Page 36 of 50 FirstFirst ...
26
34
35
36
37
38
46
... LastLast
  1. #701
    Quote Originally Posted by madrox View Post
    I'd love to know how long these people who spout "You pay a monthly fee to be able to log in to your account and play; nothing more, nothing less. " would hang about happily paying their sub if Blizzard stopped producing content patches just to access those servers "nothing more, nothing less". Blizzard may say this to cover their asses in event of periods of slow content production, but see how long the truth of it stands if it's ever tested. Subscription does bring certain expectations whether you want to admit to them or not. Yeah, I'm just going to pay £9 per month to access a server.
    The funniest thing is Blizzard never said that, it's like people are happy to willingly advocate Blizzard on matters that don't even exist, it's a company's dream to have a fanbase like this.

  2. #702
    Quote Originally Posted by Syran View Post
    Their priorities have shifted from traditional 5 mans and raids format. I doubt we'll ever see the good amount of 5 mans again, like TBC-era heroics, which is a great shame and a deal breaker for many.

    In order to support all their new ideas in form of scenarios, brawler's, challenge modes, proving grounds, pet battles and everything else they had to cut somewhere, too bad it was 5 mans and not shit like dailies.
    Ugh, god I know. I feel like 5 mans are much more iconic to WoW than dailies.

  3. #703
    Quote Originally Posted by Asmodias View Post
    What you say is true... for the most part. Though, we can't say for certain that actual gear won't appear in this Cash shop...

    There is a worry there. The cash shop is the foot in the door for Blizzard to sell all manner of items. Just because they aren't selling gear now, doesn't mean that they won't in the future. I think we can all agree that we hope they don't go that route... but one never knows.

    There are a couple ways this could go, Blizzard migrates from a sub to a microtransaction F2P model. Blizzard keeps only cosmetic items in the cash shop (IE... No gear that has any actual, useful stats on it) and retains the sub. Blizzard changes WoW to include "Pay to Win" and keeps the sub.

    Personally, I have no reason to fearful of the cash shop... We just have to see how it plays out.
    This is exactly the point that needs to be kept alive. The in game cash shop with micro transaction IS the line. If Blizzard crosses that line they have total and utter freedom to do whatever they want with it. Cause it opens up a resource in the game that is DIRECTLY connected to real money. It will change the game for good and there is no turning back. It doesn't matter if it starts with 1 pet and 1 mount and 1 helmet. There WILL then be way to buy power for real money directly in the game. Thats NOT acceptable in a sub based game.

    If Blizzard decides to add in game cash shop and expect to hold subscribers... I will have zero problem to never look back at WOW. I will NOT pay for expansions and then subscription to then be greeted with in game cash shop. No matter what is in that shop. Why should I bother if I know I will be greeted with same sort of cash shop in a F2P game where I dont pay sub.

    Blizzard can adopt to some sort of hybrid model as other games are doing. But they can NOT add ingame cash shop and expect subscribers to find that acceptable. Thats where ppl need to put down their foot cause its the last line of defence. Players will be totally powerless to then combat 1 new item that crosses into the grey area 1 month or 1 year later. And we know that item is coming. It WILL be in the Asian cash shop from start and is called 100% extra XP boost. If the game is really so boring that it needs XP boost then SUBSCRIBERS should have a choise to buy that XP boost potion for 1 gold In a NPC shop.

    The choice is 100% clear. Subscription or Cash shop. Blizzard can not have both and expect subscribers to buy power on top of their subs. Thats just disgrace.
    Last edited by Duster505; 2013-07-16 at 09:25 PM.

  4. #704
    A brief and incomplete list of things your subscription money gets spent on.

    World of Warcraft
    Diablo III
    Starcraft II
    Hearthstone
    Titan
    Blizzcon
    Advertising
    Electricity
    Diet Mountain Dew
    Christmas Bonuses
    Statues of Orcs

    And way, way down at the bottom of the list we come to:

    the Cash Shop.

  5. #705
    Just like the other games that are/were on subscriptions...the purpose for a sub is money for support, servers, and future content. They even said on the old site it was for future content. So we are supposed to believe now the sub goes exclusively to being able to log in?

  6. #706
    Quote Originally Posted by bigmac View Post
    Just like the other games that are/were on subscriptions...the purpose for a sub is money for support, servers, and future content. They even said on the old site it was for future content. So we are supposed to believe now the sub goes exclusively to being able to log in?
    Even if thats the case... IF they add cash shop they should do exactly the same as ALL other F2P games that have ingame cash shop. You let the items in the game pay for the service for the players to USE that item in the game at ANY time they want to use it. Its not complicated. And its the reason there has always been clear line between subscription based games and cash shop games. There has NEVER ever been a subscription based game with in game cash shop. Never. And there never will be as long as I have any say on it.

  7. #707
    Quote Originally Posted by Drilnos View Post
    A brief and incomplete list of things your subscription money gets spent on.

    World of Warcraft
    Diablo III
    Starcraft II
    Hearthstone
    Titan
    Blizzcon
    Advertising
    Electricity
    Diet Mountain Dew
    Christmas Bonuses
    Statues of Orcs

    And way, way down at the bottom of the list we come to:

    the Cash Shop.
    Every item put in the cash shop, which is already behind a pay-wall, is one less item that gets added in game.

    I don't really like the look of those helmets, but the skeleton horse looks kind of cool. I'm not paying £9 just to be allowed to use the item i've paid £15 for. I wouldn't mind so much if you could buy any/all cash-shop items with an in-game currency, but telling people they can't use an item they've purchased unless they pay to access it, is a bit too much.

    If Blizzard wants to sell stuff in a cash-shop, make WoW free to play. I can't think of any other game, besides maybe multiplayer titles on the 360 that makes you pay for a product, then pay for it again monthly to access. Even in the case of the 360 games such as COD, Battlefield, Halo etc. you can still play the single player portion.

    Even games that are entirely multiplayer focused like Tribes or Planetside 2 are free to play. They don't double-dip and they don't come up with excuses like "we can't make raids AND dungeons, it's got to be raids OR dungeons because we don't have enough money..." like Blizzard does.

  8. #708
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    I can't believe someone is actually using this 5 year old quote to make an argument for what should happen, or not, today. The world changes, my friend. More rapidly than you might think.

    What some of you need to realise is that the cash shop IS coming. It may not have the XP buff or anything like that but it IS coming. The main point of the cash shop is to get the online Blizzard Store in the game for faster purchasing. You can fight them having the XP buff and so on all you like but it is pointless to fight them over having an in-game shop altogether.

    And no, none of it is P2W so far. Mounts are cosmetic and do not provide player power. They are not P2W.
    5 year old quote or 5 day old does not matter. The game has always been built on the same principle. If BLizzard is adding a cash shop then fine. But then they also need to admit the world HAS changed and you can not have both sub and Cash shop and still say its the same game. Cause it is not.

    As long as there IS cash shop coming we know that there IS coming the ability to buy power. That is just a given fact. Your logic of Blizzard saying something now about it will no longer hold water in 5 years time..... right ?

    It doesn't matter what is in that cash shop. Players can now take a clear stand and say no thank you by unsubing from the game and show that its not acceptable to act like nothing changes when you add ingame currency directly connected to real life money. And then expect ppl to also pay full sub and buy the expansion on top of that.

  9. #709
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by zaxlor View Post
    Every item put in the cash shop, which is already behind a pay-wall, is one less item that gets added in game.

    I don't really like the look of those helmets, but the skeleton horse looks kind of cool. I'm not paying £9 just to be allowed to use the item i've paid £15 for. I wouldn't mind so much if you could buy any/all cash-shop items with an in-game currency, but telling people they can't use an item they've purchased unless they pay to access it, is a bit too much.

    If Blizzard wants to sell stuff in a cash-shop, make WoW free to play. I can't think of any other game, besides maybe multiplayer titles on the 360 that makes you pay for a product, then pay for it again monthly to access. Even in the case of the 360 games such as COD, Battlefield, Halo etc. you can still play the single player portion.

    Even games that are entirely multiplayer focused like Tribes or Planetside 2 are free to play. They don't double-dip and they don't come up with excuses like "we can't make raids AND dungeons, it's got to be raids OR dungeons because we don't have enough money..." like Blizzard does.
    This is the real crux of the matter for me. I don't mind a well developed and implemented cash shop and have spent the equivalent of a couple weeks wages on stores like Rift's and TSW's, but a cash shop not only has to developed with items which complement the game rather than detract too much from it and have a solid business model behind it. If blizzard want to lock cosmetic and "convenience" items behind a cash shop paywall so be it, but I won't be hanging around if they expect me to enjoy those items through two paywalls.

  10. #710
    Quote Originally Posted by madrox View Post
    This is the real crux of the matter for me. I don't mind a well developed and implemented cash shop and have spent the equivalent of a couple weeks wages on stores like Rift's and TSW's, but a cash shop not only has to developed with items which complement the game rather than detract too much from it and have a solid business model behind it. If blizzard want to lock cosmetic and "convenience" items behind a cash shop paywall so be it, but I won't be hanging around if they expect me to enjoy those items through two paywalls.
    So true !!! In game cash shop is not acceptable in a sub based game. And thats final for me.

  11. #711
    Quote Originally Posted by ACES View Post
    Every time Blizzard announces something new for the pet store we see the same threads come up about how a game with a monthly sub fee shouldn't have a microtransaction store. I get really frustrated when I see these posts because some people just don't get it.

    You pay a monthly fee to be able to log in to your account and play; nothing more, nothing less.
    WIth all due respect, I'll determine the value of my $15 a month - thank you.

    My value is based on this:

    4 months of WoW = $60
    1 entirely brand new game = $60
    2-3 used games = $60

    Do you spend your 4 months with $60 worth of brand-new never-before-seen content equal to that of any brand--new game like, say, Skyrim?

  12. #712
    Quote Originally Posted by zaxlor View Post
    Every item put in the cash shop, which is already behind a pay-wall, is one less item that gets added in game.

    I don't really like the look of those helmets, but the skeleton horse looks kind of cool. I'm not paying £9 just to be allowed to use the item i've paid £15 for. I wouldn't mind so much if you could buy any/all cash-shop items with an in-game currency, but telling people they can't use an item they've purchased unless they pay to access it, is a bit too much.

    If Blizzard wants to sell stuff in a cash-shop, make WoW free to play. I can't think of any other game, besides maybe multiplayer titles on the 360 that makes you pay for a product, then pay for it again monthly to access. Even in the case of the 360 games such as COD, Battlefield, Halo etc. you can still play the single player portion.

    Even games that are entirely multiplayer focused like Tribes or Planetside 2 are free to play. They don't double-dip and they don't come up with excuses like "we can't make raids AND dungeons, it's got to be raids OR dungeons because we don't have enough money..." like Blizzard does.
    That's what's known as an assumption. If there were no cash shop, they might not have made any of the items at all, or if they did, never implemented them, because they couldn't figure out a way to make them a thematic fit for the content they were making.

  13. #713
    Quote Originally Posted by madrox View Post
    This is the real crux of the matter for me. I don't mind a well developed and implemented cash shop and have spent the equivalent of a couple weeks wages on stores like Rift's and TSW's, but a cash shop not only has to developed with items which complement the game rather than detract too much from it and have a solid business model behind it. If blizzard want to lock cosmetic and "convenience" items behind a cash shop paywall so be it, but I won't be hanging around if they expect me to enjoy those items through two paywalls.
    The better thing to do and I don't know why more/if any companies do it, is have a donation box.

    It wouldn't be tied to anything, wouldn't confer anything in return, wouldn't give any advantages and the only "physical" thing you'd receive is an e-mail saying thanks for supporting the company.

    That way, the people that really fucking love Blizzard can spend say £100 a month on them. They get to choose what their subscription is worth. I've got no idea how many people would use this kind of feature, but why not add something like this? Websites have "please donate here" paypal boxes, why can't Blizzard? Maybe it'd give some kind of weird signal, much like merging servers does, that all is not well.

    I still think someone actually wanting, really wanting to pay you more for a product because they tottally support it is better than cutting that product into parts and selling them off in different sized chunks and prices.

  14. #714
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    I can't believe someone is actually using this 5 year old quote to make an argument for what should happen, or not, today. The world changes, my friend. More rapidly than you might think.

    What some of you need to realise is that the cash shop IS coming. It may not have the XP buff or anything like that but it IS coming. The main point of the cash shop is to get the online Blizzard Store in the game for faster purchasing. You can fight them having the XP buff and so on all you like but it is pointless to fight them over having an in-game shop altogether.

    And no, none of it is P2W so far. Mounts are cosmetic and do not provide player power. They are not P2W.
    Ah, so what you are saying is that we should not take Blizzard's word at face value as they will go back on it when it suits them? Yes the world does change and most of the mmo world has gone F2P perhaps someone should tell Blizzard.

    I don't think I have seen anyone that is in denial that the cash is going to happen apart from the Blizzard supporters who were adamant that it was for Asia only until Blizzard said otherwise. I am not sure how much quicker an in game store will be than alt tabbing but I am sure someone will be able to tell me.

    The main point, that many are trying to make and being shouted down, is not whether it is P2W it is the fact that Blizzard already make an insane amount of profit out of us, so much that they can afford to develop D3, SC2, Hearthstone, shelve several years of Titan's development without worry and buy eight foot tall orc statues and in return we get Cata and then MOP that will have less raid tiers, raids that are not as good as Ulduar or Icc, less zones, smaller zones and less dungeons than Wrath.

    No one is against Blizzard making a profit but there comes a time when we are getting less than before and being asked to pay more that you have to say enough is enough!

  15. #715
    Quote Originally Posted by Drilnos View Post
    That's what's known as an assumption. If there were no cash shop, they might not have made any of the items at all, or if they did, never implemented them, because they couldn't figure out a way to make them a thematic fit for the content they were making.
    And how does putting an in-game cash shop justify the addition of those items? Why can't those three helmets just get added to a Darkmoon Faire vendor, or to Grifter or any other number of NPCs already in the game?

    Saying "We're not putting an item that gives your character Dragon wings into the game world, as we feel it dosn't fit the world's theme. Instead, we're going to charge you money for it, so that we don't break your immerison!" is such a cop-out. They're even adding an in-game method of buying these items, so that just prooves how wrong that line of thinking already is. Even if that in-game method is just talking to a goblin in a top hat next to a huge safe full of money, it's not going to suddenly make sense that a pair of firey horns don't fit the theme of the Siege of Orgrimar, a new PvP battleground or anything else already in game.

    If the money made from cash-shop items is only spent on making more cash-shop items, why would Blizzard even bother making them? They don't gain anything of value, other than possibly some extra PR or more players "addicted" to paying a subscription in order to play with items they've already paid for.

    Every item added to the cash-shop has been created using subscription money, since you can't yet pre-order cash-shop items. You can't just pay an artist to make those firey horns after they've sold x amount in order to pay his wages, not unless that artist has put an incredibly huge amount of good-will towards Blizzard on the "promise" that they'll pay them for work rendered.

    I'll say it again, if people are happy to buy an item, but can only play with that item by paying more money, more fool them. I've not brought anything out of the cash-shop and I never will untill i'm able to use that item whenever I want to.

  16. #716
    Quote Originally Posted by zaxlor View Post
    The better thing to do and I don't know why more/if any companies do it, is have a donation box.

    It wouldn't be tied to anything, wouldn't confer anything in return, wouldn't give any advantages and the only "physical" thing you'd receive is an e-mail saying thanks for supporting the company.

    That way, the people that really fucking love Blizzard can spend say £100 a month on them. They get to choose what their subscription is worth. I've got no idea how many people would use this kind of feature, but why not add something like this? Websites have "please donate here" paypal boxes, why can't Blizzard? Maybe it'd give some kind of weird signal, much like merging servers does, that all is not well.

    I still think someone actually wanting, really wanting to pay you more for a product because they tottally support it is better than cutting that product into parts and selling them off in different sized chunks and prices.
    Out here in the real world there's this thing called the postal system. You can write a check, put it in an envelope, write an address on it and bam. You've given money to whoever you want, for whatever reason you can think of.

    Why don't we ever hear this much bellyaching regarding the TCG, or the Collector's Editions? You're putting extra money down for items you can only access by paying a subscription there, too, but nobody ever bats an eye at it.

  17. #717
    if they are going to have a cash shop and earn alot of extra money they better be pumping out content like never before.

  18. #718
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Tralfamadore
    Posts
    32,405
    Re: The Pardo Quote

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    We chose to go with the subscription-based model instead of that approach. We've taken the approach that we want players to feel like it's a level playing field once they're in WoW. Outside resources don't play into it -- no gold buying, etc. We take a hard line stance against it. What you get out of microtransactions is kind of the same thing and I think our player base would feel betrayed by it. I think that's something else you have to decide on up-front instead of implementing later.
    And I think that with regards to power items this is still correct. I suspect that when Pardo said this he was talking very specifically about items of power.

    And a further quote to support this from the same Q/A session:
    When it was suggested micro-transactions might make it easier for casual gamers to maintain pace with more serious players, Pardo said, "They aren't going to be the ones spending the money."
    Make of that what you will but Blizzard has done nothing yet to make anyone assume they've changed their mind about this. It seems quite clear to me the context of the quote was speaking about microtransactions and keeping the playing field level with regard to power.
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2013-07-16 at 10:09 PM.
    "...money's most powerful ability is to allow bad people to continue doing bad things at the expense of those who don't have it."

  19. #719
    To everyone complaining about their sub paying for w/e, remember that Blizzard hasn't changed the price of the sub fee for 10 years. If they did change it to be more in line with what a dollar is worth now compared to 2004, your sub fee would be $18.04.

    I guess we owe Blizzard, since there's been more content these last few months than in the last expansion.

    For $15 a month, we've been paying less and less for the game every year since its launch.
    "So my advice is to argue based on the reasons stated, not try to make up or guess at reasons and argue those."
    Greg Street, Riot Developer - 12:50 PM - 25 May 2015

  20. #720
    Quote Originally Posted by Drilnos View Post
    Out here in the real world there's this thing called the postal system. You can write a check, put it in an envelope, write an address on it and bam. You've given money to whoever you want, for whatever reason you can think of.

    Why don't we ever hear this much bellyaching regarding the TCG, or the Collector's Editions? You're putting extra money down for items you can only access by paying a subscription there, too, but nobody ever bats an eye at it.
    What's Blizzard's bank account number then? How'd I get in touch with donating to them? Where can I find the "donate here" button on the battle.net page? I could just put a 10 pound note in an envelope with the address "Blizzard HQ" on it, but that's stupid. If Blizzard are really that hard-up for cash and if the people defending the cash-shop are so desperate to be parted with their cash, why isn't there an incredibly easy and transparent means for those people to give Blizzard more money?

    The reasons that they're giving the money dosn't matter, but why not have a robust donation method available to players. It'd be totally annoymous and no-one would have any qualms over bad-mouthing other players about what size donation was given, as it'd be tottally private. Of course it'd show up on the quartly in-come documents, but then Blizzard and the players might get to see just how "loyal" their player base is.

    As for the TCG, I'm of the same mind. It's a nice bonus to the people playing the card game and possibly a way to get those only interested in playing the TCG to sub to WoW, but it was annoying that mounts like "El Polo Grande" and the Spectral Tiger couldn't be obtained in-game. Well, you could get them in-game, by giving a person with the code for those items in-game gold or items. It's not a legitimate means of doing this, but it is possible. You run the risk of being scammed on both sides, but it's do-able.

    It's also do-able to perform this by gifting cash-shop items to other players which i'm fine with. If someone wants to pay 100k in-game gold for a moonkin hatchling then so be it. But why can't this already be in the game anyways? Let's say a mount costs £15 and the subscription currently in the UK costs £9. In that case, make it so I've got to complete 6 weekly quests in order to get a currency to buy that mount. You'll have still earnt $18 out of me and i'll have actually been playing the game at the same time! Blizzard wouldn't have earnt £24 out of me, but they would have more easily assured a constant subscription from me which they seem to prefer, as GC dosn't like it when people "only sub for content patches".

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •