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  1. #641
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duster505 View Post
    Really poor and utterly wrong logic. They can charge players extra for the expansions to fight inflation.
    And that would cause a lot of whine. So would sub increase by the way. Hence they're trying to catch up through other channels.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duster505 View Post
    In terms of cost per user.... They are probably getting BETTER deals now than what they had at launch of WOW since bandwith has been costing less over the last few years.
    Yes, but the inflation since 2004 is nothing to sneeze at, either. Also, you're missing the fact that the main expense is not hardware or bandwidth, but paying the army of developers and the marketing fees. And those are affected by the inflation too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duster505 View Post
    Can't remember the day when I was charged for just putting on my pants after I bought them in a store. But thats what Blizzard are aiming to do. Charge players for an item.. and then charge them for login into the game to use those items. ONLY GAME in the world that will do that.
    What are you ranting about? When you were a kid, you never went to a movie and then bought a poster or an action figurine after that? This is exactly the same stuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Netherspark View Post
    Stop trying to make it look like he's alone in this opinion. Roughly half of all comments have been negative, citing this as a reason.
    He's not alone, but speaking from a hypothetical "we" standpoint usually lights up the "BS inc." indicator pretty consistently.

    BC/LK raider ('07-'10)

  2. #642
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomana View Post
    And that would cause a lot of whine. So would sub increase by the way. Hence they're trying to catch up through other channels.


    Yes, but the inflation since 2004 is nothing to sneeze at, either. Also, you're missing the fact that the main expense is not hardware or bandwidth, but paying the army of developers and the marketing fees. And those are affected by the inflation too.


    What are you ranting about? When you were a kid, you never went to a movie and then bought a poster or an action figurine after that? This is exactly the same stuff.
    Blizzard STILL gets revenues for the content they make by selling the orginal game and expansions. This is NOT a free to play game and they don't need to fight your "inflation" with in game cashstore.

    Im not missing a single fact here. It seems that you have forgotten that WOW has paid for much of the TITAN development and lost many devs to that game as well. I think its just about time that the subscribers that are paying for WOW get their full worth of the sub put back into the game.

    And lastly ... Ye I bought a poster .... But I was not charged monthly fee by a greedy company for going into my room where the poster was hanging after that. If you dont see the difference... then I can't help you. But many of us can.
    Last edited by Duster505; 2013-07-13 at 03:28 PM.

  3. #643
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duster505 View Post
    Blizzard STILL gets revenues for the content they make by selling the orginal game and expansions. This is NOT a free to play game and they don't need to fight your "inflation" with in game cashstore.
    OK, let's straighten this out with a basic fact check: what is the total inflation rate in the US from 2004 to 2013? If you can't answer this question, your knowledge of economy is not worth mentioning or discussing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duster505 View Post
    Im not missing a single fact here. It seems that you have forgotten that WOW has payed for much of the TITAN development and those devs working on that game as well. I think its just about time that the subscribers that are paying for WOW get their full worth of the sub put back into the game.
    What is "full worth of sub" supposed to mean? If you don't raid heroic mode, do you get "full worth of the sub"? By your logic, you don't since there are items you don't have access to. Same question for rated PVP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duster505 View Post
    And lastly ... Ye I bought a poster .... But I was not charged monthly fee by a greedy company
    Nah, you only had crappy sequels and a lot more merchandises to buy. Oh yeah, and the VHS/DVD of the movie, let's not forget about it.

    BC/LK raider ('07-'10)

  4. #644
    The Lightbringer Grym's Avatar
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    Firstly, WHO define the rule that "if you are P2P, then you are not allowed to have a cash shop"?

    There isn't.

    You may not like it, but, if they can pull it off, and make money with it, I don't see why they wouldn't. A lot of the P2P that turned F2P games out there, you don't think they will do the same if they can pull it off without half the players leaving?

    Making money is pretty much always the #1 priority with companies, if I have something that I know people will pay for it even if I abuse it, you bet I am going to milk every one of you dry.

  5. #645
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomana View Post
    OK, let's straighten this out with a basic fact check: what is the total inflation rate in the US from 2004 to 2013? If you can't answer this question, your knowledge of economy is not worth mentioning or discussing.


    What is "full worth of sub" supposed to mean? If you don't raid heroic mode, do you get "full worth of the sub"? By your logic, you don't since there are items you don't have access to. Same question for rated PVP.


    Nah, you only had crappy sequels and a lot more merchandises to buy. Oh yeah, and the VHS/DVD of the movie, let's not forget about it.
    Stop making up your "facts". Blizzard is no longer making the vanilla content. But its still making them money. Stop acting like some sort of "inflation" is affecting that development work. You simply dont have a clue what your talking about.

    Full worth of sub means that you get get the money you pay for the game INTO that game but not into other games and their development. Every moron in the world can go and look at the cost that is put into WOW and then the revenues from the subs.

    And you are avoiding the issue that pretty much everyone can see here. Its OK for a F2P cash shop to add another poster or "VHS" tape into their game cause those games are NOT charging ppl for login in to the game in the first place. There is no grey line there. There is not a single other game out there that both charges for items and then forces you to pay a sub to just log into the game. Not one. And THATS a FACT !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grym View Post
    Firstly, WHO define the rule that "if you are P2P, then you are not allowed to have a cash shop"?

    There isn't.

    You may not like it, but, if they can pull it off, and make money with it, I don't see why they wouldn't. A lot of the P2P that turned F2P games out there, you don't think they will do the same if they can pull it off without half the players leaving?

    Making money is pretty much always the #1 priority with companies, if I have something that I know people will pay for it even if I abuse it, you bet I am going to milk every one of you dry.
    There is no rule... but no company in the world has been so stupid this far to show such disrespect to a paying consumer to then charge them extra for being able to use those items.

    Making money is not always the #1 priority of companies. It is #1 for greedy companies that dont respect paying consumers. If they can make more profit of it.... doesn't mean they aren't scumbags for doing it.

    So lets see... Good example of a company that could go the same route and start to charge SUB as well as charging for items also... Lets take STEAM for example. You buy the game and then charged 15$ per month for login into them. That would be very unethical to do ... but they would probably get away with it. But STEAM shows abit more respect to their paying consumers than that..... Even tho Blizzard doesn't.

  6. #646
    Quote Originally Posted by goinglohan View Post
    Different colour. It is not a sparkly effect. It is actual lightning/clouds. See you don't even know what you are talking about, so how can you comment?
    no, no it is not a different colour. it is the red cloud serpent with a small lightning effect added. its the exact same mount as the august celestials mount only red. you are the one who dont know what you are talking about
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
    "so what do we do?" "well jack, you stand there and say 'gee rocket raccoon I'm so glad you brought that Unfeasibly large cannon with you..' and i go like this BRAKKA BRAKKA BRAKKA" - Rocket Raccoon

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  7. #647
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duster505 View Post
    Stop making up your "facts". Blizzard is no longer making the vanilla content. But its still making them money. Stop acting like some sort of "inflation" is affecting that development work. You simply dont have a clue what your talking about.
    Answer the basic question about inflation rate first. If you're unable to do that, then you have no clue about what you're talking about because you're unable to combine some numbers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duster505 View Post
    Full worth of sub means that you get get the money you pay for the game INTO that game but not into other games and their development.
    And NO company on this planet does that. A part of the revenue goes into developing new products, otherwise it becomes a dead company. Unless you imagined otherwise? Well, then it only shows your lack of clue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duster505 View Post
    And you are avoiding the issue that pretty much everyone can see here. Its OK for a F2P cash shop to add another poster or "VHS" tape into their game cause those games are NOT charging ppl for login in to the game in the first place. There is no grey line there. There is not a single other game out there that both charges for items and then forces you to pay a sub to just log into the game. Not one. And THATS a FACT !
    Really? Well, phone companies certainly do charge you a fee and then make you pay for apps and the phone. Will you make up some other "fact" to counter that?

    BC/LK raider ('07-'10)

  8. #648
    While the helms are cool, I'd still like to ask a simple question:

    Where in god's green earth is my damned Fey Dragon Mount!

  9. #649
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    and so it begins... the screams of PAY TO WIN will echo throughout the land for ages, all because Blizzard put transmog items on the Blizzard Store.

    the Vocal Minority will scream "WHERE DOES IT END?!? WHATS NEXT GOLD ON THE BLIZZARD STORE? TIER 38? HEROIC DEMONHUNTERFORGED RETURN OF ILLIDAN RAID 3.0 GEAR???"

    all the while the silent majority just walks on by, "nothing to see here folks, move along"

  10. #650
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomana View Post
    Answer the basic question about inflation rate first. If you're unable to do that, then you have no clue about what you're talking about because you're unable to combine some numbers.


    And NO company on this planet does that. A part of the revenue goes into developing new products, otherwise it becomes a dead company. Unless you imagined otherwise? Well, then it only shows your lack of clue.


    Really? Well, phone companies certainly do charge you a fee and then make you pay for apps and the phone. Will you make up some other "fact" to counter that?
    Phone companies do not own those apps or the phones. You can STILL use your phones and apps you bought even if you move from one phone company to another.

    Blizzard owns both their servers and the "apps". You once again show total lack of understanding what you are talking about

  11. #651
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowflay View Post
    BREAKING NEWS! A company is trying to make money and people do NOT like that! pack your pitchforks and lets protest about this!
    That's an incredibly naive argument. You don't have to put up with a company's business practice. Vote with your wallet but never accept that a company is trying to make business at your expense without evaluating the service. You are not looking at the bigger picture here.

  12. #652


    I guess they have to fix the whole Vivendi situation somehow.

    Shame I just resubbed, this is phyiscally disgusting to me. The slippery slope starts here.

  13. #653
    Quote Originally Posted by segoplout View Post
    That's an incredibly naive argument. You don't have to put up with a company's business practice. Vote with your wallet but never accept that a company is trying to make business at your expense without evaluating the service. You are not looking at the bigger picture here.
    Ye - Totally agree with this. Paying consumers should be aware of company's business practice. And its pretty obvious that the current practice from Blizzard is shady to say the least compared to what other games and companies have been doing with their payment models.

  14. #654
    People quitting over this are just dumb. I see nothing wrong with it at all even though I wouldn't have one of those helms if they paid ME.

    I don't think WoW will ever go F2P but the notion that doing so is "where MMO's go to die" is just not true. LOTRO did it a while back and their revenues tripled and the sub base actually went up. They are very healthy and still turning out new content and expansions. That game, a fine one btw, has much more active servers than before. They do offer ways to buy the store items without paying real money though and that is the way to go. If you pay the sub cost, you get free store purchase points every month and you also get points for things you complete in the game. If you choose F2P you only get the points through your actions in game or purchasing more in the store. The only thing purchasable for real money are the Turbine points you use to buy store items but as I said, they can also be obtained in other ways.

  15. #655
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duster505 View Post
    Blizzard owns both their servers and the "apps". You once again show total lack of understanding what you are talking about
    And how does it change something? You still have to pay for the phone, the sub for the line and the apps.
    Moreover, a phone without a sub and apps does not work. But WoW without all those cosmetic items works just fine.

    Oh, and I'm still waiting on that inflation calculation from you.

    BC/LK raider ('07-'10)

  16. #656
    The Lightbringer Grym's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duster505 View Post
    There is no rule... but no company managed to do the same without losing 90% of their sub.
    Now that is more like it.

    And if STEAM will charge a monthly fee as well as buying the game, I simply stop using Steam, and probably a lot of people too.

    While you may say, a lot of people will also quit WoW too because of this, well, let's see. Historic data pretty much show Blizzard can add anything (as long as non power related) people will happily pay for it on top of their sub.

    Until people start complaining with their wallet, Blizzard probably will keep doing this.

  17. #657
    Quote Originally Posted by Dch48 View Post
    People quitting over this are just dumb. I see nothing wrong with it at all even though I wouldn't have one of those helms if they paid ME.

    I don't think WoW will ever go F2P but the notion that doing so is "where MMO's go to die" is just not true. LOTRO did it a while back and their revenues tripled and the sub base actually went up. They are very healthy and still turning out new content and expansions. That game, a fine one btw, has much more active servers than before. They do offer ways to buy the store items without paying real money though and that is the way to go. If you pay the sub cost, you get free store purchase points every month and you also get points for things you complete in the game. If you choose F2P you only get the points through your actions in game or purchasing more in the store. The only thing purchasable for real money are the Turbine points you use to buy store items but as I said, they can also be obtained in other ways.
    True... other MMO games have store but none of them is both charging for items and then charging you for login in. Thats where alot of ppl will put down their foot. Specially if Blizzard is putting in an ingame store.

    Games like LOTRO give players OPTIONS on how to play and if they spend money. Blizzard is not doing that with their system by the looks of things. They are making sure you have to pay for both items and then pay the sub and you have zero means to do anything else. Thats the unethical part about their model and shows total lack of respect in my opinion.

  18. #658
    I find it kind of hilarious that people are freaking out and threatening to quit over three transmog helms that are frankly quite ugly.

    Also: do any of you guys who are threatening to quit hate the fact that the BMAH offers heroic raiding gear periodically? Because if you're gonna quit over pay to win...welp...that's in game pay to win right there, and you never mention it.

    Blizzard has had a cash shop for in game items since Wrath. Thus far they've not offered anything with an in game advantage, and the things datamined to be in game advantages in 5.4 are going to a market with a totally different subscription model. Do you think you guys could stop with the "THEY OFFERED X, THAT MEANS NEXT IS BUYING YOUR HEROIC RAID GEAR" crap until they, you know, ACTUALLY DO IT?

  19. #659
    Alot of the complaints I see here are due to the fact that they believe this takes away from development time for subscription content, but honestly.... we are seeing more content added to the game now than at any point in the games history (the pace of content I mean). Nothing has been taken away from the core game, you have more than ever before. This is EXTRA development, for EXTRA cash, if you don't like it, speak with your wallet and don't buy it.

    The slippery slope argument is kind of unfounded too imo, there is a HUGE difference between offering cosmetic/convenience items and offering player power, and Blizzard knows this (That being said, if WoW ever did become pay2win I'd be right beside you grabbing my pitchfork :P)

  20. #660
    The Lightbringer Grym's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duster505 View Post
    True... other MMO games have store but none of them is both charging for items and then charging you for login in. Thats where alot of ppl will put down their foot. Specially if Blizzard is putting in an ingame store.
    Blizzard have charged us sub, AND paid services, AND store mounts, for how long?

    They have been doing this and got away with this for ages. And as long as they can get away with it, and with people still subbing, I don't see why any company wouldn't do it.

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