Page 38 of 51 FirstFirst ...
28
36
37
38
39
40
48
... LastLast
  1. #741
    Quote Originally Posted by ACES View Post
    Every time Blizzard announces something new for the pet store we see the same threads come up about how a game with a monthly sub fee shouldn't have a microtransaction store. I get really frustrated when I see these posts because some people just don't get it.

    You pay a monthly fee to be able to log in to your account and play; nothing more, nothing less.
    WIth all due respect, I'll determine the value of my $15 a month - thank you.

    My value is based on this:

    4 months of WoW = $60
    1 entirely brand new game = $60
    2-3 used games = $60

    Do you spend your 4 months with $60 worth of brand-new never-before-seen content equal to that of any brand--new game like, say, Skyrim?
    "Tell them only that the Lich King is dead... and that World of Warcraft... died with him..."

    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    That's the ONLY reason you would post 9600 posts over 3 years: a mission of hate.

  2. #742
    Quote Originally Posted by zaxlor View Post
    Every item put in the cash shop, which is already behind a pay-wall, is one less item that gets added in game.

    I don't really like the look of those helmets, but the skeleton horse looks kind of cool. I'm not paying £9 just to be allowed to use the item i've paid £15 for. I wouldn't mind so much if you could buy any/all cash-shop items with an in-game currency, but telling people they can't use an item they've purchased unless they pay to access it, is a bit too much.

    If Blizzard wants to sell stuff in a cash-shop, make WoW free to play. I can't think of any other game, besides maybe multiplayer titles on the 360 that makes you pay for a product, then pay for it again monthly to access. Even in the case of the 360 games such as COD, Battlefield, Halo etc. you can still play the single player portion.

    Even games that are entirely multiplayer focused like Tribes or Planetside 2 are free to play. They don't double-dip and they don't come up with excuses like "we can't make raids AND dungeons, it's got to be raids OR dungeons because we don't have enough money..." like Blizzard does.
    That's what's known as an assumption. If there were no cash shop, they might not have made any of the items at all, or if they did, never implemented them, because they couldn't figure out a way to make them a thematic fit for the content they were making.

  3. #743
    The Lightbringer UnifiedDivide's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    3,358
    Quote Originally Posted by Duster505 View Post
    5 year old quote or 5 day old does not matter. The game has always been built on the same principle. If BLizzard is adding a cash shop then fine. But then they also need to admit the world HAS changed and you can not have both sub and Cash shop and still say its the same game. Cause it is not.

    As long as there IS cash shop coming we know that there IS coming the ability to buy power. That is just a given fact. Your logic of Blizzard saying something now about it will no longer hold water in 5 years time..... right ?

    It doesn't matter what is in that cash shop. Players can now take a clear stand and say no thank you by unsubing from the game and show that its not acceptable to act like nothing changes when you add ingame currency directly connected to real life money. And then expect ppl to also pay full sub and buy the expansion on top of that.
    Of course it matters how old the quote is. Blizzard can't expect to survive the exact same way they have 2 years ago, nevermind 5. The world changes rapidly as do the people. Blizzard have to move with both of those. I will agree that it would likely be better to go F2P and have the cash shop though.

    That's quite a big assumption. And a ridiculous one. You don't know anything. You are merely guessing. Just as everyone else that is crying P2W are doing. Despite what people may believe, Blizzard are not stupid and will never give players that option to buy power. They know how fast subs will drop if they did. An assumption is not a fact.

    I've got nothing against people complaining about the cash shop. More power to 'em!
    The problem I have is people clutching at any straw to make an argument for why it's bad. If you think it's bad, let them know, unsub, whatever. Stop trying to convince those that either don't care or don't mind that they need to unsub or shout at Blizzard about it. If they feel the same as you (not you specifically), then they will likely do the same anyway.
    Last edited by UnifiedDivide; 2013-07-16 at 09:54 PM.

    Rarely updated...

  4. #744
    Quote Originally Posted by madrox View Post
    This is the real crux of the matter for me. I don't mind a well developed and implemented cash shop and have spent the equivalent of a couple weeks wages on stores like Rift's and TSW's, but a cash shop not only has to developed with items which complement the game rather than detract too much from it and have a solid business model behind it. If blizzard want to lock cosmetic and "convenience" items behind a cash shop paywall so be it, but I won't be hanging around if they expect me to enjoy those items through two paywalls.
    The better thing to do and I don't know why more/if any companies do it, is have a donation box.

    It wouldn't be tied to anything, wouldn't confer anything in return, wouldn't give any advantages and the only "physical" thing you'd receive is an e-mail saying thanks for supporting the company.

    That way, the people that really fucking love Blizzard can spend say £100 a month on them. They get to choose what their subscription is worth. I've got no idea how many people would use this kind of feature, but why not add something like this? Websites have "please donate here" paypal boxes, why can't Blizzard? Maybe it'd give some kind of weird signal, much like merging servers does, that all is not well.

    I still think someone actually wanting, really wanting to pay you more for a product because they tottally support it is better than cutting that product into parts and selling them off in different sized chunks and prices.

  5. #745
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    I can't believe someone is actually using this 5 year old quote to make an argument for what should happen, or not, today. The world changes, my friend. More rapidly than you might think.

    What some of you need to realise is that the cash shop IS coming. It may not have the XP buff or anything like that but it IS coming. The main point of the cash shop is to get the online Blizzard Store in the game for faster purchasing. You can fight them having the XP buff and so on all you like but it is pointless to fight them over having an in-game shop altogether.

    And no, none of it is P2W so far. Mounts are cosmetic and do not provide player power. They are not P2W.
    Ah, so what you are saying is that we should not take Blizzard's word at face value as they will go back on it when it suits them? Yes the world does change and most of the mmo world has gone F2P perhaps someone should tell Blizzard.

    I don't think I have seen anyone that is in denial that the cash is going to happen apart from the Blizzard supporters who were adamant that it was for Asia only until Blizzard said otherwise. I am not sure how much quicker an in game store will be than alt tabbing but I am sure someone will be able to tell me.

    The main point, that many are trying to make and being shouted down, is not whether it is P2W it is the fact that Blizzard already make an insane amount of profit out of us, so much that they can afford to develop D3, SC2, Hearthstone, shelve several years of Titan's development without worry and buy eight foot tall orc statues and in return we get Cata and then MOP that will have less raid tiers, raids that are not as good as Ulduar or Icc, less zones, smaller zones and less dungeons than Wrath.

    No one is against Blizzard making a profit but there comes a time when we are getting less than before and being asked to pay more that you have to say enough is enough!

  6. #746
    Quote Originally Posted by Drilnos View Post
    That's what's known as an assumption. If there were no cash shop, they might not have made any of the items at all, or if they did, never implemented them, because they couldn't figure out a way to make them a thematic fit for the content they were making.
    And how does putting an in-game cash shop justify the addition of those items? Why can't those three helmets just get added to a Darkmoon Faire vendor, or to Grifter or any other number of NPCs already in the game?

    Saying "We're not putting an item that gives your character Dragon wings into the game world, as we feel it dosn't fit the world's theme. Instead, we're going to charge you money for it, so that we don't break your immerison!" is such a cop-out. They're even adding an in-game method of buying these items, so that just prooves how wrong that line of thinking already is. Even if that in-game method is just talking to a goblin in a top hat next to a huge safe full of money, it's not going to suddenly make sense that a pair of firey horns don't fit the theme of the Siege of Orgrimar, a new PvP battleground or anything else already in game.

    If the money made from cash-shop items is only spent on making more cash-shop items, why would Blizzard even bother making them? They don't gain anything of value, other than possibly some extra PR or more players "addicted" to paying a subscription in order to play with items they've already paid for.

    Every item added to the cash-shop has been created using subscription money, since you can't yet pre-order cash-shop items. You can't just pay an artist to make those firey horns after they've sold x amount in order to pay his wages, not unless that artist has put an incredibly huge amount of good-will towards Blizzard on the "promise" that they'll pay them for work rendered.

    I'll say it again, if people are happy to buy an item, but can only play with that item by paying more money, more fool them. I've not brought anything out of the cash-shop and I never will untill i'm able to use that item whenever I want to.

  7. #747
    Quote Originally Posted by zaxlor View Post
    The better thing to do and I don't know why more/if any companies do it, is have a donation box.

    It wouldn't be tied to anything, wouldn't confer anything in return, wouldn't give any advantages and the only "physical" thing you'd receive is an e-mail saying thanks for supporting the company.

    That way, the people that really fucking love Blizzard can spend say £100 a month on them. They get to choose what their subscription is worth. I've got no idea how many people would use this kind of feature, but why not add something like this? Websites have "please donate here" paypal boxes, why can't Blizzard? Maybe it'd give some kind of weird signal, much like merging servers does, that all is not well.

    I still think someone actually wanting, really wanting to pay you more for a product because they tottally support it is better than cutting that product into parts and selling them off in different sized chunks and prices.
    Out here in the real world there's this thing called the postal system. You can write a check, put it in an envelope, write an address on it and bam. You've given money to whoever you want, for whatever reason you can think of.

    Why don't we ever hear this much bellyaching regarding the TCG, or the Collector's Editions? You're putting extra money down for items you can only access by paying a subscription there, too, but nobody ever bats an eye at it.

  8. #748
    if they are going to have a cash shop and earn alot of extra money they better be pumping out content like never before.

  9. #749
    Moderator MoanaLisa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Pacific Northwest, USA
    Posts
    10,421
    Re: The Pardo Quote

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    We chose to go with the subscription-based model instead of that approach. We've taken the approach that we want players to feel like it's a level playing field once they're in WoW. Outside resources don't play into it -- no gold buying, etc. We take a hard line stance against it. What you get out of microtransactions is kind of the same thing and I think our player base would feel betrayed by it. I think that's something else you have to decide on up-front instead of implementing later.
    And I think that with regards to power items this is still correct. I suspect that when Pardo said this he was talking very specifically about items of power.

    And a further quote to support this from the same Q/A session:
    When it was suggested micro-transactions might make it easier for casual gamers to maintain pace with more serious players, Pardo said, "They aren't going to be the ones spending the money."
    Make of that what you will but Blizzard has done nothing yet to make anyone assume they've changed their mind about this. It seems quite clear to me the context of the quote was speaking about microtransactions and keeping the playing field level with regard to power.
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2013-07-16 at 10:09 PM.
    If you have anything to contribute to a thread topic, please do so. Discussing moderation or calling out specific people is against the rules and makes a post liable for an infraction. Please report problem posts. If anyone is unclear about the rules please read our FAQ. Thanks.

    It's a magical world, Hobbes, ol' buddy...let's go exploring!

  10. #750
    The Lightbringer UnifiedDivide's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    3,358
    Quote Originally Posted by Pann View Post
    Ah, so what you are saying is that we should not take Blizzard's word at face value as they will go back on it when it suits them? Yes the world does change and most of the mmo world has gone F2P perhaps someone should tell Blizzard.

    I don't think I have seen anyone that is in denial that the cash is going to happen apart from the Blizzard supporters who were adamant that it was for Asia only until Blizzard said otherwise. I am not sure how much quicker an in game store will be than alt tabbing but I am sure someone will be able to tell me.

    The main point, that many are trying to make and being shouted down, is not whether it is P2W it is the fact that Blizzard already make an insane amount of profit out of us, so much that they can afford to develop D3, SC2, Hearthstone, shelve several years of Titan's development without worry and buy eight foot tall orc statues and in return we get Cata and then MOP that will have less raid tiers, raids that are not as good as Ulduar or Icc, less zones, smaller zones and less dungeons than Wrath.

    No one is against Blizzard making a profit but there comes a time when we are getting less than before and being asked to pay more that you have to say enough is enough!
    Forgive me if what I'm about to write make little sense, I'm very tired and you wrote a nice lengthy post

    Of course you should take their word. Though many don't believe a single word they say. My point was that yes, things do change and 5 years is a long time for a company. So while you should at least accept what they say, at face value, you also shouldn't be so surprised when changes are made.

    I know you're against it, quite vehemently, but it isn't only Blizzard supporters that are in denial. To say it is, is rather unfair.

    I'm not arguing what the main points are that people have. As I said, in a slightly later post, my problem is the people clutching at any straw, however small, to try make a point and attempting to convince others to effectively join their crusade.

    I agree that there is a lot of profit being made by Blizzard already. I don't think that every last penny from WoW is the only source of income they have to be able to develop other things. There are books, all kinds of collectibles, tournaments, advertising deals... alsorts!
    I will point out that MoP raiding has been fantastic for a great many people though. That is merely your opinion.

    Hopefully most of that makes sense. Anyway, I'd like to point out that while I'm not against the cash shop, at least while it's only cosmetic stuff, I can see exactly where people are coming from.
    Last edited by UnifiedDivide; 2013-07-16 at 10:10 PM.

    Rarely updated...

  11. #751
    To everyone complaining about their sub paying for w/e, remember that Blizzard hasn't changed the price of the sub fee for 10 years. If they did change it to be more in line with what a dollar is worth now compared to 2004, your sub fee would be $18.04.

    I guess we owe Blizzard, since there's been more content these last few months than in the last expansion.

    For $15 a month, we've been paying less and less for the game every year since its launch.
    #blizzisevilebecausetheyarepreventingmefromenjoyingtheirproductswithapricetag #blizzardisprovidinganadditionalservicethatpeopleaskedforandthepeoplewhodidntaskforitarepi ssedbecausetheywanteverythinghandedtothemlikeentitledassholes #whydoessubwaycharge5bucksforasandwichwhenicouldeatmyneighborsdogshitforfree #mcdonaldsmakesenoughmoneyishouldgettheirfoodforfree

  12. #752
    Quote Originally Posted by Drilnos View Post
    Out here in the real world there's this thing called the postal system. You can write a check, put it in an envelope, write an address on it and bam. You've given money to whoever you want, for whatever reason you can think of.

    Why don't we ever hear this much bellyaching regarding the TCG, or the Collector's Editions? You're putting extra money down for items you can only access by paying a subscription there, too, but nobody ever bats an eye at it.
    What's Blizzard's bank account number then? How'd I get in touch with donating to them? Where can I find the "donate here" button on the battle.net page? I could just put a 10 pound note in an envelope with the address "Blizzard HQ" on it, but that's stupid. If Blizzard are really that hard-up for cash and if the people defending the cash-shop are so desperate to be parted with their cash, why isn't there an incredibly easy and transparent means for those people to give Blizzard more money?

    The reasons that they're giving the money dosn't matter, but why not have a robust donation method available to players. It'd be totally annoymous and no-one would have any qualms over bad-mouthing other players about what size donation was given, as it'd be tottally private. Of course it'd show up on the quartly in-come documents, but then Blizzard and the players might get to see just how "loyal" their player base is.

    As for the TCG, I'm of the same mind. It's a nice bonus to the people playing the card game and possibly a way to get those only interested in playing the TCG to sub to WoW, but it was annoying that mounts like "El Polo Grande" and the Spectral Tiger couldn't be obtained in-game. Well, you could get them in-game, by giving a person with the code for those items in-game gold or items. It's not a legitimate means of doing this, but it is possible. You run the risk of being scammed on both sides, but it's do-able.

    It's also do-able to perform this by gifting cash-shop items to other players which i'm fine with. If someone wants to pay 100k in-game gold for a moonkin hatchling then so be it. But why can't this already be in the game anyways? Let's say a mount costs £15 and the subscription currently in the UK costs £9. In that case, make it so I've got to complete 6 weekly quests in order to get a currency to buy that mount. You'll have still earnt $18 out of me and i'll have actually been playing the game at the same time! Blizzard wouldn't have earnt £24 out of me, but they would have more easily assured a constant subscription from me which they seem to prefer, as GC dosn't like it when people "only sub for content patches".

  13. #753
    Quote Originally Posted by Roflifier View Post
    To everyone complaining about their sub paying for w/e, remember that Blizzard hasn't changed the price of the sub fee for 10 years. If they did change it to be more in line with what a dollar is worth now compared to 2004, your sub fee would be $18.04.

    I guess we owe Blizzard, since there's been more content these last few months than in the last expansion.
    That's not how these things work. Blizzard most certainly got their money back from the subs which they wouldn't have had if they did raise the sub price. The fact that Blizzard didn't raise sub prices with inflation wasn't out of kindness on their behalf. That's just crazy talk.

  14. #754
    Quote Originally Posted by madrox View Post
    That's not how these things work. Blizzard most certainly got their money back from the subs which they wouldn't have had if they did raise the sub price. The fact that Blizzard didn't raise sub prices with inflation wasn't out of kindness on their behalf. That's just crazy talk.
    That IS how these things work. Companies increase the prices of their products to match inflation all the time. McDonalds has certainly made its money back from their initial investment when they bought the company, the prices of their food still went up.

    If anyone wants to talk about what's "fair" with their sub fee, than anyone who's been subscribed since 2004 would owe Blizzard another $190 bucks.
    #blizzisevilebecausetheyarepreventingmefromenjoyingtheirproductswithapricetag #blizzardisprovidinganadditionalservicethatpeopleaskedforandthepeoplewhodidntaskforitarepi ssedbecausetheywanteverythinghandedtothemlikeentitledassholes #whydoessubwaycharge5bucksforasandwichwhenicouldeatmyneighborsdogshitforfree #mcdonaldsmakesenoughmoneyishouldgettheirfoodforfree

  15. #755
    Quote Originally Posted by zaxlor View Post
    Every item added to the cash-shop has been created using subscription money
    Absolutely false. Items added to the cash shop were created using Blizzard's money, which they get from diverse sources, including sales of Diablo III, Starcraft II, legacy games, WoW boxes, the sale of other cash shop items and, yes, subscription fees. They don't keep all their revenue streams in neat, tidy piles and allocate based on source. That is not how it works.

    Understand this. Once the money leaves your pocket and enters the seller's you have no say in how it is subsequently spent. None whatsoever. You are not employing or contracting these people, you are buying something from them, and what you are buying is the game snapshotted at the exact point in time that you give them the money. You aren't buying future versions of the game, and they are not obligated to spend the money on that. They choose to spend some money on that, because that keeps people giving them money.

  16. #756
    Mechagnome Morbownz's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Cheshire, UK
    Posts
    651
    Quote Originally Posted by Roflifier View Post
    I guess we owe Blizzard,
    Hahaha, people like this are the reason I try my hardest to resist getting into debates on MMO-Champion.
    Lets all go to the Blizz-store, Lets all go to the Blizz-store, Lets all go to the Blizz-store to buy ourselves some treats. Delicious things for geeks, the Pixels can't be beat. The Achievement points are just dandy, them sparkling mounts are quite handy. So Lets all go to the Blizz-store and buy ourselves a treat.

  17. #757
    Quote Originally Posted by Drilnos View Post
    That's what's known as an assumption. If there were no cash shop, they might not have made any of the items at all, or if they did, never implemented them, because they couldn't figure out a way to make them a thematic fit for the content they were making.
    Challenge mode rewards. There, problem solved. No cash shop needed! Or even the Barrens reward armor, too!

  18. #758
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    Forgive me if what I'm about to write make little sense, I'm very tired and you wrote a nice lengthy post

    Of course you should take their word. Though many don't believe a single word they say. My point was that yes, things do change and 5 years is a long time for a company. So while you should at least accept what they say, at face value, you also shouldn't be so surprised when changes are made.

    I know you're against it, quite vehemently, but it isn't only Blizzard supporters that are in denial. To say it is, is rather unfair.

    I'm not arguing what the main points are that people have. As I said, in a slightly later post, my problem is the people clutching at any straw, however small, to try make a point and attempting to convince others to effectively join their crusade.

    I agree that there is a lot of profit being made by Blizzard already. I don't think that every last penny from WoW is the only source of income they have to be able to develop other things. There are books, all kinds of collectibles, tournaments, advertising deals... alsorts!
    I will point out that MoP raiding has been fantastic for a great many people though. That is merely your opinion.

    Hopefully most of that makes sense. Anyway, I'd like to point out that while I'm not against the cash shop, at least while it's only cosmetic stuff, I can see exactly where people are coming from.
    The price of the expansions have gone up to battle inflation. Its not like sub is the only way for Blizzard to make money. So plz stop with the inflation talk. Thats bull cause everyone with half a brain can go see BLizzard is making good money out of the subs. Much more so than they actually need to keep WOW afloat for 10 years +

  19. #759
    Quote Originally Posted by Morbownz View Post
    Hahaha, people like this are the reason I try my hardest to resist getting into debates on MMO-Champion.
    Why? Because you can't think coherently enough to provide anything constructive to the post? (I was being sarcastic by the way, I was addressing the moronic whiners complaining about what's considered "fair" and "not fair" with what Blizzard does with their money).

    OT: Blizzard ALSO hasn't ever increased the prices of their expansions, and has in fact, DECREASED them, so... yea. The video game industry as a whole has increased the prices of their games to $60 (which is still nothing near to what $50 was back in 2004).
    #blizzisevilebecausetheyarepreventingmefromenjoyingtheirproductswithapricetag #blizzardisprovidinganadditionalservicethatpeopleaskedforandthepeoplewhodidntaskforitarepi ssedbecausetheywanteverythinghandedtothemlikeentitledassholes #whydoessubwaycharge5bucksforasandwichwhenicouldeatmyneighborsdogshitforfree #mcdonaldsmakesenoughmoneyishouldgettheirfoodforfree

  20. #760
    Quote Originally Posted by Roflifier View Post
    That IS how these things work. Companies increase the prices of their products to match inflation all the time. McDonalds has certainly made its money back from their initial investment when they bought the company, the prices of their food still went up.

    If anyone wants to talk about what's "fair" with their sub fee, than anyone who's been subscribed since 2004 would owe Blizzard another $190 bucks.
    Off topic, but McDonalds makes most of their money off soft drinks. They get a huge barrel of syrup that makes a whole crap ton of soft drinks for like $20 and some water, and it is like instant profits right there. Do you really think they give you free refills out of the kindness of their hearts? It would take you A LOT of soft drinks to be able to make them not able to make any profits off it anymore.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •