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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Yingyang View Post
    I never said he did enslave him, but he was capable of doing so. He was fight with Yogg and his minions, he had one chained up that we actually let free, he was using Yoggs blood for Saronite, and his will over undead was stronger than Yoggs influence because the Scourge couldn't be controlled by him. Yogg did know that the LK could die, but even Arthas new that, he did his best to get rid of anythign he considered weak though, he purged Ner'zhul and even cut out his own heart to strength himself.

    I am also sure that he was stronger than KJ or Arch. The whole reason KJ sent Illidan to stop Arthas when he did because he know if Arthas and Ner'zhul merged than he would be to strong to stop by normal means. Also The Legion doesn't have Necromancy powers. The Dreadlords do, which are the ones that crafted Frostmourne and the armor in the first place, but as we have seen Arthas has surpassed the Dreadlords before he even fused.

    As for Deathwing, I am not sold he was stronger. He was the Earth Warder so of course he was able to rip the world a part some. But Arthas had an undead army so big that if Bovlar hadn't taken control of the helm the undead legions would have rampaged and destroyed the world anyways. Apples to oranges. As for something like a 1v1 fight between the 2, who is to say. Deathwing is massive, but Grom was able to take out Mannoroth who while, not as big as Deathwing, was still considerable bigger than his foe. With the help of Frostmourne, Arthas may have been able to use some spell to fight him. Deathwing is only an dragon aspect empowered by the Old Gods, As we saw in End Time, he was disposed of by the Old Gods once they got what they wanted from him. Deathwings true power comes from manipulating the Earth, his size can only help him so much in battle.
    I don't know where you get all that information from

    1.KJ wasn't afraid that LK would grow too powerful to be a threat to him but KJ sent Illidan to destroy him because LK betrayed him and messed with Legion's plan. KJ couldn't enter Azeroth so all he could was sending his pawn. This is what happened in WC3.

    2.Legion does have necromancy. Dreadlords are part of the legion and KJ has master all forms of arcane magic. All arcane magic you see in game could be used by him. Ner'zhul didn't pull necromancy out of his ass. He was "granted" power by KJ.

    3.DW was undefeatable without Dragon Soul the most powerful artifact in Azeroth. 4 Aspects couldn't even beat him. Dragon aspects would MELT LK if they participate in the war at ICC. LK was defeatable even without Ashbringer as wa saw from Wrathgate cinematic. Just a plague bomb hurt him.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Yingyang View Post
    KJ is only an eredar empowered by Sargeras with fel magics. Velen is a eredar empowered by Naaru with the "Light". We still dont know just how strong some Naaru are, but I would be willing to think that Velen is equal to KJ as well as Arch in power. People seem to think KJ is some super powerful being that is the 2nd strongest only to Sargeras himself but the story is a little different. KJ has strong magics. Archimonde was stronger physically though. That is why he lead the armies of the legion. We have beaten Arhc, be it hundread to thousands of whisp blowing him up, but he is still "dead"(I'm sure hell be back int he future). Kil'jaden is no different. If the combine powers of Orcs, Humans, and Night elves can beat Arhcimonde and his minions, I see no reason why The Lich King and his scourge cant beat KJ.

    Also, We have no clue is the Burning Legion is the strongest army in the universe. The Titans army could be stronger considering it helped stop the demons in the first place. We also do not know about the old gods so called "endless" army that has been talked about that is still in the Twisting Nether somewhere. In the end the Legion is stronger as a whole then the Scourge though, but we will have to wait and see which army out of the previously mentioned is the best.
    You got things mostly wrong again

    1. KJ was stated to be better arcane user than Archimonde but there has never been official statement that he is weaker than Archimonde physically. That's what you made up.

    2.LK couldn't beat Archimonde because he didn't have the world tree to sacrifice. Combined might of mortals didn't stand a chance against Archimonde. That's why Malfurion made that decision. Archimonde was destroyed by the nature herself. How Lich King would do that? Frostmourne is pathethic weapon against the like of Archimonde. It was crafted by Legion in the first place.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildmoon View Post
    I don't know where you get all that information from

    1.KJ wasn't afraid that LK would grow too powerful to be a threat to him but KJ sent Illidan to destroy him because LK betrayed him and messed with Legion's plan. KJ couldn't enter Azeroth so all he could was sending his pawn. This is what happened in WC3.

    2.Legion does have necromancy. Dreadlords are part of the legion and KJ has master all forms of arcane magic. All arcane magic you see in game could be used by him. Ner'zhul didn't pull necromancy out of his ass. He was "granted" power by KJ.

    3.DW was undefeatable without Dragon Soul the most powerful artifact in Azeroth. 4 Aspects couldn't even beat him. Dragon aspects would MELT LK if they participate in the war at ICC. LK was defeatable even without Ashbringer as wa saw from Wrathgate cinematic. Just a plague bomb hurt him.

    - - - Updated - - -





    You got things mostly wrong again

    1. KJ was stated to be better arcane user than Archimonde but there has never been official statement that he is weaker than Archimonde physically. That's what you made up.

    2.LK couldn't beat Archimonde because he didn't have the world tree to sacrifice. Combined might of mortals didn't stand a chance against Archimonde. That's why Malfurion made that decision. Archimonde was destroyed by the nature herself. How Lich King would do that? Frostmourne is pathethic weapon against the like of Archimonde. It was crafted by Legion in the first place.
    Do you care to back up your so called "facts" about KJ granting Ner'zhul his necromantic powers, because going by all known lore it is the armor and Frostmourne that grants Ner'zhul and Arthas the necomantic powers because KJ made the Dreadlords craft them, because the Dreadlords can use necromantic power for the Legion, not KJ. KJ uses arcane and fel magic, which is completely different than shadow magic, which is what necromancy is.

    Most of the lore information can be read on Wowpedia articles, the Warcaft site itself, or game manuals and lore books.

    You seem so dead set on proving KJ is the end all be all but your "facts" are mostly opinion. Or misjudgement about events in the lore.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Yingyang View Post
    Do you care to back up your so called "facts" about KJ granting Ner'zhul his necromantic powers, because going by all known lore it is the armor and Frostmourne that grants Ner'zhul and Arthas the necomantic powers because KJ made the Dreadlords craft them, because the Dreadlords can use necromantic power for the Legion, not KJ. KJ uses arcane and fel magic, which is completely different than shadow magic, which is what necromancy is.

    Most of the lore information can be read on Wowpedia articles, the Warcaft site itself, or game manuals and lore books.

    You seem so dead set on proving KJ is the end all be all but your "facts" are mostly opinion. Or misjudgement about events in the lore.
    http://www.wowpedia.org/The_Schools_...c_-_Necromancy Now I present you with fact again. This is from in game book. I will inform you that fel,fire,frost,,time,necromancy all of these are arcane. At this point you couldn't even argue with any of my point. There was hardly any opinion about my post earlier.
    Last edited by Wildmoon; 2013-07-14 at 01:45 AM.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Yingyang View Post
    Do you care to back up your so called "facts" about KJ granting Ner'zhul his necromantic powers, because going by all known lore it is the armor and Frostmourne that grants Ner'zhul and Arthas the necomantic powers because KJ made the Dreadlords craft them, because the Dreadlords can use necromantic power for the Legion, not KJ. KJ uses arcane and fel magic, which is completely different than shadow magic, which is what necromancy is.

    Most of the lore information can be read on Wowpedia articles, the Warcaft site itself, or game manuals and lore books.

    You seem so dead set on proving KJ is the end all be all but your "facts" are mostly opinion. Or misjudgement about events in the lore.
    KJ ripped Ner'zhul's body apart and kept his detached soul alive. Sounds like necromancy to me.

    The LK powers came from KJ: "Warped by the demon's chaotic powers, Ner'zhul became a spectral being of unfathomable power. At that moment, the orc known as Ner'zhul was shattered forever, and the Lich King was born."
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-07-14 at 01:50 AM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildmoon View Post
    http://www.wowpedia.org/The_Schools_...c_-_Necromancy Now I present you with fact again. This is from in game book. I will inform you that fel,fire,frost,,time,necromancy all of these are arcane. At this point you couldn't even argue with any of my point. There was hardly any opinion about my post earlier.
    And the book says nothing of Necromancy being related to arcane, it is just a form of magic. There is still no lore that I am aware of that shows KJ knows how to use Necromancy. If you can find a source that says that then please do because I want to expand my knows of the existing lore, but from what I have seen there isn't one.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Yingyang View Post
    And the book says nothing of Necromancy being related to arcane, it is just a form of magic. There is still no lore that I am aware of that shows KJ knows how to use Necromancy. If you can find a source that says that then please do because I want to expand my knows of the existing lore, but from what I have seen there isn't one.
    The schools of arcane magic: Necromancy. read it carefully.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    KJ ripped Ner'zhul's body apart and kept his detached soul alive. Sounds like necromancy to me.
    That is possible, but A'dal also took that Crusader Bridenbrad's soul from his body to save him from scourge. I wouldn't quite consider the maniulating of ones soul to be pint pointed down to only Necromancy. Hell even warlocks use their shadow magic to manipulate souls for their use.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Yingyang View Post
    That is possible, but A'dal also took that Crusader Bridenbrad's soul from his body to save him from scourge. I wouldn't quite consider the maniulating of ones soul to be pint pointed down to only Necromancy. Hell even warlocks use their shadow magic to manipulate souls for their use.
    The LK powers came from KJ: "Warped by the demon's chaotic powers, Ner'zhul became a spectral being of unfathomable power. At that moment, the orc known as Ner'zhul was shattered forever, and the Lich King was born."
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildmoon View Post
    The schools of arcane magic: Necromancy. read it carefully.
    I have, the word Arcane doesnt come up once and there is no information about the granting of necromancy from one person to another.

    "chill the living with the power of death" is the closest thing to any sort of statement but that is very vague and could mean simply just killing someone to actually granting them powers. I see no strong or clear evidence here.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Yingyang View Post
    I have, the word Arcane doesnt come up once and there is no information about the granting of necromancy from one person to another.

    "chill the living with the power of death" is the closest thing to any sort of statement but that is very vague and could mean simply just killing someone to actually granting them powers. I see no strong or clear evidence here.
    The art of magic is manipulation of arcane. The topic says that necromancy is one of the schools of Arcane. it couldn't get mor obvious than that.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildmoon View Post
    The art of magic is manipulation of arcane. The topic says that necromancy is one of the schools of Arcane. it couldn't get mor obvious than that.
    Very well, it was my bad I didn't see notice the title of the book. It seems Necromancy is indeed an Arcane magic, but If you look at my post after this I have found where it says the Armor is what gave Ner'zhul his powers.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Yingyang View Post
    Very well, it was my bad I didn't see notice the title of the book. It seems Necromancy is indeed an Arcane magic, but If you look at my post after this I have found where it says the Armor is what gave Ner'zhul his powers.
    All of Lich King's equipments were forged by demon under KJ's command anyway.

  13. #93
    That you for that post as it helps to speed up this conversation. After reading that and looking deep I have found.

    http://www.wowpedia.org/Helm_of_Domi...28Lich_King%29

    That clearly states, "The Helm of Domination was crafted by demons, both to hold the spirit of Ner'zhul and grant him his Lich King powers." which says very clearly the Helm crafted by the Dreadlords grant Ner'zhul his powers as the Lich King.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Yingyang View Post
    That you for that post as it helps to speed up this conversation. After reading that and looking deep I have found.

    http://www.wowpedia.org/Helm_of_Domi...28Lich_King%29

    That clearly states, "The Helm of Domination was crafted by demons, both to hold the spirit of Ner'zhul and grant him his Lich King powers." which says very clearly the Helm crafted by the Dreadlords grant Ner'zhul his powers as the Lich King.
    That info about the Helm and the rest of the Plate of Damnation is from the RPG and not canon.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  15. #95
    Ok sry for i didint cheked my spelling. X) Yes in the very start LK was given his powers by KJ And the dreadlords, as said they crafted and imbuned his spirit with the armors. Beacuse KJ wanted the LK under strict control. Thats why he didint gived LK physical form. LK grew and grew in power after every soul he tooked and i dont now if the Burning Legion knew that LK could see in the future or could harvest power like that. LK had a hand in every event during and after the third war and folled us all and the Burning Legion. One thing if you guys maybe knows who have read the book, wowiki says that they despite Yogg saron when named. They took his blood and was imune to his curuption and even captured his minions? Sad that blizz didint explain their connection in the game:/
    is it just nothing or it is some lore behind? (sry again for my spelling and grammar)

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by lichkingsbitch View Post
    Ok sry for i didint cheked my spelling. X) Yes in the very start LK was given his powers by KJ And the dreadlords, as said they crafted and imbuned his spirit with the armors. Beacuse KJ wanted the LK under strict control. Thats why he didint gived LK physical form. LK grew and grew in power after every soul he tooked and i dont now if the Burning Legion knew that LK could see in the future or could harvest power like that. LK had a hand in every event during and after the third war and folled us all and the Burning Legion. One thing if you guys maybe knows who have read the book, wowiki says that they despite Yogg saron when named. They took his blood and was imune to his curuption and even captured his minions? Sad that blizz didint explain their connection in the game:/
    is it just nothing or it is some lore behind? (sry again for my spelling and grammar)
    Legion was full aware of Frostmourne's ability. Ner'zhul did mess up Legion's plan though but he himself got lucky too. Illidan failed unpredictably by him.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Wildmoon View Post
    Legion was full aware of Frostmourne's ability. Ner'zhul did mess up Legion's plan though but he himself got lucky too. Illidan failed unpredictably by him.
    Yea Illidan used the eye of sargeras, dont hink LK knew it exist. But in my point LK was way more to be misstrusted than the orcs. With his powers why would legion let him have all that? ^^ Yea the dreadlors guarded him but in the long run all didint went so well.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    It's possible Bolvar encased himself in ice as a cocoon so he could acclimate to his new power and dedicate all his concentration to controlling the Scourge. He is completely unfamiliar with this kind of power.


    This is completely wrong. It is explicitly stated that when the LK's control weakens/disappears, the Scourge run rampant. They don't just die off.
    I'm Sorry you'r right i forgot Tirion had mentioned that. >.<

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