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  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by Belisaurio View Post
    Calm down boy!!!
    You need to read some posts, then understand what people are discussing.
    1-There isn't a minority here complaining.
    2-People are discussing about LFR/LFD, some want to remove, some wants to change a little, and others just want to hit his head because they don't want to read this posts ever.

    I'm with casuals that don't like LFD/LFR, and knows that removing a tool can hurt a lot. So, we are just reading posts and thinking some solutions and answers.
    So, you can add some information, or start crying like your last posts, but don't expect anyone to respect your posts or look them in a serious way.
    In my opinion wait to see how Flex raiding works out. It should offer a viable option for pugging that doesn't really exist currently thus relieving the need to run LFR for some people.

  2. #242
    Scarab Lord UnifiedDivide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belisaurio View Post
    1-There isn't a minority here complaining.
    It really is just a minority. Even if you added all the posters on the official forums to all the posters on MMO-C (whether they are for or against, doesn't matter), it is still only a minority. The vast majority don't even touch forums. Hell, I'd bet some don't even know they exist. So yes, it is a minority complaining.

    Sometimes updated...

  3. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by Rushro View Post
    Looking for raid has been a thorn in much of the populations side for some time now. While it is understood that there is still a large amount of players who have found it useful and a great improvement to their monthly subscriptions the fallout it has caused in the higher difficulties has been significant. The gear is often such an upgrade from the previous tier that most non-heroic raiders feel forced to do LFR in order to maximize their characters potential. It is an option whether to do it or not, but by doing so it somewhat spoils the feeling of progression once you jump back into your appropriate raid difficulty. So you have the choice between experiencing the raid how it was meant to be or obtaining welfare gear through means that ruin that experience.

    So the question I ask is this; why is LFR released in the same period of time as the actual raid?

    We already see that it is gated when released, in attempt to let some of the normal/heroic raiders have some time of prestige or to get more than a month out of the subscribers who return to see the new raid and leave. If it is in fact the latter, wouldn't it make more sense to not release LFR at the same time as the actual raid?

    Now this is how it should be changed; LFR should be released in the minor content patches (5.1, 5.3, 5.5) and provide no achievement.

    Doing this will give the players who progress on normal/heroic a well deserved experience of the newly released raid without having LFR taint it. There is nothing rewarding about killing a boss in LFR. I realize there's still a huge difference between killing a boss in LFR and killing a boss in normal/heroic, but the fact is the feeling of progressing through the actual raid is lost. You now know what trash will be like, what traps there will be, what the rooms will look like, the dialogue and lore. I'm sure if you only raid for the progression and could care less about the surrounding raid around you these feelings won't matter as much to you. But to someone who enjoyed raids like Ulduar and Karazahn because of the uniqueness and surprises it held this is everything.

    And this is where the argument "if you don't want it to be ruined, don't do it" comes in. I'm sure I'm not the only person in the world who wants to do everything in their power to help their guild out as much as they can. This includes learning the fights, getting the welfare gear, and killing bosses that drop legendary quest items if you haven't killed it that week already. If you're progressing slower than LFR is being released you feel almost obliged to do LFR or else you're letting your team down. I raid lead, I don't force people to do LFR for the same reason I don't want to, but I do it because I want whats best for the raid out of myself. There's some people who take me up on that lack pushing, but there are other who do because they are in the same boat as me or just don't care about the raid and just want to play with us. Unfortunately we fell behind this tier and my first kill to Lei Shen was in LFR. The fight is pretty much the same, but it felt like a disappointment. Being thrown in with a bunch of random players who you never met and killing a boss you could do one handed, it just felt cheap and undeserving, especially since it's the last boss of the raid.

    Think about it, they blow their entire load in the first month of the new patches release when they release LFR in the same patch. I'd be curious to see just how much the subscription drop off is after the final wing of LFR is released, but I know 3 people off the top of my head who either quit shortly after or continue to log in once or twice a week just to get the rest of their gear. Now these people all have something in common, they don't have much time and LFR is a way for them to see the game progress in a far less time consuming matter. I get that this is something they look forward to, but if they're that uninvested in the game wouldn't having them wait 2 months to cash in on them be an equally financially viable option for Blizzard?

    I know that this will never change and I'm pretty much doomed to repeat my spoiled experience until I eventually put my foot down at the sake of me lacking as a leader, but it was worth a rant just to see if anyone else feels like this is a problem for them too. Thanks for reading the wall of text and let me know if you think this is stupid or I'm just not seeing something right.

    tl;dr release LFR a patch after the raid for it comes out

    PS: if you're going to post after only looking at the tl;dr, try not to assume that I hate LFR. I like what it's there to do, I just don't want to be forced into doing it

    edit: I agree that a patch behind could be too long of a wait, but with they're new release patterns I thought it wasn't that much of a time gap. I still however think it should be released in full 5-6 weeks after the raid is released, I just figured it would be easier to add it in as a minor patch feature. Also, to those who think they're smart by debunking my point of it being released at virtually the same time by saying "lol it is", a week is still the same period of time.

    edit 2: Quit quoting my first line by saying I need to provide evidence for the word "much". If you want your evidence here it is. Even if it was only 1% of the population complaining, that would still be 80,000 people requesting a change. So stop arguing semantics and talk about my actual post subject. Thank you.
    You should add a poll to this thread, as I'm sure you would be pleasantly surprised with the outcome!

  4. #244
    It really is just a minority. Even if you added all the posters on the official forums to all the posters on MMO-C (whether they are for or against, doesn't matter), it is still only a minority. The vast majority don't even touch forums. Hell, I'd bet some don't even know they exist. So yes, it is a minority complaining.
    We don't know that.
    12M of users in WoW, how many of them unsub for LFR/LFD/new easy philosophy of Blizzard? We don't know.
    How many of this vast majority don't like LFD/LFR or just find that this tools needs some fixes? We don't know.
    How many of the actual player-base think that LFD/LFR it's OK? We don't know.


    So, I can say that "we are the vast majority", but I never said that.
    I know that the vast majority of people raiding are in LFR, but like me.
    And I don't know if a popularized tool is synonymy of healthy tool, but (in my opinion), the tool that implemented it's not healthy at all, and I'm here reading and discussing for that.

    In my opinion wait to see how Flex raiding works out. It should offer a viable option for pugging that doesn't really exist currently thus relieving the need to run LFR for some people.
    +1. I've got some hopes in Flex raid. And the new feature to break the barrier of 10/25 man-raids too.
    Last edited by Belisaurio; 2013-07-15 at 02:44 PM.

  5. #245
    Quote Originally Posted by Rushro View Post
    I looked at the first 5 pages of the forum before I posted this. What I saw was plenty of complaining about the in-game store, selling transmog items, and the alliance victory in the war. I have seen plenty of those LFR posts before and most of them are rage threads, I was just trying to give my opinion on it while also considering others opinions.
    If you didn't see any other LFR whinging, you didn't look.

  6. #246
    The Patient
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    I concur on one of your point OP : As long as LFR Mode loot is higher in Ilvl than Normal Mode loot of previous raid, Normal Mode people will feel compelled to do it to maximise their chances.
    As of now LFR Ilvl is calculated to be 1 or 2 points behind normal Ilvl upgraded.
    Throne of thunder LFR mode should have dropped ilvl 494, not ilvl 502, in my opinion.
    That would fix the problem with Normal people going to LFR for stuff.

  7. #247
    I stopped reading after you said LFR has been a thorn in much of the populations side. Fact is it isn't. What you see is a very small but vocal minority while the rest of the players that are happy just keep playing the game and never even go onto forums or even really care that they're there.

    Now I did go back and skimmed through posts and skimmed through your post to get the gist of what you posted which people have already suggested. It wouldn't be good. They already gate the release of LFR by a lot. And if you're worried about having to do LFR to stay competitive and feel like you're not letting down your team then maybe they should just make them share the same lockout instead of pissing off a part of the community that is most certainly larger than the raiding community. It's fine the way it is now. The only thing would be is to maybe allow more drops from older LFR's after the next tier drops but they've already increased the chance at a drop and their are other ways to get up into the current LFR which seems like doing pvp is the best way to go. That could probably be addressed.

  8. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by Tempeste View Post
    Have you ever considered that if people complain about one thing a lot, it means that maybe a lot of people don't like it?
    Have you concidered that if you don't like it maybe others do and it is kinda selfish to demand its removal?

  9. #249
    Not sure if I agree with this.

    So many players don't have access or friends to raid 10 normal.

    This would just induce rage amongst more casual end-game players imo

  10. #250
    Quote Originally Posted by Tempeste View Post
    I don't think you get out of MMO-C and the WoW forums enough. I think every gaming website I've visited that talks about WoW has a large amount of players (obviously ex players) who expressed their distaste for LFR. It's just something I've noticed is usually the #1 complaint for the game outside of here and the WoW forums, although it gets complained about a lot here, too. And I think it's only logical to assume that if you see something get complained about enough from all different kinds of people, players and ex players, it is probably a weakness in the game that needs to be tweaked or fixed.
    In that case pvp needs to go too since LOADS of posts complain about it. And pve aswell, also loads of ppl complaining about that. So I guess we can just shut the servers down, since without pvp nor pve there's really not anything to play.

  11. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rucati View Post
    They already release it after the raid opens for normal. There's no reason for it to be months in advance, would just make gearing up alts harder, in fact it'd make it kind of impossible. If you have an alt with like a 480 ilvl you'd have no way to get up to around 500 cause nobody does MSV/HoF/Terrace anymore, so you kind of need ToT LFR to get there and be able to raid normal ToT to any decent level.

    There's no real need for it to be released later, you say that they should do it but don't really give any good reasons why. I mean, if you can full clear normal before LFR is even released why does it matter if it's released 2 weeks later or 3 months later?
    And why do you think normal pugs are dying out?
    It's easier to just queue up in lfr and get even better gear (than the previous patch normal gear)
    Plus, Flex raiding is coming so if this was implemented it would actually benefit the game cause you get people out of lfr.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by MPA View Post
    In that case pvp needs to go too since LOADS of posts complain about it. And pve aswell, also loads of ppl complaining about that. So I guess we can just shut the servers down, since without pvp nor pve there's really not anything to play.
    Compared to LFR bashing, those topics are next to nothing.
    Last edited by Chaosturn; 2013-07-15 at 04:11 PM.

  12. #252
    Quote Originally Posted by Auxis View Post
    I'm legitimately wondering how LFR taints normal raiders... Can't they just pretend it doesn't exist?
    It's because higher end raiding, where people are operating close to their limits, has evolved into a toxic culture where everyone is expected to min-max or be replaced.

    The problem isn't LFR; the problem is the toxic culture of high end raiding.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
    I hate these casual Fridays ruining it for real Fridays.

  13. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    It's because higher end raiding, where people are operating close to their limits, has evolved into a toxic culture where everyone is expected to min-max or be replaced.

    The problem isn't LFR; the problem is the toxic culture of high end raiding.
    Sounds like you've been playing with the wrong kind of people. Never happened to me in the heroic raiding scene

  14. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by BreathTaker View Post
    As it only related to casuals - how come slower progression is worse for them?
    They don't have much time for game anyway.
    And to all the regular raiders who get extra loot from LFR - they'll not feel mandatory to do LFR finally.
    Regular raiders don't need to do lfr. The difference in loot is minimal, and without his small boos in gear they will still need to learn the fight on normal, and gear means nothing when your raid can't deal with wipe mechanics in a bossfight.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaosturn View Post
    And why do you think normal pugs are dying out?
    It's easier to just queue up in lfr and get even better gear (than the previous patch normal gear)
    Plus, Flex raiding is coming so if this was implemented it would actually benefit the game cause you get people out of lfr.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Compared to LFR bashing, those topics are next to nothing.
    People just need to grow up. I don't like to do lfr, so I don't do it often. maybe with some friends if they have an alt that needs gear faster, or for legendary quest items. If I don't feel like it I just won't do it, and I'm not gonna make 5M topics about how I hate it so it must go. I go with the gear I got from raiding the previous tier and maybe some stuff I bought with valor points, and it's more than enough. And if these "hardcore" raiders and casuals can't manage to stay out of shit or interrupt important spells then LFR is EXACTLY what they need.

  15. #255
    Herald of the Titans Grimord's Avatar
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    LFR taints nothing. Any half decent raider clears it much before all the wings are unlocked.

    And this is coming from someone who, by all means and measures, would be considered a semi-casual (as I only play to raid due to my work schedule, 'cept for weekends).


  16. #256
    Quote Originally Posted by Miralynn View Post
    I can't even fathom. I mean, it's not like I have a job, a family, and adult responsibilities, and would rather spend my game time actually having FUN instead of slaving under the whims of some wannabe dictator half my age.

    Thank god for LFR. Wanna know what to change about it? Not a damn thing.
    Yuuu! So agree
    Field Marshal, YUH, 'nuff said.
    /bonk

  17. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaosturn View Post
    Sounds like you've been playing with the wrong kind of people. Never happened to me in the heroic raiding scene
    Well then, so it will be ok to not do LFR, right?
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
    I hate these casual Fridays ruining it for real Fridays.

  18. #258
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    The problem isn't LFR; the problem is the toxic culture of high end raiding.
    Wouldn't it be easier to reduce LFR ilevel slightly so Normal players don't feel compelled to do it? At least that seems easier to me than asking hundreds of thousands to people to change their personality.
    "I realized it is the struggle itself that is the most important. We must strive to be more than we are. It does not matter that we will never reach our ultimate goal. The effort yields its own rewards." -Data

  19. #259
    Quote Originally Posted by Frogged View Post
    Wouldn't it be easier to reduce LFR ilevel slightly so Normal players don't feel compelled to do it? At least that seems easier to me than asking hundreds of thousands to people to change their personality.
    We're not asking them to change their personalities. They can fume in frustrated anguish and we'll be perfectly ok with that.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
    I hate these casual Fridays ruining it for real Fridays.

  20. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by Frogged View Post
    Wouldn't it be easier to reduce LFR ilevel slightly so Normal players don't feel compelled to do it? At least that seems easier to me than asking hundreds of thousands to people to change their personality.
    A person who is so obsessed with efficency that s/he feels compelled to do LFR for a miniscule advantage and is still only doing normal modes is doing something very, very wrong. The question is if those individuals compulsion should be considered more important then the feelings of 2 million or so LFR users who will very much become second grade citizens (even more so then they are already considered) if you make that change.

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