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  1. #721
    Quote Originally Posted by Hipnos14 View Post
    Like the bat mount that a lot of people, including myself, have been asking for since the introduction of flying mounts in BC? Yeah, I know that feel T_T
    Perfect example and my point exactly.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Duster505 View Post
    The only person that has zero understanding on the basics of what WOW is built on is you Mr. And you best show that when you call ppl that are not willing to pay extra as lazy... And idiots. No they are not. That sort of logic just shows how far YOU are from reality if you think Blizzard can come out with statement like that.

    Blizzard can not have it both ways. Thats just a fact. They can not both keep subscription and ingame cash shop. You might accept it.... but like I said... You dont get the logic of basic consumer rights. Blizzard WOULD be betraying players that have been paying for this game for years if they add the shop and still expect the same ppl to pay sub. Thats just a fact that not even you with your poor logic can not debate. Cause Blizzard said it THEMSELFS few years back. And thats just a fact they and you have to accept.

    We chose to go with the subscription-based model instead of that approach. We've taken the approach that we want players to feel like it's a level playing field once they're in WoW. Outside resources don't play into it -- no gold buying, etc. We take a hard line stance against it. What you get out of microtransactions is kind of the same thing and I think our player base would feel betrayed by it. I think that's something else you have to decide on up-front instead of implementing later.

    --Rob Pardo, Blizzard's Senior Vice President of Game Design (2/20/2008)


    It was not ME that said ppl have the right to feel betrayed. It was the Senior Vice President of game design at BLizzard. So putting "betrayed" in "" just shows your lack of real logics instead of accepting the bloody obvious that Blizzard can not come back few years later after adding few mounts and pets and rip the core out of the game - and still think 8 million players are willing to pay subs like nothing happened. It doesn't work like that Mister.
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  2. #722
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    There is no evidence that any extra profit generated from the item shop will be spent creating more content. We have had an item store since Wrath yet Cata had a lot less content and MOP whilst better than Cata still has less zones that are smaller, less dungeons and although, some will disagree, I do not think the raids are as good as Ulduar or ICC.
    We actually had more dungeons and more raids in BC than we do now (before the shop), and they said those are the most "time consuming" to make.

  3. #723
    Legendary! Taftvalue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ACES View Post
    The latter is designed to bring in additional revenue to be able to develop more content.

    naive child
    There is only one god and his name is Sargeras.

  4. #724
    Quote Originally Posted by Tempeste View Post
    We actually had more dungeons and more raids in BC than we do now (before the shop), and they said those are the most "time consuming" to make.
    True - and MOP is the first expansion that does not add 5 man dungeons in content patches. And its the expasnion with the lowest number of new 5 man dungeons ever. Still noone is arguing that 5 man dungeons are the core of the game when it comes to learning to play with other players. Ask any Tank or healer what they have learned in scenarios this expansion and you see why we have long Qs in LFR.

  5. #725
    Quote Originally Posted by Tempeste View Post
    We actually had more dungeons and more raids in BC than we do now (before the shop), and they said those are the most "time consuming" to make.
    Their priorities have shifted from traditional 5 mans and raids format. I doubt we'll ever see the good amount of 5 mans again, like TBC-era heroics, which is a great shame and a deal breaker for many.

    In order to support all their new ideas in form of scenarios, brawler's, challenge modes, proving grounds, pet battles and everything else they had to cut somewhere, too bad it was 5 mans and not shit like dailies.

  6. #726
    I'd love to know how long these people who spout "You pay a monthly fee to be able to log in to your account and play; nothing more, nothing less. " would hang about happily paying their sub if Blizzard stopped producing content patches just to access those servers "nothing more, nothing less". Blizzard may say this to cover their asses in event of periods of slow content production, but see how long the truth of it stands if it's ever tested. Subscription does bring certain expectations whether you want to admit to them or not. Yeah, I'm just going to pay £9 per month to access a server.

  7. #727
    Quote Originally Posted by madrox View Post
    I'd love to know how long these people who spout "You pay a monthly fee to be able to log in to your account and play; nothing more, nothing less. " would hang about happily paying their sub if Blizzard stopped producing content patches just to access those servers "nothing more, nothing less". Blizzard may say this to cover their asses in event of periods of slow content production, but see how long the truth of it stands if it's ever tested. Subscription does bring certain expectations whether you want to admit to them or not. Yeah, I'm just going to pay £9 per month to access a server.
    The funniest thing is Blizzard never said that, it's like people are happy to willingly advocate Blizzard on matters that don't even exist, it's a company's dream to have a fanbase like this.

  8. #728
    Quote Originally Posted by Syran View Post
    Their priorities have shifted from traditional 5 mans and raids format. I doubt we'll ever see the good amount of 5 mans again, like TBC-era heroics, which is a great shame and a deal breaker for many.

    In order to support all their new ideas in form of scenarios, brawler's, challenge modes, proving grounds, pet battles and everything else they had to cut somewhere, too bad it was 5 mans and not shit like dailies.
    Ugh, god I know. I feel like 5 mans are much more iconic to WoW than dailies.

  9. #729
    Herald of the Titans Asmodias's Avatar
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    What you say is true... for the most part. Though, we can't say for certain that actual gear won't appear in this Cash shop...

    There is a worry there. The cash shop is the foot in the door for Blizzard to sell all manner of items. Just because they aren't selling gear now, doesn't mean that they won't in the future. I think we can all agree that we hope they don't go that route... but one never knows.

    There are a couple ways this could go, Blizzard migrates from a sub to a microtransaction F2P model. Blizzard keeps only cosmetic items in the cash shop (IE... No gear that has any actual, useful stats on it) and retains the sub. Blizzard changes WoW to include "Pay to Win" and keeps the sub.

    Personally, I have no reason to fearful of the cash shop... We just have to see how it plays out.


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  10. #730
    Quote Originally Posted by Asmodias View Post
    What you say is true... for the most part. Though, we can't say for certain that actual gear won't appear in this Cash shop...

    There is a worry there. The cash shop is the foot in the door for Blizzard to sell all manner of items. Just because they aren't selling gear now, doesn't mean that they won't in the future. I think we can all agree that we hope they don't go that route... but one never knows.

    There are a couple ways this could go, Blizzard migrates from a sub to a microtransaction F2P model. Blizzard keeps only cosmetic items in the cash shop (IE... No gear that has any actual, useful stats on it) and retains the sub. Blizzard changes WoW to include "Pay to Win" and keeps the sub.

    Personally, I have no reason to fearful of the cash shop... We just have to see how it plays out.
    This is exactly the point that needs to be kept alive. The in game cash shop with micro transaction IS the line. If Blizzard crosses that line they have total and utter freedom to do whatever they want with it. Cause it opens up a resource in the game that is DIRECTLY connected to real money. It will change the game for good and there is no turning back. It doesn't matter if it starts with 1 pet and 1 mount and 1 helmet. There WILL then be way to buy power for real money directly in the game. Thats NOT acceptable in a sub based game.

    If Blizzard decides to add in game cash shop and expect to hold subscribers... I will have zero problem to never look back at WOW. I will NOT pay for expansions and then subscription to then be greeted with in game cash shop. No matter what is in that shop. Why should I bother if I know I will be greeted with same sort of cash shop in a F2P game where I dont pay sub.

    Blizzard can adopt to some sort of hybrid model as other games are doing. But they can NOT add ingame cash shop and expect subscribers to find that acceptable. Thats where ppl need to put down their foot cause its the last line of defence. Players will be totally powerless to then combat 1 new item that crosses into the grey area 1 month or 1 year later. And we know that item is coming. It WILL be in the Asian cash shop from start and is called 100% extra XP boost. If the game is really so boring that it needs XP boost then SUBSCRIBERS should have a choise to buy that XP boost potion for 1 gold In a NPC shop.

    The choice is 100% clear. Subscription or Cash shop. Blizzard can not have both and expect subscribers to buy power on top of their subs. Thats just disgrace.
    Last edited by Duster505; 2013-07-16 at 09:25 PM.

  11. #731
    A brief and incomplete list of things your subscription money gets spent on.

    World of Warcraft
    Diablo III
    Starcraft II
    Hearthstone
    Titan
    Blizzcon
    Advertising
    Electricity
    Diet Mountain Dew
    Christmas Bonuses
    Statues of Orcs

    And way, way down at the bottom of the list we come to:

    the Cash Shop.

  12. #732
    Just like the other games that are/were on subscriptions...the purpose for a sub is money for support, servers, and future content. They even said on the old site it was for future content. So we are supposed to believe now the sub goes exclusively to being able to log in?

  13. #733
    Quote Originally Posted by bigmac View Post
    Just like the other games that are/were on subscriptions...the purpose for a sub is money for support, servers, and future content. They even said on the old site it was for future content. So we are supposed to believe now the sub goes exclusively to being able to log in?
    Even if thats the case... IF they add cash shop they should do exactly the same as ALL other F2P games that have ingame cash shop. You let the items in the game pay for the service for the players to USE that item in the game at ANY time they want to use it. Its not complicated. And its the reason there has always been clear line between subscription based games and cash shop games. There has NEVER ever been a subscription based game with in game cash shop. Never. And there never will be as long as I have any say on it.

  14. #734
    Scarab Lord UnifiedDivide's Avatar
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    We chose to go with the subscription-based model instead of that approach. We've taken the approach that we want players to feel like it's a level playing field once they're in WoW. Outside resources don't play into it -- no gold buying, etc. We take a hard line stance against it. What you get out of microtransactions is kind of the same thing and I think our player base would feel betrayed by it. I think that's something else you have to decide on up-front instead of implementing later.

    --Rob Pardo, Blizzard's Senior Vice President of Game Design (2/20/2008)
    I can't believe someone is actually using this 5 year old quote to make an argument for what should happen, or not, today. The world changes, my friend. More rapidly than you might think.

    What some of you need to realise is that the cash shop IS coming. It may not have the XP buff or anything like that but it IS coming. The main point of the cash shop is to get the online Blizzard Store in the game for faster purchasing. You can fight them having the XP buff and so on all you like but it is pointless to fight them over having an in-game shop altogether.

    And no, none of it is P2W so far. Mounts are cosmetic and do not provide player power. They are not P2W.

    Sometimes updated...

  15. #735
    Quote Originally Posted by Drilnos View Post
    A brief and incomplete list of things your subscription money gets spent on.

    World of Warcraft
    Diablo III
    Starcraft II
    Hearthstone
    Titan
    Blizzcon
    Advertising
    Electricity
    Diet Mountain Dew
    Christmas Bonuses
    Statues of Orcs

    And way, way down at the bottom of the list we come to:

    the Cash Shop.
    Every item put in the cash shop, which is already behind a pay-wall, is one less item that gets added in game.

    I don't really like the look of those helmets, but the skeleton horse looks kind of cool. I'm not paying £9 just to be allowed to use the item i've paid £15 for. I wouldn't mind so much if you could buy any/all cash-shop items with an in-game currency, but telling people they can't use an item they've purchased unless they pay to access it, is a bit too much.

    If Blizzard wants to sell stuff in a cash-shop, make WoW free to play. I can't think of any other game, besides maybe multiplayer titles on the 360 that makes you pay for a product, then pay for it again monthly to access. Even in the case of the 360 games such as COD, Battlefield, Halo etc. you can still play the single player portion.

    Even games that are entirely multiplayer focused like Tribes or Planetside 2 are free to play. They don't double-dip and they don't come up with excuses like "we can't make raids AND dungeons, it's got to be raids OR dungeons because we don't have enough money..." like Blizzard does.

  16. #736
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    I can't believe someone is actually using this 5 year old quote to make an argument for what should happen, or not, today. The world changes, my friend. More rapidly than you might think.

    What some of you need to realise is that the cash shop IS coming. It may not have the XP buff or anything like that but it IS coming. The main point of the cash shop is to get the online Blizzard Store in the game for faster purchasing. You can fight them having the XP buff and so on all you like but it is pointless to fight them over having an in-game shop altogether.

    And no, none of it is P2W so far. Mounts are cosmetic and do not provide player power. They are not P2W.
    5 year old quote or 5 day old does not matter. The game has always been built on the same principle. If BLizzard is adding a cash shop then fine. But then they also need to admit the world HAS changed and you can not have both sub and Cash shop and still say its the same game. Cause it is not.

    As long as there IS cash shop coming we know that there IS coming the ability to buy power. That is just a given fact. Your logic of Blizzard saying something now about it will no longer hold water in 5 years time..... right ?

    It doesn't matter what is in that cash shop. Players can now take a clear stand and say no thank you by unsubing from the game and show that its not acceptable to act like nothing changes when you add ingame currency directly connected to real life money. And then expect ppl to also pay full sub and buy the expansion on top of that.

  17. #737
    Legendary! Tommo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duster505 View Post
    We chose to go with the subscription-based model instead of that approach. We've taken the approach that we want players to feel like it's a level playing field once they're in WoW. Outside resources don't play into it -- no gold buying, etc. We take a hard line stance against it. What you get out of microtransactions is kind of the same thing and I think our player base would feel betrayed by it. I think that's something else you have to decide on up-front instead of implementing later.

    --Rob Pardo, Blizzard's Senior Vice President of Game Design (2/20/2008)
    Quoted for fucking irony. Have a good read of this folks.

  18. #738
    Quote Originally Posted by zaxlor View Post
    Every item put in the cash shop, which is already behind a pay-wall, is one less item that gets added in game.

    I don't really like the look of those helmets, but the skeleton horse looks kind of cool. I'm not paying £9 just to be allowed to use the item i've paid £15 for. I wouldn't mind so much if you could buy any/all cash-shop items with an in-game currency, but telling people they can't use an item they've purchased unless they pay to access it, is a bit too much.

    If Blizzard wants to sell stuff in a cash-shop, make WoW free to play. I can't think of any other game, besides maybe multiplayer titles on the 360 that makes you pay for a product, then pay for it again monthly to access. Even in the case of the 360 games such as COD, Battlefield, Halo etc. you can still play the single player portion.

    Even games that are entirely multiplayer focused like Tribes or Planetside 2 are free to play. They don't double-dip and they don't come up with excuses like "we can't make raids AND dungeons, it's got to be raids OR dungeons because we don't have enough money..." like Blizzard does.
    This is the real crux of the matter for me. I don't mind a well developed and implemented cash shop and have spent the equivalent of a couple weeks wages on stores like Rift's and TSW's, but a cash shop not only has to developed with items which complement the game rather than detract too much from it and have a solid business model behind it. If blizzard want to lock cosmetic and "convenience" items behind a cash shop paywall so be it, but I won't be hanging around if they expect me to enjoy those items through two paywalls.

  19. #739
    Quote Originally Posted by madrox View Post
    This is the real crux of the matter for me. I don't mind a well developed and implemented cash shop and have spent the equivalent of a couple weeks wages on stores like Rift's and TSW's, but a cash shop not only has to developed with items which complement the game rather than detract too much from it and have a solid business model behind it. If blizzard want to lock cosmetic and "convenience" items behind a cash shop paywall so be it, but I won't be hanging around if they expect me to enjoy those items through two paywalls.
    So true !!! In game cash shop is not acceptable in a sub based game. And thats final for me.

  20. #740
    Quote Originally Posted by ACES View Post
    Every time Blizzard announces something new for the pet store we see the same threads come up about how a game with a monthly sub fee shouldn't have a microtransaction store. I get really frustrated when I see these posts because some people just don't get it.

    You pay a monthly fee to be able to log in to your account and play; nothing more, nothing less.
    WIth all due respect, I'll determine the value of my $15 a month - thank you.

    My value is based on this:

    4 months of WoW = $60
    1 entirely brand new game = $60
    2-3 used games = $60

    Do you spend your 4 months with $60 worth of brand-new never-before-seen content equal to that of any brand--new game like, say, Skyrim?
    "Tell them only that the Lich King is dead... and that World of Warcraft... died with him..."

    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    That's the ONLY reason you would post 9600 posts over 3 years: a mission of hate.

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