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  1. #781
    Quote Originally Posted by ACES View Post
    You pay a monthly fee to be able to log in to your account and play; nothing more, nothing less.
    This is the flaw in a lot of people's thinking. Yes, you pay to log on, but as a consumer you're not supposed to TRY and get yourself boned. You're not supposed to bend over and say "here mega-corporation, have your way with me!". You want good value for your money, not for the company to nickle and dime you by putting development time towards things you have to pay extra for instead of towards the things your expensive sub fee is paying for.
    And to those ignorant individuals who don't realize 15 bucks a month is a lot of money for a video game, go look on Steam right now, see how much you can get for that same 15bucks. With the money you spend just to be able to log into WoW for a year (not including buying hte game, expansions, or the at times necessary account services), you could buy an entire library of games right now. If you want to argue that WoW and it's measly few patches a year has more content, and content of higher quality, then an entire library of games of your choice from Steam, then you're so poorly informed that you're not even qualified for this simple discussion.
    This isn't a game that's struggling to get by, so stop justifying the company making the game a worse deal for you.

  2. #782
    Quote Originally Posted by Duster505 View Post
    Still - you forget that those other games you are talking about are F2P games... not sub based games. They are BUILT around selling power related microtransactions. WOW is not - never has. Not in Asia and not in US or EU.
    No, I don't "forget." Here's an example: Hero Academy is f2p with micro transactions, but none of the micro transactions make you more powerful; but the Asian version of the game has both the same micro transactions that the NA one has AND power based ones.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duster505 View Post
    Thats the point here that even you should start to understand now. PPL in Asia are still paying sub for WOW. It might be different model - but its still a sub. Blizzard somehow is acting like WOW is free to play in Asia and thats why they can add extra items that sell power in cash shops. Its not. And if you could understand Chinese or Korean you could go and see the exact same argument there where SUBSCRIBERS are not happy to be charged extra in ingame shop for a power that should be part of the sub.
    Yes, but the pricing is so different that it's comparing apples to oranges.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duster505 View Post
    Sadly - so few ppl actually have friends in Asia or talk any of the language that they eat up what Blizzard is saying. The fact of the matter is that its just not true. There is a big movement in ASIA as well as US/EU that does NOT want to see cash shop on top of subscription. They want to see a hybrid model that offers either F2P or sub. Not both.
    In America? I'm sure, because the culture here is very greedy entitled assholes who want to have their cake and eat it to; but if you expect people to believe that a culture that's extremely different from ours has some huge "movement" going on on your word, then you're going to have to post some facts and documented sources and not just "trust me gaiz, i know"

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Duster505 View Post
    No - Blizzard has a web store. And items there are not directly linked to real money currencies that can be used in WOW. If you don't see the difference... then I can't help you.
    Yes. They did. Welcome to 2009: http://wow.joystiq.com/2009/11/04/blizzard-launches-real-money-in-game-pet-store/
    "So my advice is to argue based on the reasons stated, not try to make up or guess at reasons and argue those."
    Greg Street, Riot Developer - 12:50 PM - 25 May 2015

  3. #783
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tommo View Post
    Quoted for fucking irony. Have a good read of this folks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Duster505 View Post
    5 year old quote or 5 day old does not matter. The game has always been built on the same principle. If BLizzard is adding a cash shop then fine. But then they also need to admit the world HAS changed and you can not have both sub and Cash shop and still say its the same game. Cause it is not.

    As long as there IS cash shop coming we know that there IS coming the ability to buy power. That is just a given fact. Your logic of Blizzard saying something now about it will no longer hold water in 5 years time..... right ?

    It doesn't matter what is in that cash shop. Players can now take a clear stand and say no thank you by unsubing from the game and show that its not acceptable to act like nothing changes when you add ingame currency directly connected to real life money. And then expect ppl to also pay full sub and buy the expansion on top of that.
    As I already noted. Those words were already outdated by the TCG items before he even uttered them.

  4. #784
    Quote Originally Posted by Roflifier View Post
    No, I don't "forget." Here's an example: Hero Academy is f2p with micro transactions, but none of the micro transactions make you more powerful; but the Asian version of the game has both the same micro transactions that the NA one has AND power based ones.



    Yes, but the pricing is so different that it's comparing apples to oranges.



    In America? I'm sure, because the culture here is very greedy entitled assholes who want to have their cake and eat it to; but if you expect people to believe that a culture that's extremely different from ours has some huge "movement" going on on your word, then you're going to have to post some facts and documented sources and not just "trust me gaiz, i know"

    - - - Updated - - -



    Yes. They did. Welcome to 2009: http://wow.joystiq.com/2009/11/04/bl...ame-pet-store/
    Welcome to the fact that the WEB store does not give you any currencies inside WOW. It gives you items that you own... but you do not by resources for real money that you spend ingame. Again.. basic logic that you and all that think paying sub AND having ingame shop with extra currency is acceptable.

    And about Hero Academy.... Yes.. its F2P game. Thats my point. Its not SUB based with in game shop. I think you are slowly getting it even you do not admit it yourself.

  5. #785
    Quote Originally Posted by Duster505 View Post
    Banned players have broken the code of conduct in the game. They no longer have right to play it.

    But its very good point that you should mention that you have a choice to end your sub. Thats exactly the point here. WOW is NOT just the current group of players. Its also new players that will just laugh at you and Blizzard if you say them they are going to have to pay for the box + the expansion + the sub JUST to get into the ingame cash shop that is offering the same as F2P games are now offering.

    If you thought WOW was loosing sub fast now.. just wait if you think this will be reality.
    Why would you want the items if you werent paying for the game? It's not like you buy a Blizzard plush and then cancel your account and they send men to retake it. You're buying items for the game. If you're not playing the game you wont need the items anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kekekz View Post
    Everyone hated BC, everyone hated Wrath, everyone hated Cata and everyone will hate MoP. MoP will become the new worst expansion and Al'akir or BoT will become the new "last good raid" or something stupid like that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelliak View Post
    You're now blocked. Told you I was done with you. You want to pick fights over minute details as if this is the fucking presidential debate on a gaming forum.
    Enjoy.

  6. #786
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    As I already noted. Those words were already outdated by the TCG items before he even uttered them.
    Nope they were not. TCG items could not be used as ingame resources. They were like any other items that could not be traded after you logged into the game. Thats the core difference. They were items... not a currency. Read what Pardo said and see the difference.

  7. #787
    Quote Originally Posted by Duster505 View Post
    Nope they were not. TCG items could not be used as ingame resources. They were like any other items that could not be traded after you logged into the game. Thats the core difference. They were items... not a currency. Read what Pardo said and see the difference.
    Tell that to all the people selling them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kekekz View Post
    Everyone hated BC, everyone hated Wrath, everyone hated Cata and everyone will hate MoP. MoP will become the new worst expansion and Al'akir or BoT will become the new "last good raid" or something stupid like that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelliak View Post
    You're now blocked. Told you I was done with you. You want to pick fights over minute details as if this is the fucking presidential debate on a gaming forum.
    Enjoy.

  8. #788
    Quote Originally Posted by sqicychiqotles View Post
    Why would you want the items if you werent paying for the game? It's not like you buy a Blizzard plush and then cancel your account and they send men to retake it. You're buying items for the game. If you're not playing the game you wont need the items anyway.
    Exactly.. and new potential players that see a sub based game with in game cash shop will go to the next game that does not have sub but only cash shop. Specially now when Blizzard has managed to create such huge negative wipe around WOW and the game loosing 1/3rd of their subs in 3 years.

  9. #789
    Quote Originally Posted by ACES View Post
    Every time Blizzard announces something new for the pet store we see the same threads come up about how a game with a monthly sub fee shouldn't have a microtransaction store. I get really frustrated when I see these posts because some people just don't get it.

    You pay a monthly fee to be able to log in to your account and play; nothing more, nothing less.

    Blizzard is a business and they have to do with that money whatever they feel will be most profitable. This can be anything from developing PvE and PvP content to developing items for the Blizzard store. The purpose of the former is to keep people subscribed to WoW and maybe even bring old people back/new people in. The latter is designed to bring in additional revenue to be able to develop more content.

    The most important thing to realize is that Blizzard will NEVER make Tier Sets or any current content gear available for cash; they are not stupid enough to do that and you can mark my words that it'll never happen.

    The Blizzard store is not a slippery slope, it is a smart business move to bring in more money for the company. The more resources Blizzard has, the more content they can develop and the better off we are as players.
    Peoples opinions are peoples opinions. You can say they are wrong just like they can say you are. Their is no rule saying we cannot be offended by microtransactions just like their is no rule to say you can't offer them.

    I just wish the time they spent making content for them they would do it for something in game. How long did people ask for a bat mount and now the only way to get one is to buy one? I seen a rift pic with some wicked spider mount. How cool would that be? But unfortunately it would be like 20bucks that I would spend because I would have to have it lol. Put it in the game and make some ridiculous way to get it. More stuff like that in game would keep people playing longer than just logging in and having it.

  10. #790
    Quote Originally Posted by sqicychiqotles View Post
    Tell that to all the people selling them.
    They are still just items ... not in game currency. Unless ofc... you are ready to take a chance of buying a code directly ingame... And then you would be pretty stupid

  11. #791
    Quote Originally Posted by Duster505 View Post
    Exactly.. and new potential players that see a sub based game with in game cash shop will go to the next game that does not have sub but only cash shop. Specially now when Blizzard has managed to create such huge negative wipe around WOW and the game loosing 1/3rd of their subs in 3 years.
    I'm sure. Just like all the other features people said would "kill" WoW. This is no different then when they announced the pet shop and people said the exact same things. You know what I saw when it was released? Every one using the items and nobody caring.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kekekz View Post
    Everyone hated BC, everyone hated Wrath, everyone hated Cata and everyone will hate MoP. MoP will become the new worst expansion and Al'akir or BoT will become the new "last good raid" or something stupid like that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelliak View Post
    You're now blocked. Told you I was done with you. You want to pick fights over minute details as if this is the fucking presidential debate on a gaming forum.
    Enjoy.

  12. #792
    Quote Originally Posted by sqicychiqotles View Post
    I'm sure. Just like all the other features people said would "kill" WoW. This is no different then when they announced the pet shop and people said the exact same things. You know what I saw when it was released? Every one using the items and nobody caring.
    Now stop exaggerating. If you want to have a debate dont talk like everyone used the Web store.

    Also .. do not act like there will not be plenty of ppl that will kill the person with the Web store helmet first when they see them in BGs. Cause I have heard plenty of ppl talk about that already

  13. #793
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duster505 View Post
    Nope they were not. TCG items could not be used as ingame resources. They were like any other items that could not be traded after you logged into the game. Thats the core difference. They were items... not a currency. Read what Pardo said and see the difference.
    I read it and read it, and just don't see how you can interpret it the way you seem to be interpreting it. It's clear enough that he says he regards the use of outside resources leads to unevening of the playing field and that he regards any kind of micro transaction as being "kind of the same thing". Using outside resources to get a shinier mount or tabard from the TCG is directly opposed to the philosophy he's advocating - it's an uneven playing field of shininess - and yet it was something that had been in the game for 2 years before he made that statement.

    Nothing changed with the pet store and incoming in-game store, other than the less horrible distribution of the shinies it provides.

  14. #794
    Quote Originally Posted by Duster505 View Post
    Now stop exaggerating. If you want to have a debate dont talk like everyone used the Web store.

    Also .. do not act like there will not be plenty of ppl that will kill the person with the Web store helmet first when they see them in BGs. Cause I have heard plenty of ppl talk about that already
    Let me put it this way. I saw no difference between WoW before a feature was announced and after it was released. People get up in arms about EVERYTHING. This is no different.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kekekz View Post
    Everyone hated BC, everyone hated Wrath, everyone hated Cata and everyone will hate MoP. MoP will become the new worst expansion and Al'akir or BoT will become the new "last good raid" or something stupid like that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelliak View Post
    You're now blocked. Told you I was done with you. You want to pick fights over minute details as if this is the fucking presidential debate on a gaming forum.
    Enjoy.

  15. #795
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    I read it and read it, and just don't see how you can interpret it the way you seem to be interpreting it. It's clear enough that he says he regards the use of outside resources leads to unevening of the playing field and that he regards any kind of micro transaction as being "kind of the same thing". Using outside resources to get a shinier mount or tabard from the TCG is directly opposed to the philosophy he's advocating - it's an uneven playing field of shininess - and yet it was something that had been in the game for 2 years before he made that statement.

    Nothing changed with the pet store and incoming in-game store, other than the less horrible distribution of the shinies it provides.
    The trading cards could not be used as currency inside WOW. They on its own were never outside resource that you could trade after you logged into the game. Its true that they were items that were bought for real money. But real money was never currency AFTER you logged into the game.

    There is a big difference. What BLizzard is talking about now is adding direct IN GAME currency that is connected to real life money that can be used to buy in game items. It opens up many different worm holes that TCG could never do.

    ANY person that pays a sub for a game should not have to then load extra cash into ingame currency to buy through cash shop. WHy? Because only F2P games use currency directly connected to real money that can be used in cash shop.... Sub driven game does not need such system cause it already gets his revenues through the subs.

    There is nothing complicated about this... You pay a sub fee and buy items from web store. OR you buy ingame currency for real money to spend on ingame web store items. Thats why one is called Sub based game and the other classed F2P game.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by sqicychiqotles View Post
    Let me put it this way. I saw no difference between WoW before a feature was announced and after it was released. People get up in arms about EVERYTHING. This is no different.
    I personally think this is very different. As a player that has been playing F2P game with cash store for few years... The core of the game totally changes with connecting any currency with real money. Be that in GW2 or in Neverwinter. Or even RIFT and SWTOR now. Some of them offer sub but none of those games prevents a player that has used ingame cashop to not log into the game. They might close down some content for them ore limit it. But not force anyone to pay for just loging in for wearing those items.
    be
    I personally will not be supporting WOW if they decide to add ingame shop and still expect everyone to pay sub. It simply would not be good long term model and will weaken the game for new players considering the age of the game and what is already being offered on the MMO market.

  16. #796
    Consumers SHOULD complain if they do not like where the product is going. They are by no means entitled to have game changed to suit them, but they still SHOULD complain. If nobody complained about changes they didn't like we would be in a pretty shitty state.

    I paid a monthly fee to WoW because what I got was a full game. I don't want to be paying 15$ a month for the ability to spend more money. Does it affect me what someone else has? No, of course not. But it also doesn't affect casuals if only the hardcore have orange text. Or if only the most dedicated have a cool mount or title. Bottom line is, some people don't like the business practice, I am one. That's just like, our opinion man. Doesn't make any sense to argue that it's "wrong".

  17. #797
    Quote Originally Posted by uiemad View Post
    Consumers SHOULD complain if they do not like where the product is going. They are by no means entitled to have game changed to suit them, but they still SHOULD complain. If nobody complained about changes they didn't like we would be in a pretty shitty state.

    I paid a monthly fee to WoW because what I got was a full game. I don't want to be paying 15$ a month for the ability to spend more money. Does it affect me what someone else has? No, of course not. But it also doesn't affect casuals if only the hardcore have orange text. Or if only the most dedicated have a cool mount or title. Bottom line is, some people don't like the business practice, I am one. That's just like, our opinion man. Doesn't make any sense to argue that it's "wrong".
    The problem with people complaining with this game is its only a fraction of the people who play it. why do you think blizzard doesn't "care". 95% of this game is casuals.

  18. #798
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Karnige View Post
    The problem with people complaining with this game is its only a fraction of the people who play it. why do you think blizzard doesn't "care". 95% of this game is casuals.
    95% of the game is bots

  19. #799
    Quote Originally Posted by Duster505 View Post
    No - Blizzard has a web store. And items there are not directly linked to real money currencies that can be used in WOW. If you don't see the difference... then I can't help you.
    guardian cub says 'hi'

  20. #800
    Quote Originally Posted by uiemad View Post
    Consumers SHOULD complain if they do not like where the product is going. They are by no means entitled to have game changed to suit them, but they still SHOULD complain. If nobody complained about changes they didn't like we would be in a pretty shitty state.

    I paid a monthly fee to WoW because what I got was a full game. I don't want to be paying 15$ a month for the ability to spend more money. Does it affect me what someone else has? No, of course not. But it also doesn't affect casuals if only the hardcore have orange text. Or if only the most dedicated have a cool mount or title. Bottom line is, some people don't like the business practice, I am one. That's just like, our opinion man. Doesn't make any sense to argue that it's "wrong".

    Well Pet Store/TCG has been around since at least Wrath. I just don't understand why it's just now an issue. I can understand people not liking microtransactions. What I can't understand is why they are only getting up in arms now, as opposed to way back when TCG and Pet Store were first introduced to WoW?

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