1. #1
    Blademaster
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    My computer chair
    Posts
    49

    Haste break point

    Simple question. Do rogues have a haste break point like casters do? If so what is the value of the break point. Thank you in advance for all answers.

  2. #2
    Nope, haste makes you attack faster and regen your energy faster. For Rogues, more haste is always better
    Sydäntalvi @ Darksorrow EU
    Paladin | Warrior | Death Knight | Druid | Monk

  3. #3

  4. #4
    No, more Haste is always better. I suppose theoretically there is a point where Haste would grant one more energy than you can expend, but we don't ever really get to that point. Additionally, a huge portion of Haste's value is derived from the additional melee haste and white damage it brings, which also increases poison damage too.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Beertoe View Post
    Simple question. Do rogues have a haste break point like casters do? If so what is the value of the break point. Thank you in advance for all answers.
    Haste breakpoints only exist for specs that have A) dots which tick faster with haste and can gain an additional tick-per-cast (thus altering the duration per cast) and B) GCD/CD-reduction (1.5s base GCD caps at 50% and 1s, Sanctity of Battle lining up with the GCD for ret/prot...).

    Rogue dots do not scale with haste and we have a 1s GCD to begin with - no breakpoints can exist.

  6. #6
    To be thorough, there is actually one 'breakpoint', when the energy input part of haste become useless (i.e. when you have more base energy regen that you can spend). But this breakpoint, which depends on each spec, is very, very high - totally unreachable.

  7. #7
    The hard haste cap (the point where baseline energy regen exceeds the cost of your most expensive combo generating ability) is impossible to reach in all 3 specs.

    Assassination: 55 energy/sec = ~175k haste rating
    Combat: 40 energy/sec = ~99k haste rating
    Subtlety: 40 energy/sec = ~110k haste rating.
    Last edited by shadowboy; 2013-07-16 at 05:18 PM.

  8. #8
    Tangentially, if Haste increases the value of Mastery (since Haste produces more poison procs and actually double dips with energy regen too), is there a realistic point where you want to balance the two?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Synexlol View Post
    Tangentially, if Haste increases the value of Mastery (since Haste produces more poison procs and actually double dips with energy regen too), is there a realistic point where you want to balance the two?
    With RPPM, that's happening at certain gear levels this tier. Without it, that point seems pretty far away.

    How does it double dip energy regen?

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Squirl View Post
    With RPPM, that's happening at certain gear levels this tier. Without it, that point seems pretty far away.

    How does it double dip energy regen?
    I meant that Haste increases the value of Mastery both by more white hits and more energy regen to Mutilate/Dispatch which then proc poisons. Is double dip the correct term? Seemed fitting to me.

  11. #11
    No, an example of double dipping would be cataclysm raging blow double dipping from mastery.

    In cataclysm, fury's mastery was such that any ability that either causes or requires an enrage effect has its effectiveness increased. Because Raging blow required the warrior to be enraged in cataclysm, mastery increased its damage. But because the enrage proc that enabled RB ALSO benefit from mastery, that means Raging blow's damage was increased by that too. Raging blow benefit from mastery stat twice--once because it required an enrage effect, and a second time because the enrage effect that enabled it increased your damage. Another example of double dipping was the Hemorrhage DoT in cataclysm. The DoT double-dipped from crit because if hemo crit (and the dot's damage was based on the original hemo damage), and the dot ticks crit, then those dot ticks would have done 4x their normal because it got effect from crit for itself, and again from the original hemo strike.

    The only stat that rogues double dip from currently is yellow hit (only poison damage specifically double dips from hit). The reason is because first there is a roll to see if the attack hit, then there is a roll to see if the poison hit. The poison damage benefits twice from each point of hit based on this two-roll mechanic.
    Last edited by shadowboy; 2013-07-16 at 07:00 PM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Synexlol View Post
    Tangentially, if Haste increases the value of Mastery (since Haste produces more poison procs and actually double dips with energy regen too), is there a realistic point where you want to balance the two?
    It's possible, but not probable (I assume you mean for combat?), especially if they're bringing the changes to SS live, which would reduce the pace of reaching maxed BG and increase the value of haste in comparison to mastery again (fewer weapon strikes for the same energy, fewer chances to proc MG).

    If it does, it'll show up pretty early in sims and spreadsheets, I'd think.

  13. #13
    So is it bad that when all my cds are blown and my trinket goes off that i have 200% haste for a decent amount of time lol

  14. #14
    It's only bad that you don't have 201%.

  15. #15
    Lol I can backstab SOOOOOO much when everything goes off same for sinister strike spam.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •