1. #1
    Blademaster Velk's Avatar
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    [FROST] SimCraft Vs Everyone Else (LB vs NT)

    Hey fellow Mages!

    Over the past weekend I've been trying to fulling optimize my character and for the most part it has worked except for one pretty crucial part. Living Bomb and Nether Tempest.

    First off, Here is my ARMORY

    After SimCrafting a bit I came to the realization that all my research that says I should be using NT instead of LB came to a halt when I came to the following results:

    DPS /w Living Bomb (According to SimCraft): 139,799

    DPS /w Nether Tempest (According to SimCraft): 135,969


    This information completely destroyed my thought process. I realize I shouldn't be this crazy about my DPS with my gear level but I want to do the best Possible DPS I can since prior to Re-rolling, All I did was theory-craft and try to optimize.

    TL;DR (that's sad)

    SimCraft told me the opposite of what everyone has been telling me, Should I use LB with these numbers? Please help a recent Re-rolled mage (I don't know how to properly pewpew yet)

    THANKS!

    PS: Any other issues you guys see with my setup please feel absolutely free to grill me on. Trying to learn here.

    *Edit*
    Title may be a bit controversial, I'm just stating what i feel as in everyone I've talked to saying "Go Nether Tempest or Die"
    Last edited by Velk; 2013-07-16 at 02:36 AM. Reason: PS + Title

  2. #2
    "Everyone else"? Not sure who those "everyone" people are but you use LB for 1-2 targets depending on how spread they are, NT for 2-3+. This change came with 5.3 though, so it's understandable that you may have not known.

    Other than that, don't see anything really wrong with your armory.
    Last edited by Jaylol; 2013-07-16 at 02:41 AM.

  3. #3
    Blademaster Velk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylol View Post
    "Everyone else"? Not sure who those "everyone" people
    Sorry about that being so vague. Edited in a little explanation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylol View Post
    but you use LB for 1-2 targets depending on how spread they are, NT for 2-3+. This change came with 5.3 though, so it's understandable that you may have not known.
    Wow, Thanks for this. Didn't realize we had to switch depending on fights.

  4. #4
    Bloodsail Admiral Nathyiel's Avatar
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    So what about me ?
    I'm still using Frost bomb ... (except on Primordius where I go for NT).
    The answers is 42
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    Nathyiel, TempteÐ (sargeras-EU) - @Nathyiel

  5. #5
    Ugh you really use that ugly frost bomb thingy with cast time? Everytime I switch to Living Bomb on single target fights my trinkets don't proc in the beginning of the fight. This may just be subjective, but everytime I tried LB my trinkets didn't proc.

  6. #6
    Immortal Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velk View Post
    Hey fellow Mages!

    Over the past weekend I've been trying to fulling optimize my character and for the most part it has worked except for one pretty crucial part. Living Bomb and Nether Tempest.

    First off, Here is my ARMORY

    After SimCrafting a bit I came to the realization that all my research that says I should be using NT instead of LB came to a halt when I came to the following results:

    DPS /w Living Bomb (According to SimCraft): 139,799

    DPS /w Nether Tempest (According to SimCraft): 135,969


    This information completely destroyed my thought process. I realize I shouldn't be this crazy about my DPS with my gear level but I want to do the best Possible DPS I can since prior to Re-rolling, All I did was theory-craft and try to optimize.

    TL;DR (that's sad)

    SimCraft told me the opposite of what everyone has been telling me, Should I use LB with these numbers? Please help a recent Re-rolled mage (I don't know how to properly pewpew yet)

    THANKS!

    PS: Any other issues you guys see with my setup please feel absolutely free to grill me on. Trying to learn here.

    *Edit*
    Title may be a bit controversial, I'm just stating what i feel as in everyone I've talked to saying "Go Nether Tempest or Die"
    Everyone was saying go LB or die actually.

    PS: SimC is borked. Whatever it says, don't bother listening. It says Frost Mage is #3 DPS. Yeah, like that'll ever happen this expansion

  7. #7
    Bloodsail Admiral Nathyiel's Avatar
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    @polar: SimC is good for working on an specific spec (rotation, stat weight) but not to compare class/spec between them.

    Globally, it's the whole mage class that are overestimated in SimC.

    @reflection: if you use Frost bomb if Ice Flow, I can't see the problem with the cast time. I can time very easily all my BF+2*FoF and AT.
    The answers is 42
    -------------------------
    Nathyiel, TempteÐ (sargeras-EU) - @Nathyiel

  8. #8
    You should not time AT with BF or FoF procs. It's much more valuable to extend some really good trinkets, pots, heroism and stuff like that with AT. BF and FoF procs are just a bonus.

    If I use Ice Floes (recently discovered blazing speed which is just awesome) I use it to run as far as I can while casting. So I usually cast FFB while running because it has the longest cast time and so the longest way I can run. Of course this also depends on the Boss and the distance I have to run. But if you often have to do small steps (like Horridon e.g.) Nethervortex works really nice.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by reflection View Post
    You should not time AT with BF or FoF procs. It's much more valuable to extend some really good trinkets, pots, heroism and stuff like that with AT. BF and FoF procs are just a bonus.
    You should get trinkets/pot/hero AND BF/FoF procs for alter time.

  10. #10
    if you use Frost bomb if Ice Flow, I can't see the problem with the cast time. I can time very easily all my BF+2*FoF and AT.
    Why would u ever use frostbomb on anything but a fight like windlord or so Nat?.. that's just a dps loss :S Why mention Ice Flow in this as well? U can keep max rotation with IF, instead of wasting the talent itself, on a waste talent, thus almost wasting 2 whole talents. damn.
    It might be "fun" for you, but I doubt u top any meters, or even play on a competetive lvl with a playstayle including fb. At least plz dont preach this idea to others, that would confuse ppl and cause them to consider stuff that's not even worth considering.

    Always NT/LB Velk, hardly ever use frostbomb, if at all
    Last edited by Hasufer; 2013-07-17 at 12:10 PM.

  11. #11
    Bloodsail Admiral Nathyiel's Avatar
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    I likely top all meter but I don't like multy-doting so I never do it.

    Don't forget that when you don't cast Nt, you have time for casting other things.
    And I have no use for BS, I'm Goblin and Engineering ...
    The answers is 42
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    Nathyiel, TempteÐ (sargeras-EU) - @Nathyiel

  12. #12
    Why do you mention BS?

    I'm not forgetting anything, it's quite obvious that u free a gcd from lb/nt to cast fb, however, u have 8sec cd or so on fb, thus anyways taking up more time over a 12sec course of a dot, thus again making it worse. Dont forget that u can't move while castig it (unless u waste IF on it) which u can by reapplying 1 or more dots etc. Seeing you dont like dotting, there is no need to discuss this further. If u like FB, u go with FB, just be aware that it is a dps decrease in several ways and atm u wont do nearly as much dmg, as the mages who "likes" dotting and play with the "obvious" choises for max output

    Abnyways I'm just telling this guy what to choose to optimise his dps, instead of obviously decreasing it ^^
    Last edited by Hasufer; 2013-07-17 at 12:26 PM.

  13. #13
    Bloodsail Admiral Nathyiel's Avatar
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    I pretty sure you overestimate the decrease.
    And FB cast time is really really short some time. And on fight that require a lot of on-demand burst, it's a lot better with frost bomb.
    The answers is 42
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    Nathyiel, TempteÐ (sargeras-EU) - @Nathyiel

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Nathyiel View Post
    I pretty sure you overestimate the decrease.
    And FB cast time is really really short some time. And on fight that require a lot of on-demand burst, it's a lot better with frost bomb.
    The only time I considered using FB this tier was on HC Mageara for hitting the adds hard with a FB shatter. However, this was very early on during progress and before 5.3 changes.

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