanis View Post
    Hey someone else from Duskwood, thats' a rarity.

    Yeah the little cubby thing works, tried it once out of curiosity though we never used it. Doesn't look like too many people are failing at tornado's from 2 of the logs that I looked at. Are you guys spread out during all the other phases the best you can? That is usually the only way the lightning debuff can spread and I am seeing quite a bit of damage done from that. You definitely wanna make sure that debuff is completely gone before the last phase otherwise it'll kill you quickly when combined with his fist smash.

    Do you have any access to warlock(s) or a class with a group speed buff (Like druid)? It makes the tornado phases incredibly easy to do. The hardest part by far is the first dog with the fire by far, which you seem to have down.

    Other than that all I can say it just to stay spread and make sure everyone is topped off before going into the storm (Or do it the cubby way to don't get sucked in).
    Hey Hamanis!

    No lock, and no furball.

    What we do, on the fire phase, is the ranged and heals take up 7 positions in an arc, around what I call the grey basketball key. It fits nicely around a big circle where we pull the fire dog. Anyway, we rotate 3 stacking groups, for the fire dog, and get through that without much problem, like you mentioned.

    We've only hit this 2nd phase, and only twice did we get to a 2nd wind storm. As melee dps, I'm not 100% sure what the ranged and heals are doing, exactly, once the lightning dog comes out. I know there was discussion about spreading out, so as to minimize the arcing lightning, but Codilla put forth the theory that if one person has arcing lightning (even after having been pulled out), then we all get it, due to proximity, once we all get sucked into the wind storm. I'm not sure that's correct, but I can't refute it, either.

    So, it sounds like you're saying that yes, we can completely dispel the arcing lightning, so that nobody has it, going into the wind storm? Or, does it look like we're just not "un-clumping" quickly enough, after we're sucked into the wind storm?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tarazet View Post
    You have a rather odd raid composition. You can bring all of the buffs needed, but not all the debuffs. Make sure one Hunter has a pet that provides Attack Speed (hyena/serpent), and the other one can bring Magic Vulnerability, since you have 4 members that will benefit from that. Even then, though, you'll still be missing Weakened Armor and Physical Vulnerability, so your DPS is nerfed before you even walk into the instance.

    If you do it the non-cheese way, the key thing is to blow your defensive cooldowns before Windstorm starts. If you missed it, there's nothing you can do. Just heal up and don't run to the end right away - make sure that if someone does get sucked into a tornado, it won't be a wipe.
    Heh. Our guild is lucky to have 10 ppl get together consistently, for each week's raid group. I'd love to have all of the buffs and debuffs, but it's not something that we could simply snap our fingers and make happen. Plus, we've been together a while, and we'd rather have our progression suffer, than force a friend to sit, just because of their class buffs. Hence, we have a MM hunter as a main raider. (Need I say more?)

    That being said, I'm bringing the attack speed, and one of the hunters is typically tasked with a battle res (since our only other brez is a tank, who can't run to range) and the other with either spell haste, or some other damn thing I can't remember. I've pushed before, for the physical vulnerability and spell damage taken, but our GM would prefer to organize a comp around the assumption that at some point, somebody has to die and get brez'd. I'd rather give them hell, until they don't die.

    But why do you say, that in a non-cheesy mode of doing it, that you heal up and don't run to the end right away? There's that 80% healing/absorb reduction, after all.

  8. #8
    You need your healers to get out of the tornado zone as soon as possible. The healing done is nerfed, not the healing recieved.
    If you have a monk heal, he should put his "teleport thing" at the right spot before the beginning of the fight. If you have no warlock, no monk heal and not even a druid... You're gonna have a bad time.
    Warrior soloing spreadsheet.

    Ittle Dew (Any%): 12:13
    Super Meat Boy (Any%): 21:50

  9. #9
    Bloodsail Admiral Ethes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Tokyo, Japan (日本東京)
    Posts
    1,130
    I hope that the following 5 steps will help you not to die from Windstorm:

    1. Make sure everybody is topped off when you go into a Windstorm (have things like rejuv rolling when you get in there is also very helpful!)
    2. Blow defensive cd's like aura mastery + personals (barkskin, etc.) right before the windstorm happens (have someone call it out on vent, if people can't get the timing right). Placing an AMZ at the place where you're going to land is also useful
    3. Use speedboosts such as stampeding roar when moving out and take it easy, just avoid the tornado's!!
    4. If you have a healer who can be out quickly, let him/her blow a major AoE heal to get the raid up asap
    5. Make good use of personal CD's in order to only get 1 Tornado phase

    Last thing to note, having a warlock in your raid will make this encounter about a gazillion times easier as you can teleport your healers, tank and person who can't avoid tornado's out instantly while they can start with healing up the raid.
    Quote Originally Posted by Warbringer O'Mrogg
    Left: Me Hungry.
    Right: You're always hungry. That's why we're so fat!

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Embermoon View Post
    Hey Hamanis!

    No lock, and no furball.

    What we do, on the fire phase, is the ranged and heals take up 7 positions in an arc, around what I call the grey basketball key. It fits nicely around a big circle where we pull the fire dog. Anyway, we rotate 3 stacking groups, for the fire dog, and get through that without much problem, like you mentioned.

    We've only hit this 2nd phase, and only twice did we get to a 2nd wind storm. As melee dps, I'm not 100% sure what the ranged and heals are doing, exactly, once the lightning dog comes out. I know there was discussion about spreading out, so as to minimize the arcing lightning, but Codilla put forth the theory that if one person has arcing lightning (even after having been pulled out), then we all get it, due to proximity, once we all get sucked into the wind storm. I'm not sure that's correct, but I can't refute it, either.

    So, it sounds like you're saying that yes, we can completely dispel the arcing lightning, so that nobody has it, going into the wind storm? Or, does it look like we're just not "un-clumping" quickly enough, after we're sucked into the wind storm?

    - - - Updated - - -



    Heh. Our guild is lucky to have 10 ppl get together consistently, for each week's raid group. I'd love to have all of the buffs and debuffs, but it's not something that we could simply snap our fingers and make happen. Plus, we've been together a while, and we'd rather have our progression suffer, than force a friend to sit, just because of their class buffs. Hence, we have a MM hunter as a main raider. (Need I say more?)

    That being said, I'm bringing the attack speed, and one of the hunters is typically tasked with a battle res (since our only other brez is a tank, who can't run to range) and the other with either spell haste, or some other damn thing I can't remember. I've pushed before, for the physical vulnerability and spell damage taken, but our GM would prefer to organize a comp around the assumption that at some point, somebody has to die and get brez'd. I'd rather give them hell, until they don't die.

    But why do you say, that in a non-cheesy mode of doing it, that you heal up and don't run to the end right away? There's that 80% healing/absorb reduction, after all.
    Ah right, if you don't bring spell haste then the hunter has to. Sporebat to the rescue. I skimmed over the log and for some reason thought you were Elemental. The two shamans can both battle-res themselves, so I don't really see the need for an extra b-res. More than one is a waste in 10 mans. I'd still go for either Phys/Magic vulnerability.

    I use Stampeding Roar right away, but always wait half a heartbeat to make sure I know where I am and where I'm going. I've gotten scooped up a few times because I was simply disoriented.

  11. #11
    Raid needs to be topped off just before windstorm, and healers need to use raid cooldowns as soon as they get to the safe zone, their healing won't be reduced there. A warlock portal helps a ton for that, or a druid stampeding roar.

    And yeah, you need to have minimal people with the debuff.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Senen View Post
    You need your healers to get out of the tornado zone as soon as possible. The healing done is nerfed, not the healing recieved.
    If you have a monk heal, he should put his "teleport thing" at the right spot before the beginning of the fight. If you have no warlock, no monk heal and not even a druid... You're gonna have a bad time.
    We picked up on that, and were attempting to put out some absorbs prior to the "vortex" effect. No luck yet, though. We have an excellent fistweaver, who can't make it most nights. I'll recommend the teleport, if he joins us on this boss. Thanks for that tidbit.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethes View Post
    I hope that the following 5 steps will help you not to die from Windstorm:

    1. Make sure everybody is topped off when you go into a Windstorm (have things like rejuv rolling when you get in there is also very helpful!)

    We were trying to do that, but even going into wind storm with everyone at full heath, we'd see half the raid tick to dead before they could get out.

    2. Blow defensive cd's like aura mastery + personals (barkskin, etc.) right before the windstorm happens (have someone call it out on vent, if people can't get the timing right). Placing an AMZ at the place where you're going to land is also useful

    I don't think any and all defensive CDs would need to be popped prior; only the "absorb" CDs. I pop shamanistic rage, as well as astral shift (both damage reduction), and then spirit walk + ghost wolf out. I take the least damage of anyone, with that combo (ideal for that mechanic). I'll suggest AMZ to our blood DK. We were thinking lichborne for the last phase, but she may not need it then.

    3. Use speedboosts such as stampeding roar when moving out and take it easy, just avoid the tornado's!!
    4. If you have a healer who can be out quickly, let him/her blow a major AoE heal to get the raid up asap
    5. Make good use of personal CD's in order to only get 1 Tornado phase

    Last thing to note, having a warlock in your raid will make this encounter about a gazillion times easier as you can teleport your healers, tank and person who can't avoid tornado's out instantly while they can start with healing up the raid.
    wtb warlock

  13. #13
    Bloodsail Admiral Ethes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Tokyo, Japan (日本東京)
    Posts
    1,130
    If I said things you were already doing, apologies! I've not properly studied your logs, just tried to point out what we did on heroic going into that thing. And yea, it's not all defensives that need to be popped, but indeed just the 'reduce damage taken' ones. If you can setup a rotation (e.g. AMZ at the start where you land and personals afterwards), that would also be beneficial.

    Lastly, getting hit by a tornado is way worse than staying in the zone for a little longer. Explain to your raiders that it's better to take it slow, than to rush and die!
    Quote Originally Posted by Warbringer O'Mrogg
    Left: Me Hungry.
    Right: You're always hungry. That's why we're so fat!

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Spotnick View Post
    ...And yeah, you need to have minimal people with the debuff.
    How do you accomplish this? Dispels? Let it wear off?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ethes View Post
    If I said things you were already doing, apologies! I've not properly studied your logs, just tried to point out what we did on heroic going into that thing. And yea, it's not all defensives that need to be popped, but indeed just the 'reduce damage taken' ones. If you can setup a rotation (e.g. AMZ at the start where you land and personals afterwards), that would also be beneficial.

    Lastly, getting hit by a tornado is way worse than staying in the zone for a little longer. Explain to your raiders that it's better to take it slow, than to rush and die!
    No apologies necessary - I appreciate the responses.

  15. #15
    Oh wow, no warlock, and no druid. When you have neither, people just need to dodge the winds flawlessly, healers need to use personal sprint cds to run out fast so they can heal the raid. You don't even have pallies for devotion auras, jesus :P

    Quote Originally Posted by Embermoon View Post
    How do you accomplish this? Dispels? Let it wear off?
    You simply have no more people linking it to eachother than you have to. The only people who should have it is those who get the actual debuff, and those who click it.
    Last edited by Proberly; 2013-07-11 at 09:45 PM.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Ritthepally View Post
    10m normal? don't play awful. That's really all it is...
    Don't make shit posts dude. He asked for help, not for forums newbs to sneer at him.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    Don't make shit posts dude. He asked for help, not for forums newbs to sneer at him.
    But he is right.
    To pass that fight all you have to do is to move away from winds, it's the simpliest thing ever and ppls still fail.
    But if you still can't do it just exploit it by going in los as other ppls suggested.

  18. #18
    A bit of a heads up if you do get a warlock, it's not a teleport mechanic wise. It physically moves you between the two points, so if there happens to be a tornado in your way after you click the gate, that tornado will scoop you up. You will have to time it precisely when there are no tornados between the two gates, generally it's just easier to run when a tornado passes, stop a moment, move up, stop, move up, stop. If people are getting scooped up, it's because they are trying to rush through it too fast.

  19. #19
    Wow, no Lock and no Druid. Umm, this is probably the only time I will ever suggest this to anybody ever, but you might want your Priests to take that incredibly idiotic Feather ability that increases runspeed for people who run over them. Since your only move speed buffs appear to be Priest shields giving that 4 second sprint, it would be helpful to have another movespeed increase for the group. You can put down 3 feathers (6 if both Priests take it) and that'll help the group get out with 60% speed for 6 seconds, compared to 60% for 4 seconds with Shield.

    Only reason I think the feather is better is because you don't need to shield all 10 people in a row, which would take too long probably (although the Priests should be shielding to avoid damage taken anyway) and the buff lasts a couple seconds longer to get out. Probably not completely needed, but with your group comp being what it is it may be helpful. Just food for thought since nobody else mentioned that.

  20. #20
    Bloodsail Admiral Ethes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Tokyo, Japan (日本東京)
    Posts
    1,130
    Quote Originally Posted by Embermoon View Post
    How do you accomplish this? Dispels? Let it wear off?
    Yes, the only way to manage that. Can't even bubble that off I think
    Quote Originally Posted by Warbringer O'Mrogg
    Left: Me Hungry.
    Right: You're always hungry. That's why we're so fat!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •