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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Vynestra View Post
    ...With some testing, for arcane I actually found alpha and omega + bindings to be way better than multi-strike. By quite a few million at that.


    Lol did another test did about 6m worse because I only had 1 alpha and omega proc in 3 minutes..I usually get 2-3...which apparently does a SHIT ton of dmg..It's a shame the proc makes or breaks your dps.


    EDIT: In a 3 minute period with my live gear http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...zad/Cherlloyd/ on ptr with the legendary cloak I did 35m dmg.

    In a 3 minute period with the same gear, except trinkets I am using alpha and omega, plus the bindings....I did 50m dmg.


    I got 2 procs on each trinket in 3 minutes, use cds + TW, and 2 pots.

    No food no flask, no raid buffs (which hurts arcanes dummy testing)

    You are telling me, these two trinkets alone do 15m more damage? it was like 47m the other test. That is CRAZY.

    Also 3 minute = about 195 seconds, so 3 minutes and 15 seconds.

    Stacking int procs are gna greatly inflate your dps especially over a 3 min check. Take your check upwards of 10 minutes so that the trinket uptimes arent inflated and you might get some real numbers, its no shocker that double stacking int procs gives you burst damage

    Edit - simplified what i wrote
    Last edited by AjayxD; 2013-08-01 at 01:00 PM.

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  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zatetic View Post
    Are the two different amplification trinkets mutually exclusive?

    It seems to me that if they arent using them in unison is a clear winner because the equip provides 28% mast/crit/haste in 2 slots.

    http://ptr.wowdb.com/items/102299-pr...rison-of-pride
    http://ptr.wowdb.com/items/102293-pu...s-of-immerseus

    I cant really see any of the other trinkets providing as much of a sustained increase as these two if they work in unison.
    Sustained increase, yes, maybe... but what about the proc of the healer trinket ("Each time your spells heal..")?

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Smaikiii View Post
    Sustained increase, yes, maybe... but what about the proc of the healer trinket ("Each time your spells heal..")?
    Temporal shield + healing touch via symbiosis? Maybe? No? >.>

  4. #124
    Mechagnome Zatetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smaikiii View Post
    Sustained increase, yes, maybe... but what about the proc of the healer trinket ("Each time your spells heal..")?
    could you run temporal shield or evoc glyph? might be worthwhile regardless. 28% is 28%. with the +50% crit you can get from other pieces that puts you at >78% + >28% mastery + >28% haste. doesnt seem too shabby for fire, really. Nor would it be for arcane. And the higher your stats from other gear, the more valuable it becomes. For frost it probably isnt too great though.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Zatetic View Post
    could you run temporal shield or evoc glyph? might be worthwhile regardless. 28% is 28%. with the +50% crit you can get from other pieces that puts you at >78% + >28% mastery + >28% haste. doesnt seem too shabby for fire, really. Nor would it be for arcane. And the higher your stats from other gear, the more valuable it becomes. For frost it probably isnt too great though.
    Didn't even think of glyph of Evoc healing. Want to test this so bad.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Zatetic View Post
    could you run temporal shield or evoc glyph? might be worthwhile regardless. 28% is 28%. with the +50% crit you can get from other pieces that puts you at >78% + >28% mastery + >28% haste. doesnt seem too shabby for fire, really. Nor would it be for arcane. And the higher your stats from other gear, the more valuable it becomes. For frost it probably isnt too great though.
    That's not how the trinkets work unfortunately, it is 14% critical effect, not rating so instead of a Crit doing 100% extra damage, it does 114%, with both on it would do 128%. For Haste and Mastery it only amplifies ratings, not % so if your at the 5036 haste breakpoint, it would increase your haste to 6446 with both equipped.

    It's an interesting concept but I don't know if it's worth it, especially for Fire. I still think the Crit proc and the Amp will be best, especially with the changes to RPPMs as the stacking Int trinket (Woosh 2.0) already has a lesser chance to proc on pull than the say Che-ya and Breath. This in addition to the Crit and Amp trinkets lining up for every Combustion will still put them ahead I believe. If you can get the Combustion off in the first few seconds of the Amp proc you will also manage to gain 15 of the 20 seconds where Combustion has a 70% chance to crit (assuming base crit of 50%) increasing it's damage further.

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Pspsully View Post
    That's not how the trinkets work unfortunately, it is 14% critical effect, not rating so instead of a Crit doing 100% extra damage, it does 114%, with both on it would do 128%. For Haste and Mastery it only amplifies ratings, not % so if your at the 5036 haste breakpoint, it would increase your haste to 6446 with both equipped.

    It's an interesting concept but I don't know if it's worth it, especially for Fire. I still think the Crit proc and the Amp will be best, especially with the changes to RPPMs as the stacking Int trinket (Woosh 2.0) already has a lesser chance to proc on pull than the say Che-ya and Breath. This in addition to the Crit and Amp trinkets lining up for every Combustion will still put them ahead I believe. If you can get the Combustion off in the first few seconds of the Amp proc you will also manage to gain 15 of the 20 seconds where Combustion has a 70% chance to crit (assuming base crit of 50%) increasing it's damage further.
    I posted about the Crit + Amp trinket awhile back, and totally agree with the RPPM changes that the combo will now be the clear winner. An additional factor which makes it above the others may be the ability to switch to mage armor for combustions and not risk getting a bad combustion. At current gear levels (im at 538) I'm already seeing an increasing portion of my openers be "perfect" combustions. With the added ilvl of next tier and the crit from the trinket, dropping the 5% off molten for 3k mastery could very well be worth it and within the realms of safe crit % for good combustions.

    If this ends up being the case I'll probably keep PoM and work it into the macro I have to use it for insta-mage armor swaps before beginning pyro! spam, and switching back to molten post combustion.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frost1129 View Post
    I posted about the Crit + Amp trinket awhile back, and totally agree with the RPPM changes that the combo will now be the clear winner. An additional factor which makes it above the others may be the ability to switch to mage armor for combustions and not risk getting a bad combustion. At current gear levels (im at 538) I'm already seeing an increasing portion of my openers be "perfect" combustions. With the added ilvl of next tier and the crit from the trinket, dropping the 5% off molten for 3k mastery could very well be worth it and within the realms of safe crit % for good combustions.

    If this ends up being the case I'll probably keep PoM and work it into the macro I have to use it for insta-mage armor swaps before beginning pyro! spam, and switching back to molten post combustion.
    If you're armor swapping, you want glyph of armors unless there is an absolute need not to use it. And with the glyph PoM is much better used on pyro. Even fireball has a longer cast time with the glyph.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Huevos View Post
    If you're armor swapping, you want glyph of armors unless there is an absolute need not to use it. And with the glyph PoM is much better used on pyro. Even fireball has a longer cast time with the glyph.
    Not sure if I agree with that. On your opener you won't ever be using the first PoM since it's inside your combustion window and with 70% crit or whatever with next tier and crit trinket proc odds are you are going to pyro! crit -> pyro! crit and end AT early, without using PoM. This happens a decent percent of the time even with current tier crit ratings. So you'd be wasting 1.5s casting mage armor and only using 1 PoM (The one after AT is canceled, not included in your combustion).

    I guess it'd still be good for building non-AT combustions, but with the crit trinket up it'd still be pretty easy to get a ridiculous ignite going without including the PoM -> Pyro! - actually, it would always lead to better non-AT combustions. Hmmm.
    Last edited by Frost1129; 2013-08-01 at 06:45 PM.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by AjayxD View Post
    Stacking int procs are gna greatly inflate your dps especially over a 3 min check. Take your check upwards of 10 minutes so that the trinket uptimes arent inflated and you might get some real numbers, its no shocker that double stacking int procs gives you burst damage

    Edit - simplified what i wrote
    When burst is so much of our damage, I think having an extremely strong burst is important..I don't know if multi-strike can make up for all that extra damage. I'm going to be betting on alpha and omega + bindings. Multistrike still feels too weak.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Vynestra View Post
    When burst is so much of our damage, I think having an extremely strong burst is important..I don't know if multi-strike can make up for all that extra damage. I'm going to be betting on alpha and omega + bindings. Multistrike still feels too weak.
    You're talking about arcane or fire? I'm assuming arcane since....well...it is you.

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Vynestra View Post
    When burst is so much of our damage, I think having an extremely strong burst is important..I don't know if multi-strike can make up for all that extra damage. I'm going to be betting on alpha and omega + bindings. Multistrike still feels too weak.
    If that works for you great =) but with all the mobility in SoO you will find that you wont always be able to tunnel during procs which is where multistrike comes out stronger (and also buffs your steady damage at the cost of burst, you cant have both), it just comes down to preference, but ye seen as mage dps is basically built around the opener that probably is the best choice for arcane.

    Max damage for patchwork encounters will always be trinkets with buffs you can take advantage of with other cds, the more passive ones will never compete.
    Last edited by AjayxD; 2013-08-01 at 07:28 PM.

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  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by AjayxD View Post
    If that works for you great =) but with all the mobility in SoO you will find that you wont always be able to tunnel during procs which is where multistrike comes out stronger (and also buffs your steady damage at the cost of burst, you cant have both), it just comes down to preference, but ye seen as mage dps is basically built around the opener that probably is the best choice for arcane.

    Max damage for patchwork encounters will always be trinkets with buffs you can take advantage of with other cds, the more passive ones will never compete.
    Yeah I think I am going to go for bindings + alpha and omega...It's a shame they're so strong, I'm going to need to try and get them in lfr, flex and normal...Time to start saving dkp for trinkets when they increase my dmg SO much.

  14. #134
    High Overlord Huevos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frost1129 View Post
    Not sure if I agree with that. On your opener you won't ever be using the first PoM since it's inside your combustion window and with 70% crit or whatever with next tier and crit trinket proc odds are you are going to pyro! crit -> pyro! crit and end AT early, without using PoM. This happens a decent percent of the time even with current tier crit ratings. So you'd be wasting 1.5s casting mage armor and only using 1 PoM (The one after AT is canceled, not included in your combustion).

    I guess it'd still be good for building non-AT combustions, but with the crit trinket up it'd still be pretty easy to get a ridiculous ignite going without including the PoM -> Pyro! - actually, it would always lead to better non-AT combustions. Hmmm.
    If you're running Glyph of Armors, which you want to be if you're armor swapping, your armors take only one global cooldown to cast. They will always be equal, so there's no reason to ever waste PoM on an armor with the glyph. It takes exactly the same amount of time with PoM as without it, the only advantage is that you can move for that ~1.3 seconds if you PoM it. Without the glyph, maybe you burn PoM on it, but it's gonna take a lot to drop the glyph considering it's two lost global cooldowns or one and a wasted PoM every Combustion you switch it for.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Huevos View Post
    If you're running Glyph of Armors, which you want to be if you're armor swapping, your armors take only one global cooldown to cast. They will always be equal, so there's no reason to ever waste PoM on an armor with the glyph. It takes exactly the same amount of time with PoM as without it, the only advantage is that you can move for that ~1.3 seconds if you PoM it. Without the glyph, maybe you burn PoM on it, but it's gonna take a lot to drop the glyph considering it's two lost global cooldowns or one and a wasted PoM every Combustion you switch it for.
    It's not a global with the glyph - for my toon it's a 1.3s cast. It's base 3 - 1.5 - haste influences. I guess that is pretty close to a global. You don't lose any pyros inside your combustion - combustion window is only your 4 most recently ignite-triggering spells. So if you are rolling insane crit (or get lucky on live in good gear) you can Pyro! crit -> pyro! crit -> end AT -> pyro! Crit -> pyro! crit -> combustion -> PoM Pyro. If you PoM Armor you get it as an instant instead of having to cast it (you're wasting the initial PoM in the AT anyways) and then PoM it back. You end up losing a PoM Pyro at the very end (not included in your combustion), which maybe is offset by more time being spent casting good spells with procs and stuff up. You also don't have to switch glyph of evoc out in this situation.
    Last edited by Frost1129; 2013-08-01 at 10:03 PM.

  16. #136
    Mechagnome Zatetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pspsully View Post
    That's not how the trinkets work unfortunately, it is 14% critical effect, not rating so instead of a Crit doing 100% extra damage, it does 114%, with both on it would do 128%. For Haste and Mastery it only amplifies ratings, not % so if your at the 5036 haste breakpoint, it would increase your haste to 6446 with both equipped.

    It's an interesting concept but I don't know if it's worth it, especially for Fire. I still think the Crit proc and the Amp will be best, especially with the changes to RPPMs as the stacking Int trinket (Woosh 2.0) already has a lesser chance to proc on pull than the say Che-ya and Breath. This in addition to the Crit and Amp trinkets lining up for every Combustion will still put them ahead I believe. If you can get the Combustion off in the first few seconds of the Amp proc you will also manage to gain 15 of the 20 seconds where Combustion has a 70% chance to crit (assuming base crit of 50%) increasing it's damage further.
    oh thats unfortunate. Yeh it probably isnt very good to run the healer one then.

  17. #137
    High Overlord Huevos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frost1129 View Post
    It's not a global with the glyph - for my toon it's a 1.3s cast. It's base 3 - 1.5 - haste influences. You don't lose any pyros inside your combustion - combustion window is only your 4 most recently ignite-triggering spells. So if you are rolling insane crit (or get lucky on live in good gear) you can Pyro! crit -> pyro! crit -> end AT -> pyro! Crit -> pyro! crit -> combustion -> PoM Pyro. If you PoM Armor you get it as an instant instead of having to cast it (you're wasting the initial PoM in the AT anyways) and then PoM it back. You end up losing a PoM Pyro at the very end (not included in your combustion), which maybe is offset by more time being spent casting good spells with procs and stuff up. You also don't have to switch glyph of evoc out in this situation.
    Except that that's exactly how long a global cooldown takes at your haste level, 1.3 seconds. If you PoM Molten Armor, at that haste level, you have to wait 1.3 seconds before you can cast your next spell. If you cast Molten Armor, you have to wait 1.3 seconds until you can cast your next spell. Take all your haste gear off and look at the cast time. It'll be 1.5 seconds, which is how long a global cooldown lasts with 0 haste.

    And maybe it's just the way you wrote out your sequence, but you want to combustion after your PoM pyro, so the pyro! before it had time to hit, generally right after you consume PoM and while that pyro is in midair.

    Edit: It's also worth noting that because ignite can theoretically go up to a 6 second duration, with enough haste you probably want to shoot for 5 pyro! crits in your window for combustion. Realistically ignite will probably bounce to 5.5 seconds in there somewhere, which should give you enough time to fit in 5 globals and hit combustion. Probably difficult in practice to pull off, but if the chance the fifth one crits is very high and you still have all your buffs, worth casting to sometimes get the monster combustion.
    Last edited by Huevos; 2013-08-01 at 10:29 PM.

  18. #138
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    http://ptr.wowdb.com/items/105540-kardris-toxic-totem

    Multistrike passive stats got turned into RPPM primary stat proc.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Kuni Zyrekai View Post
    http://ptr.wowdb.com/items/105540-kardris-toxic-totem

    Multistrike passive stats got turned into RPPM primary stat proc.
    Yeah I saw that...That tbh may make the totem better than bindings. Not sure. Someone needs to do the math, but I think the combo of 2 huge rppm int procs, + multistrike is better than the passive amp from bindings.

    But they nerfed the multi-strike chance by a lot...I'm thinking bindings may be better.


    Alpha and omega is no longer alpha and omega. It's black blood of y'shaarj...And it drops off garrosh. No bis trinket til garrosh is dead. *sad face*

    And they nerfed the int it gives...wow....Maybe bindings + multistrike will be good..it looks like they toned the trinkets down a bit.
    Last edited by Vynestra; 2013-08-02 at 02:16 AM.

  20. #140
    Posted this on the lock forum, figured you guys might want it to

    http://ptr.wowdb.com/items/105648-bl...ood-of-yshaarj <--- RPPM

    http://ptr.wowdb.com/items/105540-kardris-toxic-totem <--- RPPM

    http://ptr.wowdb.com/items/105572-fr...rystal-of-rage <--- ICD

    http://ptr.wowdb.com/items/105422-pu...s-of-immerseus <--- ICD

    This only leaves the crit proc trinket now, as far as im aware thats still ICD on the ptr.
    Last edited by AjayxD; 2013-08-02 at 02:53 AM.

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