Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst
1
2
3
LastLast
  1. #21
    dont forget dots double dip haste, (except LB), by both increasing the ticks and lowering the GCD

    so a 150k NT at 0 haste would do 100k dmg per second of your time, while at 50% haste, your bomb would actualy do 225k dmg per second of your time

    and yes LB doesnt get to double dip, however this is a rare case where by having more haste you actualy are getting more mana for your rotation, becasue in that flat 1.0s youll recover more mana with more haste and spend the exact same amount in the exact same amount of time.

    NT is definately mroe benefited by haste until 50%, but LB is still slightly better than a linear dmg increase

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by justastrudel View Post
    You're right. That was my original understanding of how they worked until I saw a bunch of people recently claiming that haste breakpoints had no effect on DPS of Dots, just DPET so I assumed I must've been wrong. Guess I shouldn't assume others know what they're talking about

    In actual testing the duration did appear to stay consistent with frost armor toggled, but the ticks in that duration and thus overall damage did change of the ability did change. Haste certainly appears to be a stronger overall stat up to a point for arcane (assuming double rppm trinket/meta), before mastery takes over.
    That would have been AMMR talking about the increase not being beneficial.

    Anyways, back on topic: 9762 haste + almost 13k mastery is very attainable before 540.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...tamagee/simple

  3. #23
    Bloodsail Admiral Saegno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Kansas City, Ks
    Posts
    1,013
    Quote Originally Posted by Mastamage View Post
    That would have been AMMR talking about the increase not being beneficial.

    Anyways, back on topic: 9762 haste + almost 13k mastery is very attainable before 540.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...tamagee/simple
    >Offtopic<
    Crazy running into someone at random in a guild I used to be in. Hell you likely replaced me when I switched servers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lohe View Post
    If you're semi-hardcore or semi-casual what's the other half? To me, they're both the same thing.
    Canicus - 577 - Arcane Mage - US Mal'Ganis Horde - 12/14H T16

  4. #24
    Banned Lei Shi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Terrace of Endless Spring
    Posts
    2,494
    Quote Originally Posted by Serene View Post
    yapp yapp
    An LFR Hero such as yourself shouldn't be commenting about matters you know absolutely nothing about, such as arcane. Your spread of false informations is a disgrace.
    Stay out of these forums.

    Infracted.
    Last edited by Elysia; 2013-07-15 at 09:39 AM.

  5. #25
    Well we went from accomplishing something to trolling again. Lets get back on topic.

    I'll be giving Serene's build a shot this next week's lockout. Originally I was straight mastery but I dropped 900 mastery in place of 900 haste to get to 9762 haste.

  6. #26
    Dreadlord Cycobi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    In a tree
    Posts
    929
    Quote Originally Posted by Mastamage View Post
    Well we went from accomplishing something to trolling again. Lets get back on topic.

    I'll be giving Serene's build a shot this next week's lockout. Originally I was straight mastery but I dropped 900 mastery in place of 900 haste to get to 9762 haste.
    Lei Shi can call me a LFR Hero all they want, I don't need to justify myself :P

    Just run LB/Frost on ST/little cleave (I personally include Primordius in this but I don't go on adds) and then NT/Mage on cleave/multi-dot.

  7. #27
    the mage bomb dots, Living bomb and Nether tempest will both swing around 12 second duration as haste increases.
    It will drop down by half the dot duration, 3 seconds and 1 second respectively. Thus LB swings 10.5 to 13.5 duration and NT 11.5 to 12.5 duration.
    With more haste the time between the ticks becomes shorter and shorter the time spread of the duration also becomes a little shorter... but overall NT in particular will "simply" be 12 seconds in duration....

  8. #28
    Elemental Lord Polarthief's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    8,059
    Quote Originally Posted by namliam View Post
    the mage bomb dots, Living bomb and Nether tempest will both swing around 12 second duration as haste increases.
    It will drop down by half the dot duration, 3 seconds and 1 second respectively. Thus LB swings 10.5 to 13.5 duration and NT 11.5 to 12.5 duration.
    With more haste the time between the ticks becomes shorter and shorter the time spread of the duration also becomes a little shorter... but overall NT in particular will "simply" be 12 seconds in duration....
    I'm actually a little curious how the DoTs can go above their maximum timer.

    More Haste = quicker DoT ticks = shorter duration

    Haste Plateau = Additional DoT tick = duration resets back to normal (e.g., 12s)

    Where is there room for longer duration?


    (Though I've actually seen it a couple times, I legitimately don't understand how it can possibly go above 12s)

    Progression pre-nerfed: [T17] 6/7H; 0/10N

  9. #29
    You gain the first extra tick when the haste reaches 50% of the required level.
    I.e.
    To gain an extra tick on Living bomb 4 ticks on 12 seconds you would need 25% haste to gain 5 ticks in 12 seconds.
    Except you gain a tick as soon as the ROUNDED number of ticks is reached, i.e. not at 5.0 ticks but at 4.5 ticks you get actuallly 5 ticks for the duration of .... as well as you dont need the full 25% haste to gain the tick, but half that at 12.5%
    So 12 seconds / 4.5 ticks = 2.6666667 seconds between ticks, which if you get get 5 ticks is 5 * 2.66666667 = 13.33333 second duration of the dot where refreshing the dot between 10.666666667 seconds and 13.333333333 seconds is optimal.

    Same for NT or any other dot (like Pyroblast dot, Combustion and most any dot on any other class, but NOT ignite!)
    Difference with NT and Combustion though is that they tick every second, not every 3 seconds by default...
    So for NT you get 12.5 ticks in 12 seconds = 0.96 tick time for total duration of 13 * 0.96 = 12.48 seconds where ideal refresh time is between 11.52 and 12.48 seconds

    Though keep in mind (which is why a lot of people say "Haste caps do not matter") that is you refresh your bomb/dot properly the hasted dot "Stacks"
    I.e. if you refresh Living bomb 5 times properly (in the last tick) the game will work the ticks as if the LB was one long dot of 1 minute, not 5 individual ones... Yes you will get 5 explosions, but the # of dot ticks may vary from 25 (5 * 5 at 25% haste) to 26 or even 27 ticks if your overall haste goes over that magic 25% and more and more towards the "next extra tick" at 37.5%

    NOTE: Yes 25% resets the timer to exactly 12 seconds for living bomb, 12.5% gets you the extra tick for one cast but does not make 25 ticks in one minute rather 25 ticks in 5 * 13.3333333 = 1 minute 6.66666667 seconds
    12.5% haste will only get you 60/2.66666667 seconds = 22.5 ticks
    Last edited by namliam; 2013-07-16 at 11:06 PM.

  10. #30
    Is haste evo arcane viable? Does it do as much as mastery? And what about next patch with heavy movement?

  11. #31
    With the new tier haste evo is not viable. It's RoP or IW.

    RoP = Highest possible dps

    IW = More movement friendly.

    Both stack mastery.

  12. #32
    Bloodsail Admiral Saegno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Kansas City, Ks
    Posts
    1,013
    Looking for a suggestion for which build setup to use for H Meg. We are progressing very well on it right up until the second to last rampage where the wyrms are just tearing us a new one. We lack any strong AoE and with me being fire I bring almost nothing on that front.

    So I am going Arcane for this since the movement is limited and it's AoE is miles ahead of fire.
    Since it's a nice mix of single target and AoE I was thinking of the hybrid build, RoP, 9762 haste(which I can hit right on the dot), mage armor(since I will be using AE a lot on wyrms) and LB since the wyrms don't live long enough for NT to make a huge impact and the explosion would be nice.

    Any help on this would be appreciated, going to be working on it either tonight or sunday.

    Edit- Armory is V down there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lohe View Post
    If you're semi-hardcore or semi-casual what's the other half? To me, they're both the same thing.
    Canicus - 577 - Arcane Mage - US Mal'Ganis Horde - 12/14H T16

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Serene View Post
    As Arcane your bombs, whether you take LB or NT, are your highest DPET spells outside of Mirror Images - and personally I find Mirror Images derp around far too much for them to actually live up to their DPET potential.

    Hitting breakpoints doesn't "extend" your DoT, it makes the bomb tick more times in the same period than before. There is no "extra duration" to consider, the duration (more or less) remains the same, so you are gaining nothing but DPS by hitting breakpoints. In Single Target circumstances, bombs are doing ~25-30% of your damage. In multi-dot situations they are usually doing ~50-60%. Now, granted this is because Arcane is currently broken as hell and the only reason it's viable is because of the bomb buff. However, while this may be the case, playing Arcane at the moment IS playing around Bombs and how well you can manage them, especially in multi-target situations.
    Impossible scenario: If you're at 10% haste and 10.01% haste gives you another LB tick, that last 0.01% haste will give you an about 1.8 second longer Living Bomb.

    The bomb duration is never the same, it depends on the haste since the DoT always end where the last tick ends, not at a set duration. (And this would of course be the tick closest, but not above 12 seconds.)

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Megamisama View Post
    (And this would of course be the tick closest, but not above 12 seconds.)
    The tick closest to 12, but ALSO over 12 seconds.... I just reforged in game to 13.95% haste to jump the 12.5% haste of Living bomb giving me a 147.915 damage over 13.17 seconds!!
    And for NT it gives 125.552 damage over 12.29 seconds

    Going just below the 12.5% at 11.8% it gives me 10.74 seconds on 117.944 damage for LB and 116.194 damage for NT over 11.64 seconds

  15. #35
    I am Murloc! Firebert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Colchester, land of the squaddies, UK
    Posts
    5,579
    Quote Originally Posted by Zavri View Post
    And I would strictly use frost armor as arcane. Mage armor doesn't scale, the haste from frost armor is multiplicative granting a scaling bonus to haste.
    Do I REALLY have to post this picture again?



    Frost Armor's only worth it when you've got 14.15% base Haste or more. Otherwise, use Mage Armor for a full Mastery build.
    Last edited by Firebert; 2013-07-17 at 10:27 AM.
    37 + (3*7) + (3*7)
    W/L/Death count: Wolf: 0/1/1 | Mafia: 1/6/7 | TPR: 0.5/3.5/4
    SK: 0/1/1 | VT: 1.5/3.5/5 | Cult: 1/0/1
    Glyphmaster Gunhaver | Avatar by Hasana-chan

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Saegno View Post
    Looking for a suggestion for which build setup to use for H Meg. We are progressing very well on it right up until the second to last rampage where the wyrms are just tearing us a new one. We lack any strong AoE and with me being fire I bring almost nothing on that front.

    So I am going Arcane for this since the movement is limited and it's AoE is miles ahead of fire.
    Since it's a nice mix of single target and AoE I was thinking of the hybrid build, RoP, 9762 haste(which I can hit right on the dot), mage armor(since I will be using AE a lot on wyrms) and LB since the wyrms don't live long enough for NT to make a huge impact and the explosion would be nice.o

    Any help on this would be appreciated, going to be working on it either tonight or sunday.

    Edit- Armory is V down there.
    Just did Heroic Mag tonight with closest to the 9762 break point I could get (was a bit over) and dumped everything else into mastery. I Ranked 8th so i think that build plays very well but I was not on add duty. I would advise against putting an Arcane Mage on adds because their strongest AoE is Arcane Explosion at 4 charges so you have to be right in them risking dropping ice beam in a bad spot. This leaves Flamestrike and Blizzard spam, which are alright but far from strong.

  17. #37
    Dreadlord Cycobi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    In a tree
    Posts
    929
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenbud View Post
    Just did Heroic Mag tonight with closest to the 9762 break point I could get (was a bit over) and dumped everything else into mastery. I Ranked 8th so i think that build plays very well but I was not on add duty. I would advise against putting an Arcane Mage on adds because their strongest AoE is Arcane Explosion at 4 charges so you have to be right in them risking dropping ice beam in a bad spot. This leaves Flamestrike and Blizzard spam, which are alright but far from strong.
    Arcane Charges don't increase AE damage, AE just has a chance to proc Charges, and at 4 charges you should dump ABarrage cos it'll cleave. Also, CoC w/ Glyph > AE.
    I would also omit the fact you ranked 8th because you're padding meters. It's not an argument for or against full Mastery/Haste nor is it an argument for hybrid.

  18. #38
    Bloodsail Admiral Saegno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Kansas City, Ks
    Posts
    1,013
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenbud View Post
    Just did Heroic Mag tonight with closest to the 9762 break point I could get (was a bit over) and dumped everything else into mastery. I Ranked 8th so i think that build plays very well but I was not on add duty. I would advise against putting an Arcane Mage on adds because their strongest AoE is Arcane Explosion at 4 charges so you have to be right in them risking dropping ice beam in a bad spot. This leaves Flamestrike and Blizzard spam, which are alright but far from strong.
    We have piss poor aoe otherwise. We use a lock portal to drop beams and with glyph of AE I'm never more then a step or two away from it.
    Still even with that risk, we aren't dying to beams or cinders, it's purely the adds not dying fast enough that is stopping us from a kill.
    It's worth me trying since as fire I still just bomb and spam AE, so might as well make both of those hit even harder.

    Edit- I should point out that this is 10man.

    Edit2- So what would you suggest then Serene?
    Last edited by Saegno; 2013-07-17 at 11:37 AM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lohe View Post
    If you're semi-hardcore or semi-casual what's the other half? To me, they're both the same thing.
    Canicus - 577 - Arcane Mage - US Mal'Ganis Horde - 12/14H T16

  19. #39
    Dreadlord Cycobi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    In a tree
    Posts
    929
    Quote Originally Posted by Saegno View Post
    Edit2- So what would you suggest then Serene?
    If you're doing Megaera HC progress as Arcane and you're not assigned to adds, it's single target. Haste > Mastery (assuming Meta and 2 RRPM). If you're on add duty (which you shouldn't be for progress, tbh) Mastery > Haste.
    Last edited by Cycobi; 2013-07-17 at 11:43 AM.

  20. #40
    Bloodsail Admiral Saegno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Kansas City, Ks
    Posts
    1,013
    Quote Originally Posted by Serene View Post
    If you're doing Megaera HC progress as Arcane and you're not assigned to adds, it's single target. Haste > Mastery (assuming Meta and 2 RRPM). If you're on add duty (which you shouldn't be for progress, tbh) Mastery > Haste.
    I'm doing it as fire but the adds aren't dying fast enough since we have very little in the means of solid AoE.
    I am not assigned to adds or the boss, however the adds are stop-gating us I figured it couldn't hurt to go arcane for the added AoE.
    Last edited by Saegno; 2013-07-17 at 11:56 AM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lohe View Post
    If you're semi-hardcore or semi-casual what's the other half? To me, they're both the same thing.
    Canicus - 577 - Arcane Mage - US Mal'Ganis Horde - 12/14H T16

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •