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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Yingyang View Post
    My opinion on the matter is that the Lich King is still the strongest of all the "villains" we have fought and beat so far. We only wont because Tirion used the only weakness, The Light, at the right time to shatter Frostmourne. Arthas was at War with Yogg and his forces, and he was winning that war. He was chaining up faceless ones, using the blood of Yogg for metal, and probably would have eventually enslaved Yogg himself, proving his was the real "God of Death".

    The Lich King is the only person we have seen so far capable of over powering an Old God and company like that. Cho'gall was working for the Old gods when he fused with C'thun, he didn't just take C'thun for himself. Same with Garrosh right now. He has the heart of a death Old God and is using his powers, but going by the audio file poilers, Yar is perfectly fine in another plane of existence and isn't being controlled in any way.

    The Lich King had the power to surpass Yogg and do with him as he wished. He even created a Plague so strong that, magic seeds from the Emerald Dream,healing flames from Alexstrasza, and even the light being wielded by the strongest Naaru, A'dal couldnt stop it. Having some fun with the "what if" scenarios of what would happen in the Warcraft lore had something changed, I believe that if we didn't stop the Lich King when we did than only the full Legion, a super Old God army from the Twisting Nether, or the Titan pantheon would have been able to stop him, and even then it would have been a massive war, because anything that dies or isn't purged/obliterated might end up on the Lich Kings side.

    You overestimate LK too much and some of your imformations are flat out wrong. LK has never enslaved Yogg. Yogg even knew that soon LK would know that he himself wasn't out of the cycle life and death. LK also has never wage full war against Yogg too. Yogg was imprisioned. LK was also vulnerable to mortal's weapon like plague bomb from forsaken. He was powerful but not to the level of KJ or Archimonde. Archimonde could destroy the whole city of magic by a single spell.. LK couldn't that for sure. DW was also much stronger than LK. He fucking broke the world. LK may not even be the best necromancer because necromancy belongs to the legion in the first place and Kil'jaden taught that to him.
    Last edited by Wildmoon; 2013-07-13 at 02:01 PM.

  2. #42
    According to official lore there isn't the slightest doubt on the fact that the Old Gods, the Legion and Deathwing are much more powerful foes than the Lich King.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Stannis View Post
    According to official lore there isn't the slightest doubt on the fact that the Old Gods, the Legion and Deathwing are much more powerful foes than the Lich King.
    Yea as said. In raw strength LK is not as strong as DW, Archimonde or Kil Jaeden. But LK power was his Necromancy , future seing. And that he got Most powerful army besides old god and the legion. And LK had grown trimendusly since he first arrived in Azeroth and would contunie to grow in power while he tooked his victims souls. So in TIME if he won the scourge war and got Azeroths champions at his side and swallow every soul in Azeroth he woulb be mutch more dangerous than he already was. Twillight hammer, the dragonflights, naga minions in core units is below the scourge rank. BUT as said 1 vs 1 in LK current state in wraith he wouldnt YET stand against DW , KiLjaeden Archimonde Azhara and so on.

    He got a finger in every event since during and after the third war, he works like the drealords in the shadow and makes things happening that and his necromancy and growing power that makes me decide he was more dangerous with time than serverel other super villians. After the old gods and the burning legion.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by lichkingsbitch View Post
    Yea as said. In raw strength LK is not as strong as DW, Archimonde or Kil Jaeden. But LK power was his Necromancy , future seing. And that he got Most powerful army besides old god and the legion. And LK had grown trimendusly since he first arrived in Azeroth and would contunie to grow in power while he tooked his victims souls. So in TIME if he won the scourge war and got Azeroths champions at his side and swallow every soul in Azeroth he woulb be mutch more dangerous than he already was. Twillight hammer, the dragonflights, naga minions in core units is below the scourge rank. BUT as said 1 vs 1 in LK current state in wraith he wouldnt YET stand against DW , KiLjaeden Archimonde Azhara and so on.

    He got a finger in every event since during and after the third war, he works like the drealords in the shadow and makes things happening that and his necromancy and growing power that makes me decide he was more dangerous with time than serverel other super villians. After the old gods and the burning legion.
    You point about necromancy is invalid because it's not exclusive to Lich King. Kil'jaden could do it too because he taught Lich King in the first place. Frostmourne was also Legion's.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by checking facts View Post
    worgen death knights have undead skins. they are arugal's worgen AND gilnean AND undead at the same time.

    They are NOT Gilnean... its been stated over and over and over and over again... They have absolutly nothing to do with the Gilnean. They are simply Arugal's

    Only Gilneans worgen are imhune to undeath.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildmoon View Post
    You point about necromancy is invalid because it's not exclusive to Lich King. Kil'jaden could do it too because he taught Lich King in the first place. Frostmourne was also Legion's.
    Kiljaeden, dreadlords with the saronite created lich king yea, BUt in time as lore says he grow to powerful for Kil Jaeden to fully control. He broked their pact after Archimondes defeat. But LK grow on his own in power and i dont see Kil Jaeden contro lany other scourge? The yhad none who could control all single handely and thats why KL created LK one single mind in fear for the Legion witch controlled the scourge and who wouldnt mess upp liek the orc in the second war. BUt yet again LK new that The burning Legion would make trash of him gi they would win the third war so he betrays the mand goes his own path. Lk doesent have that power alone Burning Legion and the old gods still goes first yes beacuse LK lsot the scourge war.

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    LK lol meant KJ

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by lichkingsbitch View Post
    Kiljaeden, dreadlords with the saronite created lich king yea, BUt in time as lore says he grow to powerful for Kil Jaeden to fully control. He broked their pact after Archimondes defeat. But LK grow on his own in power and i dont see Kil Jaeden contro lany other scourge? The yhad none who could control all single handely and thats why KL created LK one single mind in fear for the Legion witch controlled the scourge and who wouldnt mess upp liek the orc in the second war. BUt yet again LK new that The burning Legion would make trash of him gi they would win the third war so he betrays the mand goes his own path. Lk doesent have that power alone Burning Legion and the old gods still goes first yes beacuse LK lsot the scourge war.

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    LK lol meant KJ
    ouch brain, please use spell check or re-read what you have wrote and clean it up just a little.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by lichkingsbitch View Post
    Kiljaeden, dreadlords with the saronite created lich king yea, BUt in time as lore says he grow to powerful for Kil Jaeden to fully control. He broked their pact after Archimondes defeat. But LK grow on his own in power and i dont see Kil Jaeden contro lany other scourge? The yhad none who could control all single handely and thats why KL created LK one single mind in fear for the Legion witch controlled the scourge and who wouldnt mess upp liek the orc in the second war. BUt yet again LK new that The burning Legion would make trash of him gi they would win the third war so he betrays the mand goes his own path. Lk doesent have that power alone Burning Legion and the old gods still goes first yes beacuse LK lsot the scourge war.

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    LK lol meant KJ
    It's quite hard to read. KJ made a pact with Ner'zhul but Ner'zhul betrayed him and KJ couldn't do anything about it because he couldn't enter Azeroth. He sent Illidan to do his work of getting rid of LK. Illidan failed though. Malfurion saved LK's ass.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Fairchild View Post
    They are NOT Gilnean... its been stated over and over and over and over again... They have absolutly nothing to do with the Gilnean. They are simply Arugal's

    Only Gilneans worgen are imhune to undeath.
    they are gilnean. they reveal that when you do that quest that you talk to an old acquaintance.

    Lord Harford says: There... There's no more time for me. I'm done for. Finish me off, <name>. Do it or they'll kill us both. <Name>... Remember Gilneas, our beloved home. This world is worth saving.
    Warlorcs of Draenorc made me quit. You can't have my stuff.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildmoon View Post
    You overestimate LK too much and some of your imformations are flat out wrong. LK has never enslaved Yogg. Yogg even knew that soon LK would know that he himself wasn't out of the cycle life and death. LK also has never wage full war against Yogg too. Yogg was imprisioned. LK was also vulnerable to mortal's weapon like plague bomb from forsaken. He was powerful but not to the level of KJ or Archimonde. Archimonde could destroy the whole city of magic by a single spell.. LK couldn't that for sure. DW was also much stronger than LK. He fucking broke the world. LK may not even be the best necromancer because necromancy belongs to the legion in the first place and Kil'jaden taught that to him.
    I never said he did enslave him, but he was capable of doing so. He was fight with Yogg and his minions, he had one chained up that we actually let free, he was using Yoggs blood for Saronite, and his will over undead was stronger than Yoggs influence because the Scourge couldn't be controlled by him. Yogg did know that the LK could die, but even Arthas new that, he did his best to get rid of anythign he considered weak though, he purged Ner'zhul and even cut out his own heart to strength himself.

    I am also sure that he was stronger than KJ or Arch. The whole reason KJ sent Illidan to stop Arthas when he did because he know if Arthas and Ner'zhul merged than he would be to strong to stop by normal means. Also The Legion doesn't have Necromancy powers. The Dreadlords do, which are the ones that crafted Frostmourne and the armor in the first place, but as we have seen Arthas has surpassed the Dreadlords before he even fused.

    As for Deathwing, I am not sold he was stronger. He was the Earth Warder so of course he was able to rip the world a part some. But Arthas had an undead army so big that if Bovlar hadn't taken control of the helm the undead legions would have rampaged and destroyed the world anyways. Apples to oranges. As for something like a 1v1 fight between the 2, who is to say. Deathwing is massive, but Grom was able to take out Mannoroth who while, not as big as Deathwing, was still considerable bigger than his foe. With the help of Frostmourne, Arthas may have been able to use some spell to fight him. Deathwing is only an dragon aspect empowered by the Old Gods, As we saw in End Time, he was disposed of by the Old Gods once they got what they wanted from him. Deathwings true power comes from manipulating the Earth, his size can only help him so much in battle.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Yingyang View Post
    I never said he did enslave him, but he was capable of doing so. He was fight with Yogg and his minions, he had one chained up that we actually let free, he was using Yoggs blood for Saronite, and his will over undead was stronger than Yoggs influence because the Scourge couldn't be controlled by him. Yogg did know that the LK could die, but even Arthas new that, he did his best to get rid of anythign he considered weak though, he purged Ner'zhul and even cut out his own heart to strength himself.

    I am also sure that he was stronger than KJ or Arch. The whole reason KJ sent Illidan to stop Arthas when he did because he know if Arthas and Ner'zhul merged than he would be to strong to stop by normal means. Also The Legion doesn't have Necromancy powers. The Dreadlords do, which are the ones that crafted Frostmourne and the armor in the first place, but as we have seen Arthas has surpassed the Dreadlords before he even fused.

    As for Deathwing, I am not sold he was stronger. He was the Earth Warder so of course he was able to rip the world a part some. But Arthas had an undead army so big that if Bovlar hadn't taken control of the helm the undead legions would have rampaged and destroyed the world anyways. Apples to oranges. As for something like a 1v1 fight between the 2, who is to say. Deathwing is massive, but Grom was able to take out Mannoroth who while, not as big as Deathwing, was still considerable bigger than his foe. With the help of Frostmourne, Arthas may have been able to use some spell to fight him. Deathwing is only an dragon aspect empowered by the Old Gods, As we saw in End Time, he was disposed of by the Old Gods once they got what they wanted from him. Deathwings true power comes from manipulating the Earth, his size can only help him so much in battle.
    Arthas almost keeled over from Blight, not as super as you think he is.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
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  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Arthas almost keeled over from Blight, not as super as you think he is.
    blight that instantly wiped 3 raids at the same time. it's not that arthas was weak. the blight was strong.
    Warlorcs of Draenorc made me quit. You can't have my stuff.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by checking facts View Post
    blight that instantly wiped 3 raids at the same time. it's not that arthas was weak. the blight was strong.
    I'm not saying he's weak, I'm saying he's not as godlike as Yingyang wants to believe.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yingyang View Post
    he was using Yoggs blood for Saronite
    Saroniite occurs naturally throughout Northrend. LK was simply using the Scourge to mine it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yingyang View Post
    I am also sure that he was stronger than KJ or Arch.
    LK was a man imbued with nectromantic powers and leads an army of mindless, individually weak abominations. KJ is the general of the most powerful army in the universe. LK and the Scourge combined MIGHT BE close to as powerful as KJ, but LK vs. KJ or even Scourge vs. Burning Legion is absolutely no contest. KJ wins.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Lyrax View Post
    Aren't the aspects immune to the scourge and it's taint?
    pretty sure sindragosa was the aspect of magic before malygos... and she got pretty scourged up

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ugru View Post
    Saroniite occurs naturally throughout Northrend. LK was simply using the Scourge to mine it.
    i thought saronite was only naturally occuring in northrend because of yogg saron bleeding underneath the continent for hundreds of years
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  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    In the novel Arthas: Rise of the Lich King, Arthas murders the manifestation of his humanity, then murders Ner'zhul within himself:
    “We are one, Arthas. Together, we are the Lich King. No more Ner’zhul, no more Arthas—only this one glorious being. With my knowledge, we can—”
    His eyes bulged as the sword impaled him.
    Arthas stepped forward, plunging the glittering, hungering Frostmourne ever deeper into the dream-being that had once been Ner’zhul, then the Lich King, and was soon to be nothing, nothing at all. He slipped his other arm around the body, pressing his lips so close to the green ear that the gesture was almost intimate, as intimate as the act of taking a life always was and always would be.
    “No,” Arthas whispered. “No we. No one tells me what to do. I’ve got everything I need from you—now the power is mine and mine alone. Now there is only I. I am the Lich King. And I am ready.”
    The orc shuddered in his arms, stunned by the betrayal, and vanished.
    ...
    Arthas, the Lich King, alone in his glory and power, slowly opened his eyes.


    In the manga Legends: Fate, Arthas says, "Ner'zhul is no more. He is consumed. There is only Arthas now..."

    During BlizzCon 2010 this is what Metzen said:
    Originally Posted by Cris Metzen
    Q. I have a question regarding the storyline of Ner'zhul: is he finished, or what's going on with that?
    A. "Yes. Yeah, Ner'zhul is done. He served us well in that capacity, but really the Lich King idea... really has the ultimate expression, you know, as Arthas or whatever. Ner'zhul's done." (Source)

    Then we killed Arthas and he is floating around in Warcraft hell. There is nothing in the helm except the ability to control Scourge.
    this is my problem with all that explanation. if theres nothing in that helm why does bolvars voice change the same way it did when arthas put it on?

    in my own opinion arthas was the living host of nerzhul/lich king. nerzhul/lich king was merely infused into the physical body of arthas because arthas allowed it. he did become the dominant personality inside the helm but i feel that after arthas was dead his control over anything was ended. bolvar should now be wrestling with the same problem. just my thoughts

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by dokilar View Post
    this is my problem with all that explanation. if theres nothing in that helm why does bolvars voice change the same way it did when arthas put it on?

    in my own opinion arthas was the living host of nerzhul/lich king. nerzhul/lich king was merely infused into the physical body of arthas because arthas allowed it. he did become the dominant personality inside the helm but i feel that after arthas was dead his control over anything was ended. bolvar should now be wrestling with the same problem. just my thoughts
    Did you notice that their eyes glow different colors? Arthas' eyes glowed blue and continued to do so even without the helmet as he was dying. Bolvar's eyes glow yellow.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
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  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Did you notice that their eyes glow different colors? Arthas' eyes glowed blue and continued to do so even without the helmet as he was dying. Bolvar's eyes glow yellow.
    be that as it may that doesnt explain why his voice changes. or am i missing something?

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by dokilar View Post
    be that as it may that doesnt explain why his voice changes. or am i missing something?
    He hit undead puberty.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
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  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    He hit undead puberty.
    oh ok, thanks, it all makes sense now!

    also for the record, bolvars eyes were glowing yellow before he put the helm on. the same flash happened to his eyes that happened to arthas' eyes after he put it on. now im no opthamologist but it could be that the intial eye color is simply carried over after the two entities are infused
    Last edited by dokilar; 2013-07-13 at 09:06 PM.

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