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  1. #21
    I think you're missing the point. It's healing that you wouldn't otherwise have. It's bonus healing. It may come with you don't need it. But it should be consistent enough that enough of the healing procs hit when they are needed.
    You are giving up stats to get the healing from the 4 piece though, so it is taking away from a different source. The main argument was about whether giving up the proc is worth the stats you lose. I just prefer to have stronger shields than a proc that may be wasted. I admit it also may not be, I just rather have mor control over it.
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  2. #22
    Warchief HeatherRae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amerrol View Post
    You are giving up stats to get the healing from the 4 piece though, so it is taking away from a different source. The main argument was about whether giving up the proc is worth the stats you lose. I just prefer to have stronger shields than a proc that may be wasted. I admit it also may not be, I just rather have mor control over it.
    Bear in mind, I am not giving up better stats. I'm primarily Holy, and the secondary stats on the tier gear are superior to what I would get with off pieces anyway (since Crit is really not a good stat for Holy as compared to either Haste or Mastery).

    With that said, our Disc Priest running with the 4pc doesn't seem to be suffering for it. He just prioritized his 4pc differently and picked up off-set gloves instead. He's still sitting at about 30% Crit, even using 4pc.
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  3. #23
    You don't have to go "either or" - utilising both to the full potential is entirely possible.
    Haha, I still think you are misunderstanding me Draco, or I'm just really struggling to get my point across. I pre-shield everything I can. Once the damage is out, more often than not I will be using Atonement heals right after to heal up what went through. It is only in a few situations that I will use PoH, mostly with heavy, steady damage.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by HeatherRae View Post
    Bear in mind, I am not giving up better stats. I'm primarily Holy, and the secondary stats on the tier gear are superior to what I would get with off pieces anyway (since Crit is really not a good stat for Holy as compared to either Haste or Mastery).

    With that said, our Disc Priest running with the 4pc doesn't seem to be suffering for it. He just prioritized his 4pc differently and picked up off-set gloves instead. He's still sitting at about 30% Crit, even using 4pc.
    I was more referring to Disc in general, not you specifically. No matter what way you go, it will not make or break a Priest's output. We're arguing about a ~1% healing difference. This is pretty much thinking out loud that got out of hand.
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  4. #24
    Warchief HeatherRae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amerrol View Post
    I was more referring to Disc in general, not you specifically. No matter what way you go, it will not make or break a Priest's output. We're arguing about a ~1% healing difference. This is pretty much thinking out loud that got out of hand.
    Oh! I did misunderstand you. I 100% agree with you on that. Any combination of stats is going to work for a Disc Priest if it fits with the player's playstyle and enjoyment. I actually really like Disc for that very reason - that it's so fluid and forgiving of stat combinations. I feel much freer to experiment and play around with stats as Disc without worrying that I'm hurting my raid if I do so.
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  5. #25
    Stood in the Fire h3lladvocate's Avatar
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    Generally makes up ~5% of my healing, why would i NOT run it? Do you people never cast Penance? 4-5% healing, usually 15% Overheal max, sounds pretty f-ing good to me...

    I'm not giving up any stats either, 35% crit buffed, spirit/haste/mastery all where I want them. I think you are underestimating it, it's a good 4pc. Even AoE healing, you should be Penancing the boss, which means procs and free heals. Just compared all three versions of double upgraded legs, one pair is ~50 stats less than tier, one is ~50 more. Yea, some pieces are slightly better, and ofc you can get H TF off-pieces, but outside of TF, the stat differences are miniscule.

    Dunno bout you, but a decently often proc heal for ~130k that can crit and proc bubbles and makes up ~5% healing is pretty sexy. Definitely worth the whole 200 crit rating you MIGHT have to sacrifice to get it.
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  6. #26
    has anyone tried this in arena?? i think it did 15% of my healing lol

    on topic: i think 4 piece is very worth it until 2piece of t16 then onto 4piece 3-5% extra healing is huge but im not entirely sure about 25man because im in 10man

  7. #27
    Just for reference, at 45k spellpower 1k intellect is roughly 2% extra HPS BEFORE overheal. You need roughly 2.5-3k secondary stats to get to 2% more HPS as disc.

    3000/600 = 5% mastery or crit. At 30% crit, 5% extra crit improves your HPS by 1.35/1.3 = 3.8%, with 15% overheal on aegis that is ~3.3% and mastery is pretty much the same value.

    Basically even adding a raidfinder tier piece is going to be better than a thunderforged item if it gives you 4p-t15.

    There is no excuse to not use penance on CD and picking twins is a bad example, because why do you want to be disc on twins.

    You can be holy instead and 4 heal it.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=1923&e=2537

    This was a pretty horrible attempt where everything went wrong and still we made it through because holy and mistweavers are so ridiculously strong. If I was disc here we would have about the same chance of surviving as a snowball has in hell.
    Last edited by Havoc12; 2013-07-15 at 01:39 AM.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Havoc12 View Post
    Just for reference, at 45k spellpower 1k intellect is roughly 2% extra HPS BEFORE overheal. You need roughly 2.5-3k secondary stats to get to 2% more HPS as disc.

    3000/600 = 5% mastery or crit. At 30% crit, 5% extra crit improves your HPS by 1.35/1.3 = 3.8%, with 15% overheal on aegis that is ~3.3% and mastery is pretty much the same value.

    Basically even adding a raidfinder tier piece is going to be better than a thunderforged item if it gives you 4p-t15.

    There is no excuse to not use penance on CD and picking twins is a bad example, because why do you want to be disc on twins.

    You can be holy instead and 4 heal it.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=1923&e=2537

    This was a pretty horrible attempt where everything went wrong and still we made it through because holy and mistweavers are so ridiculously strong. If I was disc here we would have about the same chance of surviving as a snowball has in hell.

    Thanks for the numbers clarification, means we've got a definite answer - TF over tier = not worth it.

    But... Why do you have to bring "BUT GO HOLY BECAUSE IT'S A GOOD SPEC AND I THINK ITS BETTER THAN DISC"-into everything <.<? Disc > holy on progress due to the utility disc provides that holy doesn't, it's as simple as that. Holy fills the same niche as both mistweavers and resto druids, disc fills a niche no one else does. Unless you've got an abundance of priests, you'd want them to be disc for progress, because no one else can do what they do. And unless your entire raid team is compromised of paladins, resto shamans and priests, you'll (obviously) have druids and mistweavers to cover the AOE-heal niche :/.
    (Also - two things about that log:
    I see 6 healers. One that died towards the end of P1, one that died towards the end of P2.
    I don't see how you and the mistweaver pulling 145-150K shows that you can 4 heal it because you're holy. The exact log in this thread of our priest Felice shows him as disc, pulling FAR higher numbers than the holy priest in your log - relinking for ease:
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...&e=9989#Felice
    Note that it basicly also shows 4.5 healers if we go by your standards, as the shaman was activating the celestials, which you can see from the constant dips in his otput).

    Sorry for the rant, but it just irks me that you constantly seem to advocate that holy priests "does as well" or "does better" than disc. From a numbers point of view, I agree - but from a raidleaders PoV, the utility a disc brings over a holy is just too big to ignore. I get that you want to play holy and all, and with your level of progress, I don't think it'll matter one bit to your guild, but I just won't agree that it's what's most beneficial to your raid.
    Last edited by Dracodraco; 2013-07-15 at 05:17 AM.

  9. #29
    There are a lot of implications in Draco's post on this thread regarding how disc should optimally heal in progression content. I am not saying I disagree. However, I have to wonder how this fits in a healing roster where a disc priest will take primary responsibility for tank healing. I found myself in this situation much of last tier and at the beginning of this one in 25 heroic, and my damage was always lower than the other disc priest, given all he essentially did was atone and cast spirit shell without a specific assignment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    The only issues I have with him is the fact that his damage as disc is laughably low compared to what I usually did (about double).

    Granted, neither of you did very much tank healing in the log provided. I guess what irks me so much about this statement is that you seem to imply that disc should focus on increasing their damage done rather than see it as an added bonus to overall raid dps. I am sure that your added damage did make a contribution to your DA kill. However, if the tank dies and his death log only shows atonement heals is it nearly as significant?

    Also, while atonement heavy healing clearly worked well in your raid this tier, I have to wonder how well this strategy will work in Seige progression. My understanding of current raid testing is that tank damage is sificantly higher than what we have seen in ToT. With that in mind (and the amount of hpallies re-rolling... Ours is considering it), I cannot help but speculate who that burden will fall upon.

    Edit: Grammar
    Last edited by prayerforyou; 2013-07-15 at 09:45 AM.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by prayerforyou View Post
    There are a lot of implications in Draco's post on this thread regarding how disc should optimally heal in progression content. I am not saying I disagree. However, I have to wonder how this fits in a healing roster where a disc priest will take primary responsibility for tank healing. I found myself in this situation much of last tier and at the beginning of this one in 25 heroic, and my damage was always lower than the other disc priest, given all he essentially did was atone and cast spirit shell without a specific assignment.




    Granted, neither of you did very much tank healing in the log provided. I guess what irks me so much about this statement is that you seem to imply that disc should focus on increasing their damage done rather than see it as an added bonus to overall raid dps. I am sure that your added damage did make a contribution to your DA kill. However, if the tank dies and his death log only shows atonement heals is it nearly as significant?

    Also, while atonement heavy healing clearly worked well in your raid this tier, I have to wonder how well this strategy will work in Seige progression. My understanding of current raid testing is that tank damage is sificantly higher than what we have seen in ToT. With that in mind (and the amount of hpallies re-rolling... Ours is considering it), I cannot help but speculate who that burden will fall upon.

    Edit: Grammar
    Disc priest should never be assigned to "tank healing". If the tank dies and only shows atonement healing, then one of your other healers fucked up by not healing the tank. Not the priest, who's most efficient at healing the lowest target in the raid, and thus preventing deaths from the Mark / Jolt.
    For one, every other healer except monk does it better than a priest. We had two shamans in our roster this tier, and as they have great singletarget output but are shit for anything else, they've been on tank healing duty. Either way, if your raid put a disc priest on tank healing this tier, something's been very, very wrong.
    As for added tank damage, haven't really seen it tbh, it's been pretty much the same. Maybe people are just used to their tanks taking far less dmg from this tier due to farm, but on progress, I didn't see any differences between the two.

  11. #31
    On the subject of "current tank damage on PTR" please remember that it IS PTR and damage will change, not to mention the ilevel being lowered for testing purposes.

  12. #32
    Actually my point is that this is not really a good fight to pick for determining discipline stat prio's, because a) it is not a fight where you really want to be discipline in 25man b) you can have two very different playstyles with comparable results, which benefit very differently from gear strategies. It depends on how you want to handle pre-shielding for relevant abilities.

    All this talk about healing niche's is mostly perception. There are two things you need from each healer HPS and tools to help mitigate raid mechanics. No matter how each healer heals as long as they provide the HPS, be they heals absorbs or slaying chickens under a full moon. Unless two healers clash. There are no more heal niches in 25man.

    The level of progression is immaterial. Have you actually tried holy? I play disc as my main spec with holy as my offspec and which spec I choose has had an impact on how long it takes us to kill a boss (as much as a single person can make in a 25man raid). As we learn an encounter I see from the logs what kills people and decided which spec to used based on which one is best suited to deal with that. The sclerotic view that all healers must fit a niche can only hurt my raid.

    Nitpicking the parses is too far out of subject so I will just touch on it briefly and clearly mark it as out of subject

    [out of subject]
    In my parse we have the high damage phases effectively 3 healed (which is part of the reason why so many people died), and we have 3 healers dead before the end. In your parse the high damage phases you have 4 ppl doing competitive HPS with minor healing from a 5th healer helping out a bit (who is still doing about as much as one of the full time healers in our parse). If went discipline with my gear that 10-15% lower HPS would mean more deaths and wipe.

    Disc has no other utility except a little off-DPS and mitigating deaths arising from very high burst. That is it. Everything else that is commonly implied about discipline is just theory that simply does not match up to reality.
    [/out of subject]

    ------------------------------------------------------------

    Tank healing in 25man is best handled by a combination of heals from everyone, rather than a dedicated healer, so atonement healing is strong for that and remember that penance heals more when used defensively now, so high tank damage favours disc and atonement healing because you can combine evangelism with grace.

    Basically discipline will always no matter what want to use solace/holy fire and penance on CD that is a baseline 40k DPS or so and that no damage pattern is going to change that with disc as it is now.

    40-60k DPS is significant in 10man with 8 ppl doing 250k average, but it is too small in a 25man raid, with 19 ppl doing 250k average, especially considering that most other classes can also supply 10-15k DPS anyway.


    I agree that shielding while moving is great, but if I'm standing still and the target isn't going to actually die the next hit, I'd rather smart heal with atonement than use a shield. An example could be Animus heroic - I almost exclusively spammed Solace, Penance, and shields in the last part of the fight on progress. Solace+penance because it was smart healing, bombing up the lowest targets (and thus most likely to die from jolt), shields when they were both on cooldown because it could also prevent deaths. You don't have to go "either or" - utilising both to the full potential is entirely possible.
    You assumed that it did, but did you actually check it with the logs? Penance can potentially save someone combined with blanket healing from other classes, but holy fire/solace not so much. In a 25man raid the entire raid is blanketed with heals (rejuve, mists, eternal flame/healing rain) so more often than not a small atonement heal has no bearing on the outcome. The damage would be healed effectively a couple of seconds later. Unless solace/penance is unloaded just before a jolt that is. However a disc in that phase can dramatically reduce one shots by PWSing targets with matter swap and dispelling it early, that reduces the damage going to the matter swap soakers and makes it easier to keep them alive. It also means that you can better control the matter swap damage so that you can avoid it happening very close to a jolt.

    That does not mean you should not use solace/penance on CD. Let us not forget evangelism and archangel, but I think the real value of a disc priest on DA is not atonement, which is does not bear the brunt of keeping people alive, but PWS on matter swaps, which helps stabilise and control a very unpredictable source of damage.
    Last edited by Havoc12; 2013-07-15 at 04:31 PM.

  13. #33
    Stood in the Fire h3lladvocate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spazzeh View Post
    On the subject of "current tank damage on PTR" please remember that it IS PTR and damage will change, not to mention the ilevel being lowered for testing purposes.
    This 1000%. I remember doing H Lei Shi testing on the PTR(Beta) and it was holy crap insane tank damage, and then doing it live and it was like "LOL ATONEMENT SPAM WOOOOOOO".

    Disc are great tank healers thought. Yes, I think they are better raid heals with Atonement and such, but holy crap I can put out tank numbers like a boss if I need too (gonna be even better with 100% DI and higher FDLC proc chances)

    Now, can we get back to the OT?
    <Rustlemania> - 10 Man Raiding - 8/14 H SoO, 11/13 H ToT, 16/16H T14

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  14. #34
    4 pc or no 4 piece it not a gamebreaker either way
    Last edited by Skandulous; 2013-07-15 at 08:55 PM.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Havoc12 View Post
    Actually my point is that this is not really a good fight to pick for determining discipline stat prio's, because a) it is not a fight where you really want to be discipline in 25man b) you can have two very different playstyles with comparable results, which benefit very differently from gear strategies. It depends on how you want to handle pre-shielding for relevant abilities.

    All this talk about healing niche's is mostly perception. There are two things you need from each healer HPS and tools to help mitigate raid mechanics. No matter how each healer heals as long as they provide the HPS, be they heals absorbs or slaying chickens under a full moon. Unless two healers clash. There are no more heal niches in 25man.

    The level of progression is immaterial. Have you actually tried holy? I play disc as my main spec with holy as my offspec and which spec I choose has had an impact on how long it takes us to kill a boss (as much as a single person can make in a 25man raid). As we learn an encounter I see from the logs what kills people and decided which spec to used based on which one is best suited to deal with that. The sclerotic view that all healers must fit a niche can only hurt my raid.
    Here's the thing - the level of play does have something to say. As mentioned, picking between disc or holy won't matter for you, because you're not challenged with the same difficulties as other people have been in lesser gear. Things were absolutely in danger of 1 shotting you on twin's progress with 10 item levels less, and the enrage was *far* tighter. Your kill lasted almost 9 minutes - the enrage is 10. Imagine having to do it with 10 item levels less than you just did.
    It's also not a "view" that *I* have that all healers must fit a niche - it's a view blizzard has, and as such, every healer DOES fill a niche. If healers did NOT have niches, then you'd be able to use mistweaver monks as effective tank healers, resto shamans as AOE-raid healers when you're spread, etc - you're not, though.
    The fact is that some healers do better in one role, and some do in another. You can't dispute that, and having a healer not do the role they are most efficient at, will not be a benefit.


    Nitpicking the parses is too far out of subject so I will just touch on it briefly and clearly mark it as out of subject

    [out of subject]
    In my parse we have the high damage phases effectively 3 healed (which is part of the reason why so many people died), and we have 3 healers dead before the end. In your parse the high damage phases you have 4 ppl doing competitive HPS with minor healing from a 5th healer helping out a bit (who is still doing about as much as one of the full time healers in our parse). If went discipline with my gear that 10-15% lower HPS would mean more deaths and wipe.

    Disc has no other utility except a little off-DPS and mitigating deaths arising from very high burst. That is it. Everything else that is commonly implied about discipline is just theory that simply does not match up to reality.
    [/out of subject]
    And how do you know you wouldn't have been alive, if you had been disc?
    the "little off dps" is also incredible on progress. I already stated why, but the next time you go holy and you wipe at 15M, I want you to know that if you'd been disc instead, it would have been a kill. And the chance that the extra healing you could do as holy would have been absolutely vital is extremely low.
    And does disc need more tools than bringing DPS+preventing high burst deaths? No one dies due to constant ticking damage if there's a mistweaver or a druid in the raid. The only class that can effectively prevent the one shots are disc priests.

    ------------------------------------------------------------

    Tank healing in 25man is best handled by a combination of heals from everyone, rather than a dedicated healer, so atonement healing is strong for that and remember that penance heals more when used defensively now, so high tank damage favours disc and atonement healing because you can combine evangelism with grace.

    Basically discipline will always no matter what want to use solace/holy fire and penance on CD that is a baseline 40k DPS or so and that no damage pattern is going to change that with disc as it is now.

    40-60k DPS is significant in 10man with 8 ppl doing 250k average, but it is too small in a 25man raid, with 19 ppl doing 250k average, especially considering that most other classes can also supply 10-15k DPS anyway.
    No matter how you twist and turn it, the damage disc does is extremely significant on high end progress in both raid modes. Any boss where you've had a sub-15M in 25 man without a disc, it would have been a kill. Heck, we killed Garajal the first reset purely because we could drop to 4 main healers +1x disc, and killed it right on the enrage. Think back to Ultraxion too - killing it in the last second during the enrage cast was extremely common, and you'd usually have 4 healers +1x disc atonement spammer (this was BEFORE atonement was as good as it is today, by the way. That says a little something about how highly the DPS is valued).



    You assumed that it did, but did you actually check it with the logs? Penance can potentially save someone combined with blanket healing from other classes, but holy fire/solace not so much. In a 25man raid the entire raid is blanketed with heals (rejuve, mists, eternal flame/healing rain) so more often than not a small atonement heal has no bearing on the outcome. The damage would be healed effectively a couple of seconds later. Unless solace/penance is unloaded just before a jolt that is. However a disc in that phase can dramatically reduce one shots by PWSing targets with matter swap and dispelling it early, that reduces the damage going to the matter swap soakers and makes it easier to keep them alive. It also means that you can better control the matter swap damage so that you can avoid it happening very close to a jolt.

    That does not mean you should not use solace/penance on CD. Let us not forget evangelism and archangel, but I think the real value of a disc priest on DA is not atonement, which is does not bear the brunt of keeping people alive, but PWS on matter swaps, which helps stabilise and control a very unpredictable source of damage.
    I don't need to check logs to know that smart-healing spells picking the lowest HP target in the raid saves lives, especially on a fight like Animus with the constant ticking debuff. Penance/Solace is what keeps people from dying BEFORE the other healers gets to use their spells to top people off. I also don't see how Penance could save someone, and solace couldn't? A solace hits for about the same as one penance bolt. In a scenario like Jolt where everyone's extremely low, your penance is going to end up healing the 3 lowest targets for the ~50K (plus possible absorbs) - not one target for 150K. So a solace would just mean the 4 lowest targets for 200K :7.

    And yes, PW:S is a giant part of disc being OP as hell on animus, no disagreements there. Preventing the burst damage from happening is key.


    Quote Originally Posted by h3lladvocate View Post
    This 1000%. I remember doing H Lei Shi testing on the PTR(Beta) and it was holy crap insane tank damage, and then doing it live and it was like "LOL ATONEMENT SPAM WOOOOOOO".

    Disc are great tank healers thought. Yes, I think they are better raid heals with Atonement and such, but holy crap I can put out tank numbers like a boss if I need too (gonna be even better with 100% DI and higher FDLC proc chances)

    Now, can we get back to the OT?
    To be fair, the topic has been answered. Mathematically, no, using TF pieces will not be a gain over the 4 set.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    Here's the thing - the level of play does have something to say. As mentioned, picking between disc or holy won't matter for you, because you're not challenged with the same difficulties as other people have been in lesser gear. Things were absolutely in danger of 1 shotting you on twin's progress with 10 item levels less, and the enrage was *far* tighter. Your kill lasted almost 9 minutes - the enrage is 10. Imagine having to do it with 10 item levels less than you just did.
    It's also not a "view" that *I* have that all healers must fit a niche - it's a view blizzard has, and as such, every healer DOES fill a niche. If healers did NOT have niches, then you'd be able to use mistweaver monks as effective tank healers, resto shamans as AOE-raid healers when you're spread, etc - you're not, though.
    The fact is that some healers do better in one role, and some do in another. You can't dispute that, and having a healer not do the role they are most efficient at, will not be a benefit.

    And how do you know you wouldn't have been alive, if you had been disc?
    the "little off dps" is also incredible on progress. I already stated why, but the next time you go holy and you wipe at 15M, I want you to know that if you'd been disc instead, it would have been a kill. And the chance that the extra healing you could do as holy would have been absolutely vital is extremely low.
    And does disc need more tools than bringing DPS+preventing high burst deaths? No one dies due to constant ticking damage if there's a mistweaver or a druid in the raid. The only class that can effectively prevent the one shots are disc priests.
    I know with absolute certainty that we would not have survived because the only person alive at the end was the tank, which is why the kill lasted nearly 10 minutes. If I was unable to provide the HPS I did we would have wiped. Actually with disc we would have wiped when I used divine hymn towards the end. That divine hymn barely kept us alive through that phase and disc has nothing equivalent. This was just an example of things going wrong. Normally we don't get any casualties and kill it at 7min or so. It may be extreme but that just shows the difference in healing power between disc and holy on 25man.


    No matter how you twist and turn it, the damage disc does is extremely significant on high end progress in both raid modes. Any boss where you've had a sub-15M in 25 man without a disc, it would have been a kill. Heck, we killed Garajal the first reset purely because we could drop to 4 main healers +1x disc, and killed it right on the enrage. Think back to Ultraxion too - killing it in the last second during the enrage cast was extremely common, and you'd usually have 4 healers +1x disc atonement spammer (this was BEFORE atonement was as good as it is today, by the way. That says a little something about how highly the DPS is valued).
    We didn't have the DPS to 5 heal garajal hc despite doing him at probably 5 weeks after you did. We FOUR healed it instead to get a kill and used two disc priests, who didn't have time to smite at all other than penance and holy fire, because they were busy keeping the voodoo dolls alive. We killed it after dropping a healer and having the disc priests heal more and atonement less. Did you try just 4 healing it with your hybrids off-healing or went for 4+1atonement in all tries.

    Sub-15m is not enough to tell you that a disc would have made the difference. It has to be sub15m with everyone alive and the boss enraging. Soft enrage bosses where you can buy a couple of seconds with heavy healing favour high HPS healers. You don't know whether the 4-5seconds you gain with DPS from disc make more difference than being able to survive longer at the end.




    I don't need to check logs to know that smart-healing spells picking the lowest HP target in the raid saves lives, especially on a fight like Animus with the constant ticking debuff. Penance/Solace is what keeps people from dying BEFORE the other healers gets to use their spells to top people off. I also don't see how Penance could save someone, and solace couldn't? A solace hits for about the same as one penance bolt. In a scenario like Jolt where everyone's extremely low, your penance is going to end up healing the 3 lowest targets for the ~50K (plus possible absorbs) - not one target for 150K. So a solace would just mean the 4 lowest targets for 200K :7.
    You don't know. You are assuming. I look at the death and incoming damage logs after every fight carefully and frequently see a death of this sort after jolt: Atonement heal 50k, anima font 100k (100k overkilll). I also frequently see jolt hits like this: atonement 50k, hot tick 20k overheal, hot tick 10k overheal, hot tick 15k overheal, jolt 400k. I also frequently see this pattern after a jolt, revival/tranq hits followed by anima font then 2-3 penance ticks. A lot of what people think about disc absorbs is mostly assumptions, which seem logical and attractive, but don't necessary match up with reality.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Havoc12 View Post
    That divine hymn barely kept us alive through that phase and disc has nothing equivalent.



    lol Spirit Shell kills that and its a minute cd. With SS up you woulda topped off the raid no problem. There is a reason they took Divine Hymn from Disc and because we would be so op it would be laughable lmao imagine SS spam followed by a Hymn lol but yea full stack Archangel with Power infusion inner focus and an int pot is ridonkulous

  18. #38
    Stood in the Fire espoire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Szer View Post
    bs

    1000 int and 1000 secondary stats cant give you 3% of total healing done.

    End of story.
    Actually, 1000 int is almost exactly 3% raw throughput. Probably all overheal though if we were gonna win that fight anyway.

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