[FROST MAGE] Need advice on changing to FIRE - ilvl533

[Akraen]

You can play frost for all ToT fights on normal and heroic. To the poster above me, Pyromelter, it's those little hidden lines that bug non-fire mages:

...but you can certainly still play frost for most ToT fights.

You don't need the word most there. All. All is the correct word, because the assumption that you have to be the highest dps spec when all of your spec options are viable in relation to the raid, especially at this point in the tier when gear has completely negated any marginal differences for DPS checks... I think the point is made there.

Nobody is trying to argue that frost outperforms fire. What frost does though is outperform other classes. And on its own, frost performs just fine. You shouldn't feel compelled to change. If you feel you're underperforming as frost, then you're probably going to underperform as fire or arcane as well.

Most of your DPS issues are going to be with timing of things and snapshotting which are present among all 3 specs.

[Deleted]

Combustion doesn't spread to all targets anymore. Making a claim that your combustion is better than frozen orb is absurd. Also, there are 3 perfectly viable and widespread strategies for Heroic Tortos. Frost AoE has been and still is better than fire AoE. Pete is never going to say anything unreasonable and it's clear you're just picking fights.

okay. frozen orb every 1min vs combustion every 1,5-2min. frozen orb is doing less dps --> combustion is better. thats for tortos obviously. i wasnt talking about aoe. just compared these two skills on tortos hc. also what aoe strategy are you talking about. remember the 40% aoe buff? i dont think any mage was doing aoe on tortos hc back then even now its not that good.

On Tortos, I would stick with frost, assuming you are on turtle duty, frost works better. If you are just sticking to the boss, either arcane or fire work well.

w-w-what? have you ever played fire on tortos hc? combustion is insane. frost cant compete on turtle damage by far. if you need a slow get the ffb glyph.

[Deleted]

In retrospect, the post was provoking and I responed to it, my fail. The thing was, I just came back from PTR and tested fire (because right now, I have to progress with fire in 5.4) and was a little bit frustrated. I really love frost (played with Subzero in Mortal Combat and Anivia in LoL only ) and have to play a spec I don´t like much (don´t hate it)

I really can´t remember one single post where a fellow frost mage here on mmo said something like "Frost is the best, if you dont play frost you are a fool". Really like our small but fine frost community btw. : )
If you (guys who constantly telling us how dumb we are, because we´re playing frost) don´t like the spec, fine. If you don´t like to see us sharing ideas, opinions, numbers or worries, ignore it. We do not want to take away something from you (fire mages). We and the arcanists are suffering more than fire at the moment and we want a few fixes (bandaids) to be able to properly progress in 5.4.

[Deleted]

I really can´t remember one single post where a fellow frost mage here on mmo said something like "Frost is the best, if you dont play frost you are a fool".

someone in this thread said something like frost is the best till mid 530 or until 540 and im bad if i dont agree. i feel like its the same in addition to that its just wrong. anyways its pointless. i can show you as much logic as there is, you still wont see it. it was the same discussion back last tier on mmo-c.

[Deleted]

you "frost" guys amaze me. even with 520 you will see a difference between fire and frost if you have 2 rppm trinkets. on most tot fights fire just destroys frost. on some it just comes close. so if your fire mates consistently do less dps than you, they are playing very bad. i dont see how you can even play bad, because fire consists of like 3 basic things. but apparently there are people that can manage to do that.
now pls stop saying frost is viable until 530 or 540, what is the purpose? its always viable because you can kill a boss with it. but is it optimal? no. not even at 520. (maybe only a few bosses. but not overall)

Your arguments are devoid of logic. RPPM trinkets give frost a bigger advantage in low levels, because they stack haste from the beginning. Fire don´t destroy frost with 520, saying a fire mage plays bad that do less DPS than a frost mage with 520 is an insult to the who is who in the fire mage community. Back than (beginning of progression) frost mages were pretty decent ranked compared with fire mages (can remember that, because a frost mage was #1 mage on jin rokh and overall #7)

I will never ever stop saying frost is viable until 530, because I progressed as frost, made my experiences and do not regret it.

okay. frozen orb every 1min vs combustion every 1,5-2min. frozen orb is doing less dps --> combustion is better. thats for tortos obviously. i wasnt talking about aoe. just compared these two skills on tortos hc. also what aoe strategy are you talking about. remember the 40% aoe buff? i dont think any mage was doing aoe on tortos hc back then even now its not that good.

w-w-what? have you ever played fire on tortos hc? combustion is insane. frost cant compete on turtle damage by far. if you need a slow get the ffb glyph.

You are talking to Akraen who knows what DPET is and you argue with a "-->" Really started to laughing out loud! When have you downed tortos heroic? I assume not at the beginning, because fire mages where benched in many guilds back then.

I do not know where your one-dimensionally point of view comes from, but you really have to learn what tolerance is!

[Deleted]

try reading the things i quote too before quoting me. it may help you to understand it.

Fire don´t destroy frost with 520, saying a fire mage plays bad that do less DPS than a frost mage with 520 is an insult to the who is who in the fire mage community.

never said that. his 3 mates are 540++. also i pm'ed him about it. so i dont really wanna talk about that again.

I will never ever stop saying frost is viable until 530, because I progressed as frost, made my experiences and do not regret it.

yeah its viable, but not optimal. even with 520 you will see a difference in favor of fire because of combustion.

You are talking to Akraen who knows what DPET is and you argue with a "-->" Really started to laughing out loud! When have you downed tortos heroic? I assume not at the beginning, because fire mages where benched in many guilds back then.

well i dont know what Akraen does or does not know. all i did was compare two spells and he was talking about aoe which didnt fit my comment at all.
also i killed hc tortos the first week sometime before your guild did. i played fire and it did very good turtle damage. you can look up each lineup for all the hc tortos kills. i dont see where mages got benched... 1-2 in every raid.

[Deleted]

Okay, talking to you makes no sense and is very tiring. Go ahead and throw out allegations, but I´m done with you.

[Deleted]

Okay, talking to you makes no sense and is very tiring. Go ahead and throw out allegations, but I´m done with you.

why does it make no sense? i back up the things i say or point out what misguided you. my only allegation is that its 520 not 535 or whatever and how is that different from your allegations?

[Kenbud]

why does it make no sense? i back up the things i say or point out what misguided you. my only allegation is that its 520 not 535 or whatever and how is that different from your allegations?

For fucks sake man. You are a moron. You accuse people of not reading your post before they quote you when in fact you are a huge offender of this. Frost is better at 520, you claim to be a cutting edge raider that played fire. So fucking what. Did you kill bosses? Sure. Was it optimal? No. Jackass. You keep arguing "oh fire is better combustion, combustion, combustion" combustion is shit unless you can build a good ignite. And you know what it takes to build a good ignite? Pryos that crit. And you know how you get pyros? That's right, by critting. At 520 you just don't have the crit. As it been said Council at Tortos are the only exception where fire may have and edge and I emphasize maybe. Frost is better at 520, even at 530, once you pass that then personal skill and itemization come into play and frost is still competitive. And about your previous post "someone in this thread said frost is best at 530s and 540s" no I didn't say that. Once you hit the 540s fire takes over, been clearly stated. I don't know if you are just choosing not to comprehend what has been written here or if you are really just that dumb.

Infracted.

[Shangalar]

It would seem that this discussion has run its course. If there is anything important left to add, nedla (the original poster) can send me a private message and I will consider reopening the thread.