Do YOU think Edward Snowden is a HERO/TRAITOR/OTHER?

[ringpriest]

It sure is, but he didnt pick Russia due to anything but the fact that he knew he would not get kicked out, not unless US held some super valuable spy or smt to trade with which the US clealy dont.

Snowden didn't pick Russia at all - he was in the process of trying to get to South America (Ecuador, iirc) without being arrested when the US finally got around to revoking his passport while he was in the Moscow airport. We obviously can't know why the timing was what it was, but is there another country where it would have been more effective to strand him for PR purposes?

[Deleted]

Snowden is a hero,while Assange is a coward and crooked.

[zEmini]

I voted neither. The words Traitor/Hero are both extremes that he doesn't deserve.

[Nihilist74]

I thought that Edward Snowden was an idiot for giving up a good career and comfortable life in America to be a so called "hero whistle blower."
Anyone who has the slightest idea of what computers are capable of would not doubt that the American government clandestine activity would use computers to track as much as they can. Its what they do. They gather as much information as possible that they feel relevant. Its no different than what Wal-Mart does or any other major company does.
America has been spying on our own and abroad for as long as they have been capable of doing it and by whatever means they can do it with. You are very naïve if you didn't already think that NSA, CIA or FBI wasn't already gathering any information that they can technologically.
Companies like Wal-mart track every kind of demographic that they can to gather information on who is buying items from their store, what items are they buying, where do they live, how much money do they make and what race, sex, and how educated they are.
The company I work for tracks all this information and uses it to funnel advertisements to particular individuals when they are surfing the web.

[Wildtree]

ruined his family reputation

Only complete idiots with horseshit for brain reflect an adult person's action onto their family.
Because it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. By all logic and rational reason, they can hardly be held responsible for anything. Or were they instrumental? Did they work with him at his job sites?

Yet, I have no doubt how some nationalists certainly extend any blame on everyone they can... Might as well blame his hamster and cat too.

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I voted neither. The words Traitor/Hero are both extremes that he doesn't deserve.

I think I sit in that camp of yours too.

[ringpriest]

If Snowden had selectively copied files that showed the unnecessary collection of data, fishing expeditions on the public, unnecessary invasion of privacy etc I would agree that he could be viewed as acting in the public interest

The problem is that is not what he did

Given the volume of malfeasance he uncovered, that literally wasn't feasible. He could have spent a lifetime vetting the stuff and still only covered a fraction of it. Instead, he grabbed everything he could, and, with the exception of a few statements he made in interviews, left the actual business of leaking to the professional journalists he turned the material over to (who appear to have been his choice of the best real journalists he could securely get in contact with), so as to best expose the widespread wrongdoing by multiple governments.

He was an analyst and, as such, would have been aware of the content of the files that he copied and the potential danger that information would have posed to individuals throughout the world in some pretty nasty places with little, if any, respect for human rights

It has now come to light that despite his assurances that those files would never be given to the USA's enemies, thats exactly what has happened with the decryption of those files by Russia and China

That has not "come to light" - it's been alleged (without proof, and with denials from the government of Great Britain) by one of the very organizations whose wrongdoing he exposed.

I do not believe it is a coincidence either that since Snowden ran away to first China and then Russia, that the successful number of hacks on USA systems has increased markedly out of all proportion to previous years either

It hasn't - it's just gotten more press coverage, because (in no small part thanks to Snowden) information- and internet-security is a much bigger deal in the public mind now.

It also seems remarkably coincidental that every time the USA or the UK give out some bad news about what Russia is up to, attention is diverted by yet another appearance of Snowden releasing more info

As I pointed out above (and previous in threads discussing the malfeasance and criminality of the NSA and GCHQ) Snowden is, by and large, not releasing info - he's giving (occassional) interviews.

Also, could you please provide some evidence of this supposed correlation?

Whilst checking that I do not have a tin foil hat on, I do not believe if you take an objective overview of what Snowden has done, and examine those actions against geopolitical events, that you can come to any other conclusion that it is highly likely that Snowden was nothing more than a spy for Russia who has been used masterfully by them to their own ends

The words "believe" and "objective" don't go together particularly well here. You state a conclusion based upon mis-statements, unproven allegations, and your personal beliefs.

At one stroke they have effectively dismantled intelligence gathering by the USA, damaged the USA's reputation globally, shredded relationships between the US and allies such as Germany, invaded and taken over a significant and vital part of a neighbouring country, and sent US politicians into a tail spin

No, the US did most of that all on its own. The idea that the person exposing a crime is somehow responsible for the repercussions of the criminal act is irrational.

If Snowden was not a spy and was solely interested in the rights of the individual, he would not have run off to the USA's enemies

Other remedies were available to highlight bulk data collection

Such as? Other NSA officials with much more clout than Snowden attempted to "blow the whistle" on the NSA's failure and abuse and got nowhere, a fact that he was well aware of.

I am sure there would have been many congressmen and senators who would have loved the opportunity to embarrass the US administration without devastating and endangering their legitimate intelligence gathering capability

Why did he not go to them?

Because, as demonstrated by Senator Wyden, while some members of the Senate were already aware of the NSA's lies, they were not legally able (or willing) to expose them.

He could have made his point from a neutral country whilst claiming asylum

Why did he not do that?

Perhaps because he was worried about being extradited by a "neutral" country - any nation that would have granted him asylum would doubtless qualify as an "enemy" by virtue of not hopping every time the US government says "frog". And what exactly did you expect him to do - walk into the Swiss embassy and say "hey, I've got a bunch of incriminating files on the US government, is it okay if I stay here while the reporters I gave them two slowly leak them for maximum exposure?

And, you're once again sliding around the point that Snowden only "released" his haul to a handful of journalists whose work he respected and whom he could contact securely, he was a source, not the story (which you manage to go the whole post without directly acknowledging: the NSA and US government in general lied about domestic surveillance on a massive scale that is abhorrent and damaging to a free democracy.

Instead, he handed 1.7 million intelligence and personel files to the two most oppressive and dangerous countries in the world, Russia and China

The only "evidence" for that claim is... the agencies (and people) who Snowden pissed off and revealed as cheats, liars, and crooks. If you have some hard evidence that backs up your attempted character assassination, why don't you contact the media with it?

Why give such help to the two biggest countries in the world with appalling records on human rights, detention without trial, who regularly use torture and ruthlessly press any political dissent

Are you talking about the US here? But seriously, what "help" are you talking about? You repeatedly assert as fact that "Snowden gave lots of files to China and Russia" but you have provided zero support for that claim.

That isn't a "freedom fighter", thats a dangerous spy who has now endangered the lives of countless people globally and made the world a much more dangerous place

Evidence? (Other than, "you believe" and statements from people who thinking nothing of breaking the law and lying to Congress?)

Your post is fractally wrong

Debating a person who is fractally wrong leads to infinite regress, as every refutation you make of that person's opinions will lead to a rejoinder, full of half-truths, leaps of poor logic, and outright lies, which requires just as much refutation to debunk as the first one—kind of like a recursive Gish Gallop, where each point both surrounds and is surrounded by an equally wrong argument. It is worth noting that being fractally wrong can be handy for the losing side in a public debate, since you are likely to leave your opponent looking baffled and unable to deal with each level of wrongness.

It is as impossible to convince a fractally wrong person of anything as it is to walk around the edge of the Mandelbrot set in finite time.

While arguing with these people can be amusing at times, we suggest that if you ever get embroiled in a discussion with a fractally wrong person on the Internet—in mailing lists, newsgroups, or forums—your best bet is to say your piece once and ignore any replies, thus saving yourself time.

[sam86]

Is that even a question ? and 191 call him a traitor?
Do you see it ok that a government does that disgusting work ? To spy on everything and everyone ? WTF ? Do you like I expose your brain to everyone around? To be able to blackmail you anytime I want? Are you THAT idiot to think that they are doing that to 'protect' u from terrorist, not to actually keep you obeying their disgusting laws ?
And I guess you are also the type who believe there are 'terrorists' in world ? That they aren't created by systems to keep ppl in line, you do know that not a single so-called terrorist wasn't working with a government at one point, and they stopped sharing interests, whoever in power call the other a terrorist
He did the right action, zero question, the wrong act is what governments do, the famous 'terrorist' Bin Laden was working for CIA for what, 20 years? But when USSR card was burned and usa 'democracy' can't keep ppl in line, Bin Laden - the obedient cia agent for 20 years - is now a 'terrorist' that need usa to unite behind the idiot Bush in crusade war (his own word, used on purpose multiple times)
I'm seriously in disgust at ppl who think he is a traitor, and I wish that i get a gun and threat them since they seem the masochist type who enjoy being f*cked to stay obedient and obey rules

EDIT:
I don't care about Snowden, the topic here isn't he is a hero or traitor, the problem is really how ppl are ready to sacrifice their rights and their freedom for fake war on terrorism, and if they just google search they will find that so called terrorists of today were friends of yesterday but the mutual interest {back then was both were against communism, now communism over they are on each others throats}, there is no real terrorist in the world, there is only someone whose benefit as ally is over and i need new 'enemy' face
When ppl got bored of Bin Laden story, he was dead, now we have "Isil' or Isis or whatever, and I'm ready to cut my own arm that when Isil is over they will create something new as a threat to keep ppl in control, to make them feel insecure and scare them and let the general ppl ready to shut up on government LIES and let them steal our money to enjoy luxury lifestyle in name of fighting 'terrorism'

There is only one true terrorist in this world, and one only, and no one else : The system

[alexkeren]

What if he got US and British agents killed? Daaaamn.

Already did.

[ringpriest]

Already did.

That's a pretty strong claim. Source please.

[Moon-Man]

What's this about Edward? Did he try to expose the gov't?

Edit: Not from U.S, so I dont get news straight from US

[Jaxi]

Already did.

No one reported to have been harmed yet. Still, it's very disconcerting to think the Chinese and Russians may have cracked his cache. A BBC security correspondent said this about the claims:

The phrases "neither confirm nor deny" and "no comment on intelligence matters" is being used by government to respond to Sunday Times' story.
But my understanding from conversations over an extended period is that since he fled two years ago, British intelligence have worked on the assumption that Russian and Chinese spies might have access to his full cache of secrets.
Snowden has always maintained that there is no way that other states could do this but the spies are likely to have thought it too risky to take the chance. In turn, this may have led to undercover agents being moved as a precaution.
Snowden himself would not have had access though to any kind of database of MI6 agents but the fear might have been that by piecing together any secrets on how such agents communicate that were in the files, the Russians and Chinese might have been able to identify them.
However, no one in government today is confirming that they are sure that the Russians and Chinese have got full access - that remains in the realm of "no comment".

[imabanana]

http://gawker.com/author-of-that-hor...rse-1711406342

And the story continues.. What a lovely article :')

10/10 pure BS sensationalist journalism for him. Getting on the front page of so many newspaper worldwide with absolutely nothing, that guy is strong.

[ringpriest]

Bruce Schneier weighs in on Snowden, China and Russia. The key point he makes? "I believe that both China and Russia had access to all the files that Snowden took well before Snowden took them because they’ve penetrated the NSA networks where those files reside." Schneier also points out that given how Snowden was storing his trove, directly stealing them from him would have been as close to impossible as it gets, but that stealing them from the journalists reporting on them (or even from Schneier himself) would have been quite possible (in the unlikely event China and Russia didn't already have them).

[IntellectuallyChallenged]

It's hard for me to form an opinion of someone I do not know. He has done nothing that affects my life in any way.

[Xires]

I think if he really wants to do us a favor he or anonymous should hack the documents for that TPP deal that is set to fuck us all over if it passes.

[ringpriest]

I think if he really wants to do us a favor he or anonymous should hack the documents for that TPP deal that is set to fuck us all over if it passes.

Already done (by Assange's Wikileaks):
https://search.wikileaks.org/?q=TPP

It's illuminating how the individuals telling the public what is being done by in their name, by their public servants rulers, are the ones called "traitors" and "enemies of the state" by the establishment.