The Blizzard Store and the Monthly Fee. What you need to realize.

[Deleted]

To everyone complaining about their sub paying for w/e, remember that Blizzard hasn't changed the price of the sub fee for 10 years. If they did change it to be more in line with what a dollar is worth now compared to 2004, your sub fee would be $18.04.

I guess we owe Blizzard, since there's been more content these last few months than in the last expansion.

That's not how these things work. Blizzard most certainly got their money back from the subs which they wouldn't have had if they did raise the sub price. The fact that Blizzard didn't raise sub prices with inflation wasn't out of kindness on their behalf. That's just crazy talk.

[Boogums]

That's not how these things work. Blizzard most certainly got their money back from the subs which they wouldn't have had if they did raise the sub price. The fact that Blizzard didn't raise sub prices with inflation wasn't out of kindness on their behalf. That's just crazy talk.

That IS how these things work. Companies increase the prices of their products to match inflation all the time. McDonalds has certainly made its money back from their initial investment when they bought the company, the prices of their food still went up.

If anyone wants to talk about what's "fair" with their sub fee, than anyone who's been subscribed since 2004 would owe Blizzard another $190 bucks.

[Drilnos]

Every item added to the cash-shop has been created using subscription money

Absolutely false. Items added to the cash shop were created using Blizzard's money, which they get from diverse sources, including sales of Diablo III, Starcraft II, legacy games, WoW boxes, the sale of other cash shop items and, yes, subscription fees. They don't keep all their revenue streams in neat, tidy piles and allocate based on source. That is not how it works.

Understand this. Once the money leaves your pocket and enters the seller's you have no say in how it is subsequently spent. None whatsoever. You are not employing or contracting these people, you are buying something from them, and what you are buying is the game snapshotted at the exact point in time that you give them the money. You aren't buying future versions of the game, and they are not obligated to spend the money on that. They choose to spend some money on that, because that keeps people giving them money.

[Morbownz]

I guess we owe Blizzard,

Hahaha, people like this are the reason I try my hardest to resist getting into debates on MMO-Champion.

[Flower Milk]

That's what's known as an assumption. If there were no cash shop, they might not have made any of the items at all, or if they did, never implemented them, because they couldn't figure out a way to make them a thematic fit for the content they were making.

Challenge mode rewards. There, problem solved. No cash shop needed! Or even the Barrens reward armor, too!

[Duster505]

Forgive me if what I'm about to write make little sense, I'm very tired and you wrote a nice lengthy post

Of course you should take their word. Though many don't believe a single word they say. My point was that yes, things do change and 5 years is a long time for a company. So while you should at least accept what they say, at face value, you also shouldn't be so surprised when changes are made.

I know you're against it, quite vehemently, but it isn't only Blizzard supporters that are in denial. To say it is, is rather unfair.

I'm not arguing what the main points are that people have. As I said, in a slightly later post, my problem is the people clutching at any straw, however small, to try make a point and attempting to convince others to effectively join their crusade.

I agree that there is a lot of profit being made by Blizzard already. I don't think that every last penny from WoW is the only source of income they have to be able to develop other things. There are books, all kinds of collectibles, tournaments, advertising deals... alsorts!
I will point out that MoP raiding has been fantastic for a great many people though. That is merely your opinion.

Hopefully most of that makes sense. Anyway, I'd like to point out that while I'm not against the cash shop, at least while it's only cosmetic stuff, I can see exactly where people are coming from.

The price of the expansions have gone up to battle inflation. Its not like sub is the only way for Blizzard to make money. So plz stop with the inflation talk. Thats bull cause everyone with half a brain can go see BLizzard is making good money out of the subs. Much more so than they actually need to keep WOW afloat for 10 years +

[Boogums]

Hahaha, people like this are the reason I try my hardest to resist getting into debates on MMO-Champion.

Why? Because you can't think coherently enough to provide anything constructive to the post? (I was being sarcastic by the way, I was addressing the moronic whiners complaining about what's considered "fair" and "not fair" with what Blizzard does with their money).

OT: Blizzard ALSO hasn't ever increased the prices of their expansions, and has in fact, DECREASED them, so... yea. The video game industry as a whole has increased the prices of their games to $60 (which is still nothing near to what $50 was back in 2004).

[Flower Milk]

That IS how these things work. Companies increase the prices of their products to match inflation all the time. McDonalds has certainly made its money back from their initial investment when they bought the company, the prices of their food still went up.

If anyone wants to talk about what's "fair" with their sub fee, than anyone who's been subscribed since 2004 would owe Blizzard another $190 bucks.

Off topic, but McDonalds makes most of their money off soft drinks. They get a huge barrel of syrup that makes a whole crap ton of soft drinks for like $20 and some water, and it is like instant profits right there. Do you really think they give you free refills out of the kindness of their hearts? It would take you A LOT of soft drinks to be able to make them not able to make any profits off it anymore.

[Boogums]

The price of the expansions have gone up to battle inflation. Its not like sub is the only way for Blizzard to make money. So plz stop with the inflation talk. Thats bull cause everyone with half a brain can go see BLizzard is making good money out of the subs. Much more so than they actually need to keep WOW afloat for 10 years +

Companies don't decide to just "stop" making money because they've covered their expenses, that would be a non-profit (not a corporation). On top of that, no, the prices for the expansions HAVEN'T gone up. (The even give two expansions away for free now.)

[Flower Milk]

Why? Because you can't think coherently enough to provide anything constructive to the post? (I was being sarcastic by the way, I was addressing the moronic whiners complaining about what's considered "fair" and "not fair" with what Blizzard does with their money).

OT: Blizzard ALSO hasn't ever increased the prices of their expansions, and has in fact, DECREASED them, so... yea. The video game industry as a whole has increased the prices of their games to $60 (which is still nothing near to what $50 was back in 2004).

That is because they have made enough of a profit off of the development of those games that the sales of them are just extra profit into their pockets at this point. Those developers who worked on those games are long gone and have been paid for their efforts long ago. But I bet you think they are reducing the price just out of the kindness of their hearts or something, yes? I'm sorry, but you seem very naive. That is not how businesses work.

[Boogums]

Its not like sub is the only way for Blizzard to make money.

Of course, when Blizzard DOES try other ways to make money, retarded whiny haters lose their shit.

[Duster505]

Why? Because you can't think coherently enough to provide anything constructive to the post? (I was being sarcastic by the way, I was addressing the moronic whiners complaining about what's considered "fair" and "not fair" with what Blizzard does with their money).

OT: Blizzard ALSO hasn't ever increased the prices of their expansions, and has in fact, DECREASED them, so... yea. The video game industry as a whole has increased the prices of their games to $60 (which is still nothing near to what $50 was back in 2004).

Now lets stick to facts shall we. Prices of expansions have gone up.

Yes... Lets be constructive shall we. And base that on facts. Not bull.

[zaxlor]

That IS how these things work. Companies increase the prices of their products to match inflation all the time. McDonalds has certainly made its money back from their initial investment when they bought the company, the prices of their food still went up.

If anyone wants to talk about what's "fair" with their sub fee, than anyone who's been subscribed since 2004 would owe Blizzard another $190 bucks.

How is it that other games are able to make sequals every 2 years and survive off the box cost alone, but Blizzard not only charges per exspansion but also a subscription fee? Fair enough not all these games are always online, but let's compare WoW to say Call of Duty.

Call of Duty's going to cost you £25 for the game, plus another £40 a year to go online. Even if you're not paying for XBox Live you can still play the offline portion just fine, or even with bots. If you buy the PS3 version you're only spending £40 a year for that one game.

WoW on the other hand charges you £10 for the first few games, plus it gives you 1 month of game time. Cata costs £5 and MoP is £25. Before you've even gotten access to the "full game", you're still paying more than other titles. Even if you compare WoW to Skyrim as they're both RPGs, that's £21.33 on Amazon.co.uk

So for a year of WoW you've had to pay £10 + £5 + £25 + (11 x £9) which equals £139 for the full year. That's almost 7 copies of Skyrim, for just one game!

You've already paid way, way over the odds for the development and upkeep of World of Warcraft. According to http://www.statisticbrain.com/skyrim...-v-statistics/ Skyrim has sold 10 million copies. Didn't WoW use to have a subscription base of 10 million? If Bethesda can afford to create a sequal to Skyrim based off it's box sales alone, surely, surely WoW can afford to keep making new content either without a subsciption or without a cash-shop.

[Boogums]

That is because they have made enough of a profit off of the development of those games that the sales of them are just extra profit into their pockets at this point. Those developers who worked on those games are long gone and have been paid for their efforts long ago. But I bet you think they are reducing the price just out of the kindness of their hearts or something, yes? I'm sorry, but you seem very naive. That is not how businesses work.

Again, it's a corporation, not some trust fund. They take additional revenue after covering overhead and invest it into other projects (not just "pocket" it). Sure, employees may get bonuses, but where do you think the money to make Hearthstone or Titan came from?

- - - Updated - - -

Now lets stick to facts shall we. Prices of expansions have gone up. They have also removed 1 month sub from the price like it was with TBC when it launched. If you need proof of that then I will put a photo here where it says on the box - 1 month gameplay included with my TBC copy.

Yes... Lets be constructive shall we. And base that on facts. Not bull.

Prices have gone up? Really? I guess I must just be a fucking moron. You see, in my universe, $39.99 is the same as $39.99, not greater. Judging on how Burning Crusade MSRPed in 2007 for $39.99, I just can't see how the price of expansions has gone up from $39.99 to $39.99 Would you mind enlightening me on how that's the case?

Also, I don't recall Burning Crusade ever coming with free gametime, but if you do have an actual legit picture, please post it.

[Pann]

Forgive me if what I'm about to write make little sense, I'm very tired and you wrote a nice lengthy post

Of course you should take their word. Though many don't believe a single word they say. My point was that yes, things do change and 5 years is a long time for a company. So while you should at least accept what they say, at face value, you also shouldn't be so surprised when changes are made.

I know you're against it, quite vehemently, but it isn't only Blizzard supporters that are in denial. To say it is, is rather unfair.

I'm not arguing what the main points are that people have. As I said, in a slightly later post, my problem is the people clutching at any straw, however small, to try make a point and attempting to convince others to effectively join their crusade.

I agree that there is a lot of profit being made by Blizzard already. I don't think that every last penny from WoW is the only source of income they have to be able to develop other things. There are books, all kinds of collectibles, tournaments, advertising deals... alsorts!
I will point out that MoP raiding has been fantastic for a great many people though. That is merely your opinion.

Hopefully most of that makes sense. Anyway, I'd like to point out that while I'm not against the cash shop, at least while it's only cosmetic stuff, I can see exactly where people are coming from.

What you wrote does make sense although I do not agree with all of it.

I see no reason why we should take Blizzard's word on face value any longer just in the past week or so we have a moderator here saying that they were invited to a Blizzard event where it was explained that not worry the data mined files were for Korea and then a few days later they turn around say that it is coming to Western realms. And lets not forget this is the company that claims it cannot produce more content with its limited resources despite being one of the most profitable gaming companies on the planet.

I maybe be against the cash shop but I am not in denial of its existence whereas there are a number of posters who are now supporting it who were quite abusive at the suggestion that it was coming to Western realms.

The crusade as you put it is to simply say a cash shop in a game that charges a subscription as well as for the base game and expansions is not acceptable, especially when they are giving us less content for our money than they have in the past.

WOW is the main source of their income, no WOW = no Blizzard. It is my opinion that raiding is worse than in the past and the fact that raiding participation has been lower in the past two tiers than ever before suggests that I am not alone.

[Boogums]

TIL: $39.99 IN 2007 IS > THAN $39.99 TODAY. l MEAN, SURE, $39.99 IN 2007 IS ACTUALLY CLOSER TO $44.13 TODAY (meaning $39.99 is less money in 2007 than $39.99 is today) BUT I'M JUST A STUPID ASSHOLE WHO DOESN'T KNOW WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT, THANKS FOR ENLIGHTENING ME MMOC.

[Duster505]

The in game cash shop is about basic principles of what WOW was built on. If Blizzard decides to change that then fine. But like Pardo said himself 5 years back... they can not do that without having some players feeling betrayed.

So no matter the logic of corporate greed that fanboys are now sticking to... Fact is that there will always be a group of ppl that will not like this. Blizzard will not act like its not the case. They will see it on their sub numbers. And they will also see it on number of new players that will not be ready to buy an 8 year old game that charges for the original game + expansions + sub and then has cash shop fees as well. Those new players will go to new game that might have cash shop... but is not putting up multiple pay walls to let players enjoy their game. Like someone said here earlier... The world HAS changed. You simply can not have such a business model even tho it looks great on paper for your bank account.

Blizzard failed with double gating content in MOP by having both REP and Valor. The exact same will happen with new players when they realise the entire game is built on double or triple charging them for the enjoyment of playing. Paying sub and having in game micro transaction is simply not acceptable. No other game does that. And thats the bottom line why WOW will not be making extra money with the cash shop... they will just loose subs and no new players will touch the game if they intend to keep that business model.

I think even Blizzard realises that by now.

[Boogums]

How is it that other games are able to make sequals every 2 years and survive off the box cost alone, but Blizzard not only charges per exspansion but also a subscription fee? Fair enough not all these games are always online, but let's compare WoW to say Call of Duty.

Call of Duty's going to cost you £25 for the game, plus another £40 a year to go online. Even if you're not paying for XBox Live you can still play the offline portion just fine, or even with bots. If you buy the PS3 version you're only spending £40 a year for that one game.

WoW on the other hand charges you £10 for the first few games, plus it gives you 1 month of game time. Cata costs £5 and MoP is £25. Before you've even gotten access to the "full game", you're still paying more than other titles. Even if you compare WoW to Skyrim as they're both RPGs, that's £21.33 on Amazon.co.uk

So for a year of WoW you've had to pay £10 + £5 + £25 + (11 x £9) which equals £139 for the full year. That's almost 7 copies of Skyrim, for just one game!

You've already paid way, way over the odds for the development and upkeep of World of Warcraft. According to http://www.statisticbrain.com/skyrim...-v-statistics/ Skyrim has sold 10 million copies. Didn't WoW use to have a subscription base of 10 million? If Bethesda can afford to create a sequal to Skyrim based off it's box sales alone, surely, surely WoW can afford to keep making new content either without a subsciption or without a cash-shop.

AGAIN, BLlZZARD IS A CORPORATION, NOT A NON-PROFIT ORGANIZATION.

- - - Updated - - -

GAlZ GAIZ DID YOU KNOW THAT IF YOU BOUGHT SOMETHING FOR $39.99, AND THEN BOUGHT THE SAME THING 4 YEARS LATER FOR $39.99, THAT MEANS THE PRICE WENT UP?

Moderator Note: Stop with the all-caps. [ML]

[Boogums]

I don't think you're very clever when you start saying that people 'owe' Blizzard money because Blizzard hasn't upped their subscription.

In a fair world the top <1% wouldn't be able to fill their pockets with and endless stream of millions of cash, while the bottom 20% is too poor to even be able to afford buying a sandwich every day. Your, and most people's, view about fairness is about as twisted as women's anorexic view on ideal bodyweight.

I don't think YOU'RE very clever because you missed the part where I explained that I was being sarcastic with that comment.

[Pann]

Of course, when Blizzard DOES try other ways to make money, retarded whiny haters lose their shit.

It would seem that you are the only one losing their shit here.

Again, it's a corporation, not some trust fund. They take additional revenue after covering overhead and invest it into other projects (not just "pocket" it). Sure, employees may get bonuses, but where do you think the money to make Hearthstone or Titan came from?

If they are not pocketing the money how do they have $4.6 billion in cash sitting in the bank?

Prices have gone up? Really? I guess I must just be a fucking moron. You see, in my universe, $39.99 is the same as $39.99, not greater. Judging on how Burning Crusade MSRPed in 2007 for $39.99, I just can't see how the price of expansions has gone up from $39.99 to $39.99 Would you mind enlightening me on how that's the case?

Also, I don't recall Burning Crusade ever coming with free gametime, but if you do have an actual legit picture, please post it.

I paid £19.99 each for TBC and Wrath both of which I bought from a shop I bought Cata and MOP direct from Blizzard, which meant all of the money was going to them, for £29.99 each. So certainly in the UK the price for expansions has increased dramatically.