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  1. #461
    I am Murloc! roahn the warlock's Avatar
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    Everyone on this server has a line.. lets say hypothetically tomorrow they introduced LFR level gear on the store.. then would you have a problem with it.. From what im seeing a lot of people's line is at stats on gear.

    And it might never happen, but if it did, if it did, would you be okay with it? just because your line is at stats, doesn't make other's whose line is at moggible gear somehow lesser people than you, or wrong. That is what they want to fight against.

    in the hypothetical world, if there was stat gear, you wouldn't be able to fight that either, because blizzard is a company and you can always do normal or heroic modes for better gear.
    It was never Hardcore Vs Casual. It was Socialites Vs. Solo players
    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post
    World of Warcraft started life as a Computer Roleplaying Game, where part of the fun of the game experience was pretending to be your character. Stuff like applying poisons and eating food enhanced the verisimilitude of the experience of playing a fantasy character in another world. Now that game has changed to become a tactical arcade lobby game.

  2. #462
    Quote Originally Posted by Ichifails View Post
    You do realize people work in teams? It is continuous development but as they said in a press release (I'll find it, don't worry) not all departments work even tho work never stops.

    All you people seem to believe that Blizzard has "ALL THIS MONEY FROM SUBSCRIPTIONS" when subs aren't even paying for costs of producing the content at the rate they are now.

    Vivendi(61% stake) for the past years didn't take THEIR money from Blizzard's reserves. Now the agreement that they won't take money will expire and Vivendi is looking to take their money(what was it? around 5bil?)... and that would leave Blizzard 400 million IN DEBT. They will get their shares back but they will owe Vivendi another 400mil.

    Blizzard's operating costs are large enough for only a subscription model to not cover. At least not when they were shilling 61% to Vivendi.
    Then it's high time they lower their operating costs to more acceptable levels.

    Vivendi screwing ActivisionBlizzard over bigtime only shows how far we are removed from the Blizzard Entertainment of a few years ago.

  3. #463
    Over 9000! Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon2K View Post
    I don't see why everyone appears to be completely content with non-competitive players being nickled and dimed to death ("it doesn't affect PVP, so it DOESN'T MATTER").
    What motivation is driving them to be nickle and dimed to death?

    I've never had anyone give me an answer.
    "Do not look down, my friend. Even in the darkest of times, there is always hope... Hope for a better day, hope for a new dawn... Or just hope for a good breakfast. You start small, then see what you can get." ~ Covetous Shen
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  4. #464
    I am Murloc! roahn the warlock's Avatar
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    just because it doesn't matter to you, doesn't mean it doesnt matter to other people.. maybe I dont think cash for 358 gear doesn't matter. hb that? if that happened
    It was never Hardcore Vs Casual. It was Socialites Vs. Solo players
    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post
    World of Warcraft started life as a Computer Roleplaying Game, where part of the fun of the game experience was pretending to be your character. Stuff like applying poisons and eating food enhanced the verisimilitude of the experience of playing a fantasy character in another world. Now that game has changed to become a tactical arcade lobby game.

  5. #465
    Over 9000! Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roahn the warlock View Post
    Everyone on this server has a line.. lets say hypothetically tomorrow they introduced LFR level gear on the store.. then would you have a problem with it.. From what im seeing a lot of people's line is at stats on gear.

    And it might never happen, but if it did, if it did, would you be okay with it? just because your line is at stats, doesn't make other's whose line is at moggible gear somehow lesser people than you, or wrong. That is what they want to fight against.

    in the hypothetical world, if there was stat gear, you wouldn't be able to fight that either, because blizzard is a company and you can always do normal or heroic modes for better gear.
    Because transmog gear is ultimately cosmetic; and if the issue about cosmetic items being sold for real money or taking art assets away from the game is the contentious issue, that ship sailed back in Burning Crusade. Whining about it as some "unforgivable new precedent" when it's been going on this entire time is incredibly tiring and annoying.
    "Do not look down, my friend. Even in the darkest of times, there is always hope... Hope for a better day, hope for a new dawn... Or just hope for a good breakfast. You start small, then see what you can get." ~ Covetous Shen
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  6. #466
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    What motivation is driving them to be nickle and dimed to death?

    I've never had anyone give me an answer.
    Their unbridled addiction to wow.

  7. #467
    Over 9000! Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barnabas View Post
    Their unbridled addiction to wow.
    If they were collection fanatics, the 25$ they'd have to drop on the bat would pale in the face of the couple hundred they'd have to drop on a spectral tiger...
    "Do not look down, my friend. Even in the darkest of times, there is always hope... Hope for a better day, hope for a new dawn... Or just hope for a good breakfast. You start small, then see what you can get." ~ Covetous Shen
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  8. #468
    I am Murloc! roahn the warlock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Because transmog gear is ultimately cosmetic; and if the issue about cosmetic items being sold for real money or taking art assets away from the game is the contentious issue, that ship sailed back in Burning Crusade.
    I'm in full tyranical gladiator, I could care less about honor gear because I don't do BG's it doesn't effect arenas. so I don't care. honor gear is ultimatly cosmetic to me if I like the pervious season gear.

    also... challenge mode gear is purely cosmetic.. I don't get this point? I did challenge modes trying to get that purely cosmetic gear. what if it was put in the cash shop?
    It was never Hardcore Vs Casual. It was Socialites Vs. Solo players
    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post
    World of Warcraft started life as a Computer Roleplaying Game, where part of the fun of the game experience was pretending to be your character. Stuff like applying poisons and eating food enhanced the verisimilitude of the experience of playing a fantasy character in another world. Now that game has changed to become a tactical arcade lobby game.

  9. #469
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    What motivation is driving them to be nickle and dimed to death?

    I've never had anyone give me an answer.
    The fact that through the movement towards the best-looking sets being available through the item store the proposition for looking the way you want to look is becoming a lot more real-money oriented, even though you already pay a full subscription.
    For me it's also that I want my gameworld to be a gameworld. Real money has no place in it. That's why I think an ingame store is considerably worse than the current web store.

  10. #470
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon2K View Post
    Then it's high time they lower their operating costs to more acceptable levels.

    Vivendi screwing ActivisionBlizzard over bigtime only shows how far we are removed from the Blizzard Entertainment of a few years ago.
    But Vivendi owns Blizzard for what...
    "The company sold its consumer software operations, Sierra On-line which included Blizzard, to French publisher Havas in 1998, the same year Havas was purchased by Vivendi"
    They own Blizzard for 15 years now but they want to get rid of video games: "Vivendi is huge megacorporation that has stakes in various different industries, including oil, music, and videogames. It is looking to reduce its exposure to telecoms, and focus more on media businesses."

  11. #471
    Quote Originally Posted by Ichifails View Post
    But Vivendi owns Blizzard for what...
    "The company sold its consumer software operations, Sierra On-line which included Blizzard, to French publisher Havas in 1998, the same year Havas was purchased by Vivendi"
    They own Blizzard for 15 years now but they want to get rid of video games: "Vivendi is huge megacorporation that has stakes in various different industries, including oil, music, and videogames. It is looking to reduce its exposure to telecoms, and focus more on media businesses."
    Vivendi wants to get rid of Blizzard and noone's buying because Blizzard stocks look to be dropping in the near future rather than rising. I don't think Blizzard's current strategy of 'increased monetization' is going to help the company in the long run.

  12. #472
    Quote Originally Posted by roahn the warlock View Post
    I'm in full tyranical gladiator, I could care less about honor gear because I don't do BG's it doesn't effect arenas. so I don't care. honor gear is ultimatly cosmetic to me if I like the pervious season gear.

    also... challenge mode gear is purely cosmetic.. I don't get this point? I did challenge modes trying to get that purely cosmetic gear. what if it was put in the cash shop?
    Challenge Mode gear in the cash shop is something people are asking for. I know people that payed 200-250$ for others to boost them through Challenge Modes.

    And the honor gear thing is retarded. As soon as it has any power increase (even if it's 1stat; only usable by level 90's) it becomes Pay to Win or Buying Power. It doesn't matter if it's cosmetic for YOU, it has to be cosmetic for everyone.

  13. #473
    Over 9000! Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roahn the warlock View Post
    I'm in full tyranical gladiator, I could care less about honor gear because I don't do BG's it doesn't effect arenas. so I don't care. honor gear is ultimatly cosmetic to me if I like the pervious season gear.
    Because honor gear gives players actual statistical advantages over OTHER players. Because something is "cosmetic for you" because it offers "worse stats" does not actually make it "only cosmetic," because it STILL offers stats that would striate players on what they can accomplish in-game and what they can contribute to their team based on their wallets. You can hem and haw your way around "true cosmetic gear being less or more important" to people, but at the end of the day, it's nothing but cosmetic. Gear with stats is not.

    also... challenge mode gear is purely cosmetic.. I don't get this point? I did challenge modes trying to get that purely cosmetic gear. what if it was put in the cash shop?
    Then it wouldn't have been challenge mode gear, it would have been shop gear.


    And you didn't actually answer my question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon2K View Post
    The fact that through the movement towards the best-looking sets being available through the item store.
    I'm going to stop you there...

    based on what?
    Last edited by Kaleredar; 2013-07-14 at 06:07 AM.
    "Do not look down, my friend. Even in the darkest of times, there is always hope... Hope for a better day, hope for a new dawn... Or just hope for a good breakfast. You start small, then see what you can get." ~ Covetous Shen
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  14. #474
    I am Murloc! roahn the warlock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ichifails View Post
    Challenge Mode gear in the cash shop is something people are asking for. I know people that payed 200-250$ for others to boost them through Challenge Modes.

    And the honor gear thing is retarded. As soon as it has any power increase (even if it's 1stat; only usable by level 90's) it becomes Pay to Win or Buying Power. It doesn't matter if it's cosmetic for YOU, it has to be cosmetic for everyone.
    of course they are... sigh I give up, elder scrolls is coming out soon.
    It was never Hardcore Vs Casual. It was Socialites Vs. Solo players
    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post
    World of Warcraft started life as a Computer Roleplaying Game, where part of the fun of the game experience was pretending to be your character. Stuff like applying poisons and eating food enhanced the verisimilitude of the experience of playing a fantasy character in another world. Now that game has changed to become a tactical arcade lobby game.

  15. #475
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon2K View Post
    Vivendi wants to get rid of Blizzard and noone's buying because Blizzard stocks look to be dropping in the near future rather than rising. I don't think Blizzard's current strategy of 'increased monetization' is going to help the company in the long run.
    That only time can tell. But it's still pretty stupid how people assume that their sub fee goes into Blizzard's pockets and they use 0 of that to run a company.

  16. #476
    I am Murloc! roahn the warlock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ichifails View Post
    That only time can tell. But it's still pretty stupid how people assume that their sub fee goes into Blizzard's pockets and they use 0 of that to run a company.
    This seems to be a better debate to throw around. This new system seems like a bandage. I think they need to really focus on bringing out either some new content that will either shut down other mmo's or get more people in. I honestly think they are just gonna bandage wow until 2016 and titan comes out
    It was never Hardcore Vs Casual. It was Socialites Vs. Solo players
    Quote Originally Posted by ringpriest View Post
    World of Warcraft started life as a Computer Roleplaying Game, where part of the fun of the game experience was pretending to be your character. Stuff like applying poisons and eating food enhanced the verisimilitude of the experience of playing a fantasy character in another world. Now that game has changed to become a tactical arcade lobby game.

  17. #477
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    I'm going to stop you there...

    based on what?
    No you're not going to 'stop me there', you patronizing twat.
    Based on how item store mounts have for some time now been more labour-intensive than the majority of mounts from the game (very special mounts like Invincible being an exception). They often have more attention to detail, particle effects and other stuff DESIGNED TO MAKE PEOPLE WANT TO BUY THEM (how strange?).
    The helmets they have shown now are ALSO of outstanding quality.

    The reason is obvious; if they weren't, people wouldn't be inclined to buy them. But because they ARE, they have a very REAL value in the game while only being available for EXTRA money compared to the subscription.
    This is not functionally different from gear that has stats on it and THEREFORE also has a REAL value in the game (which appears to be why people have a problem with stat gear in the item shop).

  18. #478
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    If they were collection fanatics, the 25$ they'd have to drop on the bat would pale in the face of the couple hundred they'd have to drop on a spectral tiger...
    Depends if you got one of the cloned spectral tigers or not.

  19. #479
    Over 9000! Kaleredar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon2K View Post
    No you're not going to 'stop me there', you patronizing twat.
    Your entire POINT was predicated on a completely subjective claim. So you're damn straight I'm going to "stop you."

    Based on how item store mounts have for some time now been more labour-intensive than the majority of mounts from the game (very special mounts like Invincible being an exception).
    Yeah, it also took two patches for the helmets to be released, and that's only after they made it into the game files to be datamined. That you THINK "special mounts" took as much work as store mounts doesn't make it so.

    Namely because:

    Firehawks use a recycled proto drake skeleton. But you know what, Invincible uses a recycled hippogryph skeleton, and I'm pretty damn sure the Firehawks took more time to design than invincible, seeing as they're bursting with particle effects. Ever see what a firehawk looks like in the raw game files? It took a hell of a lot of particle effect tempering to make it look the way it does in-game. And I can guarantee you that the sky serpents took a LOT more work than Invincible did.

    You just THINK that invincible "looks on par" with store mounts, and therefore OBVIOUSLY must have required as much work to design.

    They often have more attention to detail, particle effects and other stuff DESIGNED TO MAKE PEOPLE WANT TO BUY THEM (how strange?).
    The mounts are going to look like what they're going to look like. Do you think the recent PvP mounts or the Engineering mech mount look poorly detailed and or sloppily done? And if you do, guess what... the key part of that is: You THINK.

    The helmets they have shown now are ALSO of outstanding quality.
    Actually, I think the flame one looks stupid (wouldn't match a thing,) the blue one is cartoony (think how stupid it would look on a bald character,) and the red one looks like that old warlock tier helm.

    The reason is obvious; if they weren't, people wouldn't be inclined to buy them. But because they ARE, they have a very REAL value in the game while only being available for EXTRA money compared to the subscription.

    This is not functionally different from gear that has stats on it and THEREFORE also has a REAL value in the game (which appears to be why people have a problem with stat gear in the item shop).
    Frankly, I'd think it stupid to pay for cosmetic items. But hey, if people want to, it doesn't make them any "better" or place in a better position to play the game than I'd be in for not buying them, so I don't particularly care.
    Last edited by Kaleredar; 2013-07-14 at 06:30 AM.
    "Do not look down, my friend. Even in the darkest of times, there is always hope... Hope for a better day, hope for a new dawn... Or just hope for a good breakfast. You start small, then see what you can get." ~ Covetous Shen
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right...
    Words to live by.

  20. #480
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post
    Frankly, I'd think it stupid to pay for cosmetic items. But hey, if people want to, it doesn't make them any "better" or place in a better position to play the game than I'd be in for not buying them.
    Because cosmetics aren't important to you. That is fine, but it is not everyone's view. Whether you can pay to get better gear (hey, it could be just as good as other gear, but you wouldn't have to spend any time on it! How does that sound?) has little effect on *me*, because I'm not one for hardcore raiding or PVP. So try to stop reasoning from such a self-centered perspective.

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