Self buffed Chaos bolts are over 3 million with this trinket at 553 item level (my ptr toon), the damage is absoloutely stupid because i can fit more in that 20 second window than what i can maybe get for the next 40 seconds.
Id like to see a passive version of the trinket getting made for casters because no matter what you do with this version its going to cause uncontrollable amounts of damage and abilities are going to get nerfed because of it, but you have to remember this is the highest our secondaries have ever been and this is an experiment for blizzard.
Like ive pointed out before you cant really nerf the damage bonus because it maths out to be the equal of the passive one except that its really not in reality, but thats how blizzard do there math and this is normally fixed via hot fix's.
To give an example of just how dumb this trinket is going to be and the sort of nerfs it could cause.
Average combustion tick - 750k
Ticks per second - 3
Duration - 20 seconds
Total damage - 2,250,000 (per second)
Nerf either its ability to gain extra ticks with haste so it would tick 20 times instead of 60, this means combustion would go from doing 2.25 million dps on the pull to 750k (under full buffs), this would also make it crap anytime you dont have the trinket - No way to balance this both ways.
Change the spell to go with current ignite and let it continue to keep scaling with haste
I dont really think either option is good, but this is the problem, some casters like Destro and Fire scale like monsters from this trinket and will only get stronger, class's like Ele which have 2 caps on haste (because so little of there damage scales after the Global cooldown cap) and mastery (because it does nothing after 100%) dont get anywhere near as much you cant really nerf it that much.
TL;DR - The trinket is way to overpowered when class's can stick a huge amount of damage into a small window, the question is how overpowered is it for the majority as thats where the outiers should be brung to.
@ above - It doesn't matter if they nerf it down to where other casters might not prefer the trinket because there are more than two trinkets to choose from. Not really something they'd need to worry about unless there are only two trinkets total. I didn't see them buffing the lei shen trinket so fire could use it for an example.
Last edited by Turkey One; 2013-07-14 at 10:02 AM.
Crit proc one - Useles during opener does absoloutely nothing during your burst cd's which is where you want your trinkets.
Multistrike - Atm this really doesnt math out to be that great and it is still useless in burst
Cleave - Doesnt even hit the primary target
Stacking int - This is fine
Amp - Even though the benfit is small, its bigger than the others above except the stacking int one
All the trinkets this tier are an int proc which is fine for all the casters so fire wouldnt have any reason to want UVLS.
Multistrike is crap for many specs (especially DoT users) because it could proc on a tiny attack rather than a big one. Most likely going to be crap for Fire unless you get very lucky (more luck? JUST what Fire needs!), but I could see some moderate use for Arcane or Frost.
Int passive Crit proc is shit for specs that don't use crit (Worthless for Frost, meh for Arcane)
Leaving only the Haste passive "Wush 2.0" and Amp trinkets. I feel like they messed up big time with these trinkets overall. There's no real way to balance them together when MS is so random and Crit procs aren't that helpful for most casters (as Haste is the more universal stat, or even Mastery being a pretty moderate one. Very few casters want Crit over Haste); Cleave just being a shit trinket overall because there aren't that many situations where it will prove too helpful.
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With T16, I see 95% of casters wanting Amp and "Wush 2.0"; the other 5% trying out the "lesser" trinkets, or Fire Mages trying the crit proc.
Was kind of the responses I was hoping for so I could ask this. So the master plan is to balance certain specs around having the trinket so that more classes can use the trinket rather than just nerfing the trinket and also buffing one of the useless trinkets into something useful? Not saying it couldn't work but it seems kind of cutting edge focused and pays no attention to all the guys who aren't so great. Even better idea? A direct nerf to the trinket, not the abilities of specific classes, only when equipped by said classes. Granted that is way more obvious than what Blizzard usually goes for but seems to be a lot less work and a lot more fair to players who aren't able to acquire said trinkets.
not really directed at anyone specifically but this makes way more sense than nerfing abilities/classes under the assuption that the player has the trinket.
Last edited by Turkey One; 2013-07-14 at 10:29 AM.
Pretty spot on, I think as Destruction ill want to run the crit proc and amp trinkets together simply because they have the same ICD and ill run mastery > crit in t16, outside of that the only one ill even look at is the wush 2.0 one and choice between those 3 is basically what every caster will want, even look at boomkins, for them to use the crit proc trinket they really wouldnt gain that much (and would actually probably lose compared to the t15 trinkets).
The trinkets this tier are going to put a really big spanner in the works.
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Id love an answer to that, this is basically the same discussion i had on the warlock forums last week where i said the difference that the 4 part and the amp trinket is going to make such a huge impact on the spec are blizzard going to decide its ok to balance the class's around these items or just let them roll face when they do get them.
Whichever end of the blade blizzard decides to balance on is going to make a huge difference to some specs.
Jinrohk - yeah great use of cleave
Horridon- ok useful there
Council- useful there
Tortos - hoping that the proc lines up when the turtles are under tortos, no thanks unless you're padding on bats
Megara- u wanna cleave the heads to pad meter? No thanks Jeff
Jikun- adds already easy to kill, no thanks Jeff
Durumu- maybe ok for ice walls but I'd rather have a stat proc still
Primodius- still used for cleave padding
Dark animus - u wanna wipe your raid by hitting the wrong targets? Yeah ok cleave trinket good for that
Iron qon - nope
Twins - nope
Lei Shen- not really good, balls die too quickly thanks to warlocks
Yeah the cleave trinket is reAllY good, do u even heroic raids brah?
I could easily see use on Council, but not many others (Not even Horridon because it's too RNG and adds are often spread out)
Other than that, your list is spot on.
Horrid on adds aren't too spread out, I don't know how your guild handles it but even Vykina suggests using combustion on one set of adds to maximize dps. But even then it's not a big deal to argue over, I was just giving him the benefit of the doubt cause his comment was pretty stupid
Last edited by fearist; 2013-07-14 at 11:09 PM.
I think the use of the cleave trinket may be for the size of the NEXT instance, not Throne, there seems to be plenty of room for trash, and when I mean plenty, I mean possible thousands of millions of trillions of trash. When there is a lot of trash, a good 700K crit that translates into a cleave on a possible 20 other mobs is a lot of damage.
Am I alone in thinking that (for Fire) none of these trinkets, besides Amplification, will outperform a 549 Cha-Ye?
The crit proc pairs extremely well with Amp, and I had them for every single combustion over a 10 minute span regularly without having to wait more than a few seconds once combustion was ready. But, at inflated gear, how much of that crit gets wasted? You can run mage armor for every combustion, but even then, I assume we'll be hard crit capped when it procs, especially with the heroic version. So, do you hope Wush 2.0 procs with Amp? Mastermind is always up for the opener, so it may not be as cut and dried as people think.
Dunno in how many threads I have posted that, but with the crit proc trinket and amplifier, I would reforge to ~40 - 45% crit then mastery. I made same experiences as you, the trinkets synergize every combustion. Mastermind is there for every opener, but after that its like lottery.