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  1. #101
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    A few changes to our trinkets (besides visual effects) came with the latest PTR update. I tested 2 Trinkets with Arcane and Frost in ~10:30 Minutes each

    Trinkets equipped for tests: Kardris Toxic Totem: & Alpha and Omega
    Buffs: Appropriate Armour, Flask and Food (1000/300)

    Arcane: Tier 15 4p, 38.057 SP, 13,905 haste (32.72%), 6,258 Crit (25.47%) and 13,056 mastery (59.52%) 246k DPS
    Frost: Tier 15 4p, 38.057 SP, 17,540 haste (51,16%), 6,258 Crit (25.47%) and 6,407 mastery (37,36%) 207K DPS



    Kardris Toxic Totem:

    Attacks now have a 19.6% (was 9.9%) to trigger Multistrike, which deals instant additional damage to your target equal to 1/3 of original damage dealt

    Tested it with Frost and Arcane both 10 Minutes.

    Arcane: Minimum 11.3 Maximum: 256.7k Avg: 55.5k Overall damage 7.9%
    Frost: Minmum 6.2k Maximum: 56k Avg 28.4k Overall damage 3.1%


    Just another example how good Arcane scales, nice spec and with the new big rune maybe the go to spec in 5.4. Arcane Mages have a huge benefit from the trinket and have now 3 pretty nice trinkets in SoO so far. Looking forward to copy ~3 million Arcane Barrages.
    For Frost it`s just .... nice new Water Elemental and shiny new Icicles, but damage, scaling and situations like this shows the weakness of the spec. Defnitely not a frost mage trinket in its current state.

    Alpha and Omega

    Your attacks have a chance to trigger Wrath of the Darkspear for 20s While WotD is active, each time you cast a spell you gain 2,350 Intellect, stacking up to 10 times (0.61 PPM)


    Tested it with both Frost and Fire:

    Arcane uptime: 38.6% with 13,905 haste
    Frost uptime: 36.9% with 17,540 haste

    This trinket has a huge uptime with 0.61 PPM (Wushoolay 0.56, Breath 0.53) and is perfect for Arcane, because you gain 6 of 10 Stacks with only 1 Arcane Missile. 10 Stacks (23500 Intellect) for 15 seconds are no curiosity with Arcane. We will see 3 Million Arcane Barrages in SoO with this trinket.

    Frost on the other hand will have a good burst, thanks to Frozen Orb, but ouside of Frozen Orb, Frost stacks slowest. But due to have no other choices as Frost (Multistrike is pretty worse just like 11.7k Crit trinket and the Frenzied Crystal of Rage (received a buff, now 4.35%), this is your trinket. As a loot distributer in our guild, you will have to wait for a new trinkets as frost mage, because there are other spec and classes who benefit way more from all the trinkets in SoO.


    One word to Purified Bindings of Immerseues, the "amplification trinket":

    Every second Invocation you will have Expanded Mind buff (105s ICD, 20s duration). With 50% haste, that`s 5% overall, where you deal 0% damage while Expanded Mind buff up. It is another Level 90 chore and pretty annoying in my opinion.
    Last edited by citizenpete; 2013-07-30 at 04:49 AM.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by citizenpete View Post
    A few changes to our trinkets (besides visual effects) came with the latest PTR update. I tested 2 Trinkets with Arcane and Frost in ~10:30 Minutes each

    Trinkets equipped for tests: Kardris Toxic Totem: & Alpha and Omega
    Buffs: Appropriate Armour, Flask and Food (1000/300)

    Arcane: Tier 15 4p, 38.057 SP, 13,905 haste (32.72%), 6,258 Crit (25.47%) and 13,056 mastery (59.52%) 246k DPS
    Frost: Tier 15 4p, 38.057 SP, 17,540 haste (51,16%), 6,258 Crit (25.47%) and 6,407 mastery (37,36%) 207K DPS



    Kardris Toxic Totem:

    Attacks now have a 19.6% (was 9.9%) to trigger Multistrike, which deals instant additional damage to your target equal to 1/3 of original damage dealt

    Tested it with Frost and Arcane both 10 Minutes.

    Arcane: Minimum 11.3 Maximum: 256.7k Avg: 55.5k Overall damage 7.9%
    Frost: Minmum 6.2k Maximum: 56k Avg 28.4k Overall damage 3.1%


    Just another example how good Arcane scales, nice spec and with the new big rune maybe the go to spec in 5.4. Arcane Mages have a huge benefit from the trinket and have now 3 pretty nice trinkets in SoO so far. Looking forward to copy ~3 million Arcane Barrages.
    For Frost it`s just .... nice new Water Elemental and shiny new Icicles, but damage, scaling and situations like this shows the weakness of the spec. Defnitely not a frost mage trinket in its current state.

    Alpha and Omega

    Your attacks have a chance to trigger Wrath of the Darkspear for 20s While WotD is active, each time you cast a spell you gain 2,350 Intellect, stacking up to 10 times (0.61 PPM)


    Tested it with both Frost and Fire:

    Arcane uptime: 38.6% with 13,905 haste
    Frost uptime: 36.9% with 17,540 haste

    This trinket has a huge uptime with 0.61 PPM (Wushoolay 0.56, Breath 0.53) and is perfect for Arcane, because you gain 6 of 10 Stacks with only 1 Arcane Missile. 10 Stacks (23500 Intellect) for 15 seconds are no curiosity with Arcane. We will see 3 Million Arcane Barrages in SoO with this trinket.

    Frost on the other hand will have a good burst, thanks to Frozen Orb, but ouside of Frozen Orb, Frost stacks slowest. But due to have no other choices as Frost (Multistrike is pretty worse just like 11.7k Crit trinket and the Frenzied Crystal of Rage (received a buff, now 4.35%), this is your trinket. As a loot distributer in our guild, you will have to wait for a new trinkets as frost mage, because there are other spec and classes who benefit way more from all the trinkets in SoO.


    One word to Purified Bindings of Immerseues, the "amplification trinket":

    Every second Invocation you will have Expanded Mind buff (105s ICD, 20s duration). With 50% haste, that`s 5% overall, where you deal 0% damage while Expanded Mind buff up. It is another Level 90 chore and pretty annoying in my opinion.

    I'm shocked the amp trinket isn't going to be great, that multi-strike trinket may only be useful for arcane mages lol...Well then. What boss does it drop off of?

  3. #103
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    Didn´t say it´s not great, the Int proc uptime will be around 19% and the 14% for Crit Damage, Haste and Mastery are not bad, a few more tests will reveal frost and arcane benefits. It´s pretty nice to have 3 strong trinkets as Arcane.
    Last edited by citizenpete; 2013-07-30 at 07:13 AM.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by citizenpete View Post
    Didn´t say it´s not great, the Int proc uptime will be around 19% and the 14% for Crit Damage, Haste and Mastery are not bad, a few more tests will reveal frost and arcane benefits. It´s pretty nice to have 3 strong trinkets as Arcane.

    It's weird that the multi-strike for arcane should come out as 3.33% of your total dmg, but for me it was coming out 5.7-5.8%... So weird.

    19.6% of 100m is 19.6m divded by 3 is ....6.5 ....hmm. Where did I do my math wrong originally lol.


    6.5% of your overall dmg though is a really strong trinket isn't it? I don't know how the math of bindings of immerseus vs. the multi-strike will work out though. I know for arcane alpha and omega is a MUST. The cleave one will be interchangeable on constant cleave fights I suppose. Really looking forward to arcane in t16.
    Last edited by Vynestra; 2013-07-30 at 08:03 AM.

  5. #105
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    Kardris Toxic Totem (Multistrike) was buffed (up from 9.9%), thats the reason why you get 5.5 - 8% overall damage (depends on copied spells). It´s pretty decent now (as already written in my test ^^) for Arcane. Frost hast too much little and weak spells, that´s why I got 3.1%. Funny that Waterbolt can be copied, but not stack a trinket.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by citizenpete View Post
    One word to Purified Bindings of Immerseues, the "amplification trinket":

    Every second Invocation you will have Expanded Mind buff (105s ICD, 20s duration). With 50% haste, that`s 5% overall, where you deal 0% damage while Expanded Mind buff up. It is another Level 90 chore and pretty annoying in my opinion.
    Wouldn't that mean we have to invo, lets say 35 sec before pull (or as u want ~10 sec after the trinket expire) to bring invo and trinket into a rotation they dont overlap.

  7. #107
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    Something like that Tomathan - if nothing unexpected happen during the fight. I think every frost mage knows, that he has to refresh early if he was lacking procs because of mana. By breaking T15 4p, we are losing a good chunk of FoF procs.
    Arcane and Fire already have to deal with it a little bit because of Arcane Power, but Fire already start to evocate @ 7 or 8s before the pull because of mirrors and hardcasting pyro, seems to work okay.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomathan View Post
    Wouldn't that mean we have to invo, lets say 35 sec before pull (or as u want ~10 sec after the trinket expire) to bring invo and trinket into a rotation they dont overlap.
    No, cause invocation x2 is not the same as 1x amp trinket, 2x invoc is something like 124(118 from first spells that proc AMP usually) secs and AMP is 110 or so.. We will run into the amp trinket proc being on at invocation timing on every third time on average and the very second proc from pull, unless you cut invocation short, which will increase the times to every second or every invocation. Refreshing invocation early with AMP trinket proc coming is the worst thing you want to do if you want to avoid them stacking for the next proc. You either need to refresh during the proc, or let the proc fall off and refresh after it. In those 2 scenarios you won't get another stacking till 2-3 more amp procs. I would much rather cast 2 and something seconds of invoc with 12k int proc every 2-3 mins than cast invocation short every 45-50 seconds.

  9. #109
    I have a question about the modified RPPM following blue post:

    -----

    We think the cooldown lineup at the start of PvE encounters has gotten out of hand, and it’s having some rather negative effects on gameplay. Particularly with the number of RPPM procs most raiders have these days, the pull has just become way too important. It’s affecting gearing, it’s punishing classes that can’t capitalize on it as well as others, and it’s not how we’d like raiding to work.

    To that end, we’re going to make another change to how RPPM mechanics work on the pull. Starting a raid encounter will set every RPPM proc’s “time since last proc” to 90 seconds. That means the more frequent procs will still be more or less guaranteed to go off, but the rarer (and more powerful) procs will just have a high chance. This should hopefully chill things out a little bit, without changing how you play too dramatically.

    Can we clarify what 'rarer' RPPM procs are? We talking the meta-gem here?
    We're not changing the actual RPPM proc rates at all, just how much time is "banked" before the pull. The underlying math that determines what the actual chances are isn't changing.

    So, here's a couple hypothetical examples using very rough napkin math. I don't remember RPPMs for actual trinkets off the top of my head (and they're not particularly necessary for illustration purposes):

    Trinket A has an RPPM that allows it to reach a 100% proc chance if it hasn't fired after 60 seconds. This trinket will have a guaranteed proc on the pull.

    Trinket B has an RPPM that allows it to reach a 100% proc chance if it hasn't fired after 100 seconds. It will not be guaranteed to proc immediately, but will proc within the first 10 seconds.

    Trinket C has an RPPM that allows it to reach a 100% proc chance after 2 minutes. It will not be guaranteed to proc immediately (regardless of how much time you've spent out of combat), but will proc within the first 30 seconds.

    -----

    Obviously this is a mechanic Fire mages can abuse the most out of all the DPS specs in the game due to Combustion. The way I see this, is that people who were waiting before pulls will be affected negatively by this change and people who didn't bother waiting before pulling will be positively affected by this.

    Taking the Trinket A and B as examples, and setting them as : A= Cha-Ye's and B= Wusholay, this means that Cha-ye's (75 secs RPPM) is assured to proc and Wush (100 sec RPPM) will proc within 10 secs of the pull.

    I don't really see the intended nerf. Currently, I can wait for Wush to proc for 30 secs on the pull sometimes, while swearing for that entire 30 seconds about that stupid proc. Now I will be assured that from t = 0 to t = 10, I will have the Cha-Ye's buff, and then at t = 11 my Wush will proc up to t = 31. The best case scenario will simply be that both proc together.

    Am I reading this wrong?

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Sombrelune View Post
    With AM stacking it very fast? I get it, but is this intended?
    If so, I hope that Icicles will stack it fast too. I havn' t check yet.
    AM has always stacked trinkets like that very fast, Illustration of the Dragon Soul and Muradin's Spyglass were a couple from wrath that worked like that. So that's been the intention for at least the past 5 years of wow, doubt that they would change it now (but you never know).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by MrExcelion View Post
    Alpha and Omega is also the only trinket on realppm right now, everything else is boring non-scaling ICD. I'll definitely be gunning for A&O + Amp since it'll good for all 3 specs, but I guess every other caster will too.

    Amp trinket drops from the first boss, what about A&O? I'm thinking either Norushen (name is titan-like), but it could be Garrosh too.
    One man's boring is another man's "thank goodness I don't have to wait 45 seconds to pray for a proc adding rng on top of rng on top of rng for my opening combustion sequence."

  11. #111
    High Overlord Huevos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solidpat View Post
    I have a question about the modified RPPM following blue post:

    -----

    We think the cooldown lineup at the start of PvE encounters has gotten out of hand, and it’s having some rather negative effects on gameplay. Particularly with the number of RPPM procs most raiders have these days, the pull has just become way too important. It’s affecting gearing, it’s punishing classes that can’t capitalize on it as well as others, and it’s not how we’d like raiding to work.

    To that end, we’re going to make another change to how RPPM mechanics work on the pull. Starting a raid encounter will set every RPPM proc’s “time since last proc” to 90 seconds. That means the more frequent procs will still be more or less guaranteed to go off, but the rarer (and more powerful) procs will just have a high chance. This should hopefully chill things out a little bit, without changing how you play too dramatically.

    Can we clarify what 'rarer' RPPM procs are? We talking the meta-gem here?
    We're not changing the actual RPPM proc rates at all, just how much time is "banked" before the pull. The underlying math that determines what the actual chances are isn't changing.

    So, here's a couple hypothetical examples using very rough napkin math. I don't remember RPPMs for actual trinkets off the top of my head (and they're not particularly necessary for illustration purposes):

    Trinket A has an RPPM that allows it to reach a 100% proc chance if it hasn't fired after 60 seconds. This trinket will have a guaranteed proc on the pull.

    Trinket B has an RPPM that allows it to reach a 100% proc chance if it hasn't fired after 100 seconds. It will not be guaranteed to proc immediately, but will proc within the first 10 seconds.

    Trinket C has an RPPM that allows it to reach a 100% proc chance after 2 minutes. It will not be guaranteed to proc immediately (regardless of how much time you've spent out of combat), but will proc within the first 30 seconds.

    -----

    Obviously this is a mechanic Fire mages can abuse the most out of all the DPS specs in the game due to Combustion. The way I see this, is that people who were waiting before pulls will be affected negatively by this change and people who didn't bother waiting before pulling will be positively affected by this.

    Taking the Trinket A and B as examples, and setting them as : A= Cha-Ye's and B= Wusholay, this means that Cha-ye's (75 secs RPPM) is assured to proc and Wush (100 sec RPPM) will proc within 10 secs of the pull.

    I don't really see the intended nerf. Currently, I can wait for Wush to proc for 30 secs on the pull sometimes, while swearing for that entire 30 seconds about that stupid proc. Now I will be assured that from t = 0 to t = 10, I will have the Cha-Ye's buff, and then at t = 11 my Wush will proc up to t = 31. The best case scenario will simply be that both proc together.

    Am I reading this wrong?
    Yes, you're reading that wrong. The proc rate on your Wush isn't being changed at all. His example wasn't particularly well conceived and wasn't meant for existing trinkets to be substituted in for A or B. All this change does is lower the maximum multiplier on your chance to proc by waiting for the trinkets to "charge" pre-pull. You'll still often have to wait ~30 seconds on Wush (in fact that will happen more often after this goes live), except now you won't benefit from waiting 5 minutes between pulls and having it proc immediately. It still can, but it'll be much less likely.

    Enjoy Wush or Breath popping during AT more often after this change. Sometimes the changes they come up with make me wonder if they actually play the game. How could someone think this is a "fix"?
    Last edited by Huevos; 2013-07-31 at 07:14 PM.

  12. #112
    Bloodsail Admiral Nathyiel's Avatar
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    They did this change to reduce the guaranteed proc at the start of fight. So trinket/enchant with high ppm will still proc 100% and lower ppm will be less guaranteed at start but it keep an higher proc rate to make it still proc rapidly after pull.

    Conclusion : less absurd pull's burst without nerfing DPS too much.
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  13. #113
    The change kind of makes me just want to get trinkets that I know will proc on the pull for Combustion.

  14. #114
    I am going to enjoy the new multi-strike, rather than having to pray on a second rppm trinket for my burst -- I only need one, and I know my multi-strike will end up getting some benefit from the trinket every time, except with terrible rng..But I will just need to wait for one proc...Not two. That makes me feel comfortable. I obviously will go with the best two, but I am liking the look of multi-strike/alpha and omega. I hate the fact multi-strike has crit on it...ugh. That sucks lol

  15. #115
    But how is this a nerf to our current trinkets?

    They clearly stated:

    Trinket A has an RPPM that allows it to reach a 100% proc chance if it hasn't fired after 60 seconds. This trinket will have a guaranteed proc on the pull.

    Cha-Ye's : 0.8085 RealPPM : 1/0.8085 = 1.24 coefficient. So that gives you a 1.24 * 60 seconds = 74 seconds

    Trinket B has an RPPM that allows it to reach a 100% proc chance if it hasn't fired after 100 seconds. It will not be guaranteed to proc immediately, but will proc within the first 10 seconds.

    Wusholay's: 0.588 RealPPM : 1/0.588 = 1.7 coefficient. So that gives you a 1.7 * 60 seconds = 102 seconds

    This means that in 5.4, Cha-Ye's will proc at the pull no matter what. It also means that Wush will proc within 12 seconds no matter what (102-90), as said by the example in trinket B.

    Won't this change make the trinkets even more predictable than they currently are, in a sense even better? I understand that camping 90 secs before the pull is gone, but that being said, I find this change makes it easier to line up Combustions.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Solidpat View Post
    But how is this a nerf to our current trinkets?

    They clearly stated:

    Trinket A has an RPPM that allows it to reach a 100% proc chance if it hasn't fired after 60 seconds. This trinket will have a guaranteed proc on the pull.

    Cha-Ye's : 0.8085 RealPPM : 1/0.8085 = 1.24 coefficient. So that gives you a 1.24 * 60 seconds = 74 seconds

    Trinket B has an RPPM that allows it to reach a 100% proc chance if it hasn't fired after 100 seconds. It will not be guaranteed to proc immediately, but will proc within the first 10 seconds.

    Wusholay's: 0.588 RealPPM : 1/0.588 = 1.7 coefficient. So that gives you a 1.7 * 60 seconds = 102 seconds

    This means that in 5.4, Cha-Ye's will proc at the pull no matter what. It also means that Wush will proc within 12 seconds no matter what (102-90), as said by the example in trinket B.

    Won't this change make the trinkets even more predictable than they currently are, in a sense even better? I understand that camping 90 secs before the pull is gone, but that being said, I find this change makes it easier to line up Combustions.
    Exept now it's almost certain that you won't get cha-yes and wushoo/breath at the same time on pulls, which is around 33% nerf to our starter combustions.

  17. #117
    For Kardri's Toxic Totem: 20% chance of 1/3 damage = ~6.5% more damage overall. We can expect such results for Arcane and Fire, a bit less for Frost due to pet.

  18. #118
    High Overlord Huevos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solidpat View Post
    But how is this a nerf to our current trinkets?

    They clearly stated:

    Trinket A has an RPPM that allows it to reach a 100% proc chance if it hasn't fired after 60 seconds. This trinket will have a guaranteed proc on the pull.

    Cha-Ye's : 0.8085 RealPPM : 1/0.8085 = 1.24 coefficient. So that gives you a 1.24 * 60 seconds = 74 seconds

    Trinket B has an RPPM that allows it to reach a 100% proc chance if it hasn't fired after 100 seconds. It will not be guaranteed to proc immediately, but will proc within the first 10 seconds.

    Wusholay's: 0.588 RealPPM : 1/0.588 = 1.7 coefficient. So that gives you a 1.7 * 60 seconds = 102 seconds

    This means that in 5.4, Cha-Ye's will proc at the pull no matter what. It also means that Wush will proc within 12 seconds no matter what (102-90), as said by the example in trinket B.

    Won't this change make the trinkets even more predictable than they currently are, in a sense even better? I understand that camping 90 secs before the pull is gone, but that being said, I find this change makes it easier to line up Combustions.
    I'm fairly certain that math isn't correct. I think it's a lot more complicated than that - haste fits into the equation, and your chance to proc is lower if your last chance to proc was more recent. I also don't think you are ever truly guaranteed for a proc to happen, just very likely, and I think once you enter combat the charge rate on your multiplier stacks more slowly.

    This is absolutely a nerf, there is no way that your trinkets could proc more reliably or predictably with this change, because the highest possibly chance for them to proc upon entering combat is now significantly lower. Thus, the chance for it to proc after 10 or 15 seconds if it still hasn't procced is lower, since the starting point was lower.

    Maybe someone can provide some accurate math on this since I'm more or less paraphrasing from what I remember about some blue posts when they first buffed RPPM trinkets around the start of ToT.

  19. #119
    ...With some testing, for arcane I actually found alpha and omega + bindings to be way better than multi-strike. By quite a few million at that.


    Lol did another test did about 6m worse because I only had 1 alpha and omega proc in 3 minutes..I usually get 2-3...which apparently does a SHIT ton of dmg..It's a shame the proc makes or breaks your dps.


    EDIT: In a 3 minute period with my live gear http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...zad/Cherlloyd/ on ptr with the legendary cloak I did 35m dmg.

    In a 3 minute period with the same gear, except trinkets I am using alpha and omega, plus the bindings....I did 50m dmg.


    I got 2 procs on each trinket in 3 minutes, use cds + TW, and 2 pots.

    No food no flask, no raid buffs (which hurts arcanes dummy testing)

    You are telling me, these two trinkets alone do 15m more damage? it was like 47m the other test. That is CRAZY.

    Also 3 minute = about 195 seconds, so 3 minutes and 15 seconds.
    Last edited by Vynestra; 2013-08-01 at 05:31 AM.

  20. #120
    Mechagnome Zatetic's Avatar
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    Are the two different amplification trinkets mutually exclusive?

    It seems to me that if they arent using them in unison is a clear winner because the equip provides 28% mast/crit/haste in 2 slots.

    http://ptr.wowdb.com/items/102299-pr...rison-of-pride
    http://ptr.wowdb.com/items/102293-pu...s-of-immerseus

    I cant really see any of the other trinkets providing as much of a sustained increase as these two if they work in unison.

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