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  1. #981
    Quote Originally Posted by Darklordvyperx View Post
    People will always find something to complain and whine about. If people want to shell out a certain amount of cash for a certain item that Blizzard sells in the Item Store online, then by all means, that's their decision. Crying about their decision is just being childish, and is proving where a lot of WOW's player base is in regards to mental development. People are allowed to spend their money in whatever way they see fit, and Blizzard is allowed to charge however much they want for their services. I'm willing to bet that Blizzard could raise the subscription fee to $25 a month, and people would still pay for it. WOW is THE most successful MMORPG in history, and millions of people around the world would still pay to play it if the subscription fee was raised. So quit crying about people spending their OWN money on pets, mounts, or cosmetic items, and quit crying about Blizzard implementing them in the Store. Your voices don't mean anything when it comes to business. It's just crying in the corner, banging your hands on the floor because you can't have something you want.

    I don't think most people here are arguing against their capability to spend their money on whatever they want, rather pointing out that their doing so will even further such tendencies from Blizzard and eventually hurt the game substantially by making the same people pay even more for the content that should be "baseline". And let's not forget that very often paying for something results in regret much much later than the transaction occurred. I bet you my arm that most people did not even think this through, they were just bewildered by the possibility to get these items NOW, without having to do any grind or nothing. In short: they were the victims of marketing.

    If you take all the people who spent their OWN money on these helms, you get a lot of people who have hurt the game and its future, further fueling Blizzard's intention of continuing with such malpractices.

  2. #982
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    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    Go burn WoW mice, keyboards and T shirts too because Blizzard makes MONEY by selling them too. just like my new fluff helmet, which absolutely has NO added value other than ...for me.
    WTF

    The Wow mouse is made by Steelseries. It is Steelseries who pay all of the development costs for making this mouse. All Blizzard does is agrees to have the Wow logo on the mouse. They both then split the profits.

    i could use the same explanation for all the other MERCHANDISE that u listed.

    Basically speaking these 3 helms were created by the Wow dev team, a dev team which is being paid by everyone who pays a subscription to Wow. Everything u listed is not created by the Wow dev team, and that means theyre not being paid by the subscribers.

    Benbos, we all know ur extremely good at not understanding anything on these forums but this mistake is just hilarious.

  3. #983
    Dreadlord Outofmana's Avatar
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    I had a tank today with the helmet, I let him die and refused to heal him. The 15mins of him raging that followed were amazing. In the end I votekicked him using my own name (party turned against me, fml) as the reason and they insta booted the tank not noticing it was me kicking him.. I'm actually starting to like the item-shop now, you can have so much fun with it ingame .

  4. #984
    Quote Originally Posted by Potentio View Post
    I don't think most people here are arguing against their capability to spend their money on whatever they want, rather pointing out that their doing so will even further such tendencies from Blizzard and eventually hurt the game substantially by making the same people pay even more for the content that should be "baseline". And let's not forget that very often paying for something results in regret much much later than the transaction occurred. I bet you my arm that most people did not even think this through, they were just bewildered by the possibility to get these items NOW, without having to do any grind or nothing. In short: they were the victims of marketing.

    If you take all the people who spent their OWN money on these helms, you get a lot of people who have hurt the game and its future, further fueling Blizzard's intention of continuing with such malpractices.

    Let's face it. If Blizzard simply put these items into the game, without charging for them, acquiring them would involve months of monotonous daily quest grinding, which people would then whine about. As long as the store items are only cosmetic, then as far as I'm concerned, it doesn't affect game-play, and therefore should not be frowned upon. Saying that the store items affect the game and it's future has no basis in fact and is simply an opinion. There is no "malpractice" involved by the way. Saying so is implying that Blizzard is doing something illegal. Which they aren't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Outofmana View Post
    I had a tank today with the helmet, I let him die and refused to heal him. The 15mins of him raging that followed were amazing. In the end I votekicked him using my own name (party turned against me, fml) as the reason and they insta booted the tank not noticing it was me kicking him.. I'm actually starting to like the item-shop now, you can have so much fun with it ingame .
    That's very childish of you. Very pathetic too.

  5. #985
    Quote Originally Posted by Outofmana View Post
    I had a tank today with the helmet, I let him die and refused to heal him. The 15mins of him raging that followed were amazing. In the end I votekicked him using my own name (party turned against me, fml) as the reason and they insta booted the tank not noticing it was me kicking him.. I'm actually starting to like the item-shop now, you can have so much fun with it ingame .
    Well aren't you a special little snowflake? Have a cookie for being so big and smart!

  6. #986
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    Obviously not gonna read 50 pages, but

    what you need to realise is that I'm a consumer and I vote with my wallet. I'm not buying any $15 hats because that's fucking retarded
    Quote Originally Posted by Helden View Post
    Tumblrists gonna Tumble.
    Someone got there [sic] shit seriously triggered.

  7. #987
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outofmana View Post
    I had a tank today with the helmet, I let him die and refused to heal him. The 15mins of him raging that followed were amazing. In the end I votekicked him using my own name (party turned against me, fml) as the reason and they insta booted the tank not noticing it was me kicking him.. I'm actually starting to like the item-shop now, you can have so much fun with it ingame .

    That's a great Idea.

  8. #988
    Quote Originally Posted by Potentio View Post
    To think of all those immersive and challenging things they could have added into the game that rewarded all those cash shop items. Would have been good for the game.
    Yes, and people would complain because said "immersive and challenging things" would actually be challenging. Not everyone would get it because of the challenge needed to access it, and people wouldn't be happy about that. It seems to me that Blizzard can't win in these types of situations. They release something to make themselves more money (smart business move, IMO), but people don't like it because of how they implement it.

    So you would be perfectly happy to defend your supporting of that view and from now on pay your subscription fee just for logging in the game + 2€ for every quest, 1€ for every hairstyle change, 4€ for every epic that drops (even better would be the outbidding system on bosses, where you submit real amounts of cash for the items!)?
    What does this have to do with what they're doing with the vanity helmets? Blizzard isn't ever going to charge you money per quest, per hairstyle, or per epic drop. While I suppose I can't guarantee that, I highly doubt it would ever happen.

    I also find it funny that the people who used to complain about game difficulty and loot accessibility now support another version of "snowflakeness". Only now you need to have money to feel special. It used to demand skill and time. Let the casuals take over!
    Blizzard used to be a company of gamers creating games, for gamers. It's no longer that, and they're adapting with the way gaming in general is going. It's a much more widely acceptable thing to be a "nerd" and play games, meaning many, MANY more "casual" players coming into the gaming world. The gaming world is no longer filled with strictly hardcore, super gamers. It's a mix of everyone, and that needs to be something they take into account. If the game stayed the same as it was in vanilla, Blizzard, almost certainly, wouldn't be the game it is today. Sure, there would still be some super hardcore people playing, but I highly doubt it would've reached it's 12? million subs in WotLK.

    Back on topic. The monthly fee you pay is simply for access to your game account. You don't own any part of it. Not your character, your epic gear, the extra little things you might've paid money for previously. You own the discs (if you bought them), otherwise you don't really own anything about your WoW account. If you would like proof, I would like to point you to Blizzards terms of use, section 5. Absolutely no where in there (or the EULA) does it say anything about "if you pay a subscription, we will give you access to everything in the blizzard store not including other games". It does not guarantee you ANYTHING. You aren't even guaranteed to be able to play, even when paying (see almost every Tuesday). So why would you have access to vanity items simply because you pay a monthly fee? Because you feel that's your "right"? It's not, and Blizzard pretty clearly says that when you agree to making an account. You simply have access to an account you created for the sole ability to play the game, nothing more, nothing less. As was said by ACES.

    I'm neither for, or against the store. I personally don't purchase anything from it, but I won't chastise someone else because they do.

  9. #989
    idle time leads to results such as this
    Last edited by coldrain; 2013-07-22 at 06:01 AM.

  10. #990
    Quote Originally Posted by Jalen View Post
    snip

    I'm not delving into discussing semantics or whatnot with you. We are just so remarkably in disagreement about what's best for the game that this is bound to bear no fruit. But I will however say that this Terms of Use you refer to does not guarantee you will not be charged on a per-quest or per-item basis in the future. They can even change it whenever they wish. Unlikely, you say? Well the situation we are at, seemed to me extremely unlikely 8 years ago as well.

    Also, by your logic, with WoW becoming increasingly casual, the peak subscription numbers should have increased past the 12 million mark by now. What's happening???
    Last edited by Potentio; 2013-07-22 at 12:27 AM.

  11. #991
    Quote Originally Posted by WarpKnight View Post
    Obviously not gonna read 50 pages, but

    what you need to realise is that I'm a consumer and I vote with my wallet. I'm not buying any $15 hats because that's fucking retarded
    Cant agree more whit this.

  12. #992
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potentio View Post
    I'm not delving into discussing semantics or whatnot with you. We are just so remarkably in disagreement about what's best for the game that this is bound to bear no fruit. But I will however say that this Terms of Use you refer to does not guarantee you will not be charged on a per-quest or per-item basis in the future. They can even change it whenever they wish. Unlikely, you say? Well the situation we are at, seemed to me extremely unlikely 8 years ago as well.

    Also, by your logic, with WoW becoming increasingly casual, the peak subscription numbers should have increased past the 12 million mark by now. What's happening???
    First, you're engaging in the "slippery slope" logical fallacy. You're saying that Blizz will do X in the future because they are doing Y now without actually proving that to be true. If the Pet Store is the cancer that is killing WoW and it's going down the tubes or whatever, jump off the sinking ship now and stop giving Blizz your money. You certainly don't owe it to them.

    Secondly, there are a multitude of factors as to WoW's drop in subscriptions. One obvious reason is that the subscription-based MMO market in general has all but evaporated with WoW being the last great hold-out (a tribute to just how good the game still is). There's also the fact that people tend to just get bored of things after a while and nothing remains interesting forever. It's why tv shows eventually lose ratings and go off the air or hot songs on the radio eventually go out of circulation. It runs it's course and people lose interest. WoW is not exempt from that. The fact that it still has as many subs as it does after like 9 fucking years is another tribute to how good it is. But to point to any one thing and say "this is why WoW now sucks" is narrow-minded and silly.

    TL;DR: If you don't like the Pet Store, don't buy from it. If you don't like Blizz' business decisions, stop playing or suck it up. Blizz owes you nothing.

  13. #993
    Quote Originally Posted by ACES View Post
    Every time Blizzard announces something new for the pet store we see the same threads come up about how a game with a monthly sub fee shouldn't have a microtransaction store. I get really frustrated when I see these posts because some people just don't get it.

    You pay a monthly fee to be able to log in to your account and play; nothing more, nothing less.

    Blizzard is a business and they have to do with that money whatever they feel will be most profitable. This can be anything from developing PvE and PvP content to developing items for the Blizzard store. The purpose of the former is to keep people subscribed to WoW and maybe even bring old people back/new people in. The latter is designed to bring in additional revenue to be able to develop more content.

    The most important thing to realize is that Blizzard will NEVER make Tier Sets or any current content gear available for cash; they are not stupid enough to do that and you can mark my words that it'll never happen.

    The Blizzard store is not a slippery slope, it is a smart business move to bring in more money for the company. The more resources Blizzard has, the more content they can develop and the better off we are as players.
    Wow, this post is dead on, and I feel like I've been the only one saying the same thing, and have been getting shouted down by people who feel threatened by Blizzard selling hats.

    Just did a blog on it: http://killadrixexplainsthings.wordp...ust-chill-out/

  14. #994
    Quote Originally Posted by Bellatryxx View Post
    First, you're engaging in the "slippery slope" logical fallacy. You're saying that Blizz will do X in the future because they are doing Y now without actually proving that to be true. If the Pet Store is the cancer that is killing WoW and it's going down the tubes or whatever, jump off the sinking ship now and stop giving Blizz your money. You certainly don't owe it to them.

    Secondly, there are a multitude of factors as to WoW's drop in subscriptions. One obvious reason is that the subscription-based MMO market in general has all but evaporated with WoW being the last great hold-out (a tribute to just how good the game still is). There's also the fact that people tend to just get bored of things after a while and nothing remains interesting forever. It's why tv shows eventually lose ratings and go off the air or hot songs on the radio eventually go out of circulation. It runs it's course and people lose interest. WoW is not exempt from that. The fact that it still has as many subs as it does after like 9 fucking years is another tribute to how good it is. But to point to any one thing and say "this is why WoW now sucks" is narrow-minded and silly.

    TL;DR: If you don't like the Pet Store, don't buy from it. If you don't like Blizz' business decisions, stop playing or suck it up. Blizz owes you nothing.
    You responded more eloquently than I think I would've been able, and said almost exactly what I think about the situation.

    Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. If you don't like something about the game, that's fine with me. I'm not here to persuade people to think one way or the other. I just don't understand why people are considered bad, or getting kicked from dungeons/raids, simply because they're purchasing something cosmetic and playing the game how they like, and want to. Which, I thought, was the goal to all games. Enjoying them and playing how you want.

  15. #995
    Quote Originally Posted by Lomak View Post
    You pay an initial fee.
    You pay a subscription fee.
    You are still locked out of content within the game.

    All facts.

    It's an insult to peoples intelligence to try and spin that any other way, and it's disingenuous to give the excuse "oh they are only cosmetic".......

    99% of the things in the game are cosmetic. From the way my character looks, the way he attacks, casting animation, the way gear looks. "It's only cosmetic" is a piss poor excuse for a disgusting business practice that is only succeeding because of the gullibility of the majority of blizzards "fanbase".
    So answer me this: Your initial fee, and subscription fee doesn't allow you access to many other in-game rewards, items or achievements. So why is this different? Because I work for a living, am I "locked out" of server or world firsts? Am I locked out of Heroic Progression raiding? Am I locked out of Gladiator titles because I am not good enough? Arena Master?

    Your initial fee and sub fee guarantee YOU NOTHING BUT ACCESS TO THE SERVERS.

  16. #996
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killadrix View Post
    So answer me this: Your initial fee, and subscription fee doesn't allow you access to many other in-game rewards, items or achievements. So why is this different? Because I work for a living, am I "locked out" of server or world firsts? Am I locked out of Heroic Progression raiding? Am I locked out of Gladiator titles because I am not good enough? Arena Master?

    Your initial fee and sub fee guarantee YOU NOTHING BUT ACCESS TO THE SERVERS.
    What ur forgetting (and everyone defending the Cash-shop) is that items have been datamined which show Blizzards longterm objective with the cash-shop.

    The Elixir which gives 100% EXP boost was important enough for Blizzard to come out and explain why it is there. That item was intended for the cash-shop.

  17. #997
    Supply and demand. That is exactly why Blizzard has an online store. Enough people want the special things, and are willing to pay extra money for them, to warrant Blizzard selling them. If I were a business owner, and found out customers wanted something I could charge a little extra for, why would I not?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    What ur forgetting (and everyone defending the Cash-shop) is that items have been datamined which show Blizzards longterm objective with the cash-shop.

    The Elixir which gives 100% EXP boost was important enough for Blizzard to come out and explain why it is there. That item was intended for the cash-shop.
    What bonus does that elixir actually have? It wouldn't work after a certain level, similar to heirlooms i'm sure (and the already in game 300% xp flask), and therefore, wouldn't benefit anyone more or less than the already existing experience increasing items AND RaF. Leveling is already ridiculously fast and easy (coming from someone with multiple 90s), and these elixirs will give little more to the already easy leveling experience. If I'm new to the game, and buy one, it's basically buffed heirloom gear, that costs real money. If I buy one now, on top of full heirloom gear, it's going to shave maybe a day off leveling with no effect after a certain level. Blizzard is doing nothing wrong with trying to find more things to bring players in. Microtransactions happen to be working, obviously, so why should they stop?

    None of the Blizzard store items have affected anyone not purchasing them in any way except their entitlement. That's all there is to it.

  18. #998
    Quote Originally Posted by Jalen View Post
    Supply and demand. That is exactly why Blizzard has an online store. Enough people want the special things, and are willing to pay extra money for them, to warrant Blizzard selling them. If I were a business owner, and found out customers wanted something I could charge a little extra for, why would I not?

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    What bonus does that elixir actually have? It wouldn't work after a certain level, similar to heirlooms i'm sure (and the already in game 300% xp flask), and therefore, wouldn't benefit anyone more or less than the already existing experience increasing items AND RaF. Leveling is already ridiculously fast and easy (coming from someone with multiple 90s), and these elixirs will give little more to the already easy leveling experience. If I'm new to the game, and buy one, it's basically buffed heirloom gear, that costs real money. If I buy one now, on top of full heirloom gear, it's going to shave maybe a day off leveling with no effect after a certain level. Blizzard is doing nothing wrong with trying to find more things to bring players in. Microtransactions happen to be working, obviously, so why should they stop?

    None of the Blizzard store items have affected anyone not purchasing them in any way except their entitlement. That's all there is to it.
    Will you apply to the inapplicability of induction once more if I say that when Cash Shop was introduced, NOONE believed me when I said they would be selling good-looking gear and fun on-use trinkets which the other items upcoming to the cash shop pretty much are. People said something along the lines of "nah, thats too much" or "how do you even know that? That would kill the game"

    The thing is, your persistence in defending them no matter what is what hurts the game more than the rambling on of people on forums who have quit. This over-rationalising must be making yourself appreciate the game more - as if critical thinking did not mean caring for it! Or another reason might be that you did not play this game in its prime state and are living in delusion. Reality reproduces itself with people like you, who accept common practices like they were the only feasible system. Overrationalizing about capitalistic profit tendencies and at that referring to "free will" in "people can do what they want" and whatnot just sets the current societal structure in place even more. Moreover, it illuminates it. This is extremely one-dimensional thinking. And I can guarantee you that you shall not yourself understand it for long time to come.


    The bottom line is, those items that you can currently only purchase from the cash shop would have provided extremely satisfying rewards for content, perhaps similar to the legendary quests for the meta gem and cloak or warlock green fire perhaps. And no, to the one who said they would be achievable by dailies: more like challenge mode competition periods or personal character development in the form of the equivalent for Path of the Titans. It destroys potential quality content, leaving only the rewards. IT FRACTURES THE GAME and because it works en masse on people, it more likely means that they will step by step have a larger and larger part of the development team creating Cash Shop content only. Who knows, perhaps one day we will have Premium Accounts, where paying 75€ each month gets you all upcoming cash content by default. And your problem is you don't see potential (and in whatever non-conformistic sense, better!) alternatives and cling to current accepted practices and social norms by default.
    Last edited by Potentio; 2013-07-22 at 06:04 AM.

  19. #999
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syran View Post
    Well it certainly is your right to do whatever you want with your money, and you seem especially eager to throw it into Blizzard's direction, but calling other people communists because of their skepticism towards a multimillion dollar company, out for maximizing profits? You seem a bit deluded.
    Labelling you lot as communists might be a bridge too far, but you've definitely exhibited enough antagonism to merit the label of anti-capitalist. Oh, you naive little ones, who still think there's a better way to run the world than money, a way that hasn't been tried and failed before, a way that would actually work. Capitalism brings with it the maximum of convenience, leisure and general enrichment of one's life. Anti-capitalism breeds misery, poverty and your place in the queue to receive your rations.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    There's nothing wrong with Keynesian theory.

  20. #1000
    Quote Originally Posted by Inahu View Post
    Labelling you lot as communists might be a bridge too far, but you've definitely exhibited enough antagonism to merit the label of anti-capitalist. Oh, you naive little ones, who still think there's a better way to run the world than money, a way that hasn't been tried and failed before, a way that would actually work. Capitalism brings with it the maximum of convenience, leisure and general enrichment of one's life. Anti-capitalism breeds misery, poverty and your place in the queue to receive your rations.
    That's a terribly terribly capitalist view right there. Fruitlessness of setting yourself out of the prevalent system I see? You should read a bit too. Capitalism is pretty much the source for the majority of Earth's and humanity's problems. It had its time in the evolution of mankind, but it's time to move on. Has been for a long time now.

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