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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Rucati View Post
    If you don't clear normal before the final wing of LFR opens you're obviously not that hardcore of a raider, so why exactly do you care? There are plenty of guilds who hadn't cleared normal when 5.3 opened, so maybe LFR just shouldn't open until the entire next tier opens, right?

    This is a bad idea, there's virtually no reason to change LFR, especially when all you want to do is push it back in release for *literally* no reason. Honestly, haven't seen a single reason *at all* as to why this should happen.
    You don't have to be hardcore to enjoy the raid in a challenging setting.

  2. #22
    So,you want:

    1) to 99% of playerbase to unsub for 4-5 months while waiting for lfr version? And lot of them wont come back cos they will find some other game? Good thing you dont have Blizz shares, you would ruin them entirely

    2) to special snowflake again?

    Get over it, age of traditional raiding is over the moment lfr was made. There is no rollback. Ever tried to give a child a lollypop and then take it away?

    Just find another game

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Pancaspe View Post
    LFR is damn near perfect as it is.

    No need to change it.
    lol, it's almost perfect, yet you can afk in it, and when was the last time you saw a post that actually said LFR was good or fun?

    LFR does need some changes, let's face it, while it was set up to look like a challenge for the ultra casual players, in truth, most of the people that play it are just people that aren't cut out for normal mode ToT and how often you play is something very very different from skill. Personally I do think there should be about a 2 month wait before LFR is released, but still give these people content. Hell, nerfing the old raids would be a good start. Blizz admitted with heroic scenarios, they are much closer to the design that they were hoping to achieve with regular scenarios, which just goes to show that giving the fan base content that can keep them awake is a lot more compelling then stuff that puts you to sleep, so don't be surprised if changes like this eventually do come.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Rushro View Post
    You don't have to be hardcore to enjoy the raid in a challenging setting.
    You realize that you make *literally* zero sense, right? Like, if I had that picture handy of the "Sense, this makes none" Darth Vader in the ocean thing I would post it.

    So you want LFR to be delayed ~4 months so you can clear it in normal because that's a challenging setting (arguably but we'll go with it). Tell me, does clearing it in LFR make normal easier in some way? You're telling me that because LFR is opened a month after release instead of 4 months after release it makes normal mode easier...? How? Gear? Sort of I guess if you were way behind the tier before, but normal is more about the mechanics than gear most of the time.

    I just want you to understand that your idea makes no sense at all. What you're saying is completely illogical.

  5. #25
    Hey, Rushro, I'm Ellie. I would love to be in a raiding guild. I would absoloutley adore sitting down four to five nights a week and raiding with people who actually cared instead of the scrubs that I dealt with during cata. I would be in LFR, I would be griding for mats, I would be min-maxing myself to my upmost, because to me that is what you should do if you're going to be a serious raider. But I can't, because I can't even get my boss to give me sunday mornings off to go to church and I don't feel that I should make a commitment if I can't upkeep it. So I do LFR.

    Raiders have it so good. You get to be with your guildmates or your friends several times a week, working together to down bosses. With each week you hopefully gain in strength and you down bosses. You get used to the mechanics, you learn. You get a chance at rare mounts, you get awesome titles, you get gear that's gorgeous. You get so much awesome stuff.

    Why do you let LFR make you feel less acomplished? As an LFR player, I don't get to have the feelings you get with your group. I don't get to watch friends grasp their classes and get better. (I remember in cata watching a new paladin join my guild and progress to where he'd meet me for DPS, and that was so much fun to watch. It made me want to get better.) I won't get a Korkorn war wolf, I won't get a sweet title. I don't get to have the feeling of feirce joy of finally, finally downing a boss after working on it for weeks. I get to see the fights, I get to see the storylines, and I have to be thankful for that.

    So, no. I don't think that bumping back LFR a content patch would be awesome. It'd be pretty craptastic.

  6. #26
    I am Murloc! Airwaves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rushro View Post
    You don't have to be hardcore to enjoy the raid in a challenging setting.
    No but you have to commit to a time which more players don't want to anymore. I raided for 7+ years and i know ALOT of (ex)raiders. Out of all of them only 1 still raids the rest of us a more then happy just doing LFR and most unsub between patches so the longer blizzard waits to release LFR the longer they don't get money in there pockets.
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  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    So you would have the DS raid available in LFR only when the MoP expansion launches. That's nonsense and really quite a terrible idea. I'm personally all for Blizzard making it so that no one must run LFR if they don't need to but apart from that, there's nothing really broken about it as is.

    The argument over having raids as exclusive content is settled. The side that wants them to remain exclusive lost. It's time to grow up, stop making one thread after another about it and move on.

    --------------------



    That's fine. Most of the other threads are closed as unconstructive. As this one will certainly be if it gets derailed.
    5.5 =/ 6.0, there's been plenty of post final content patchs in this games time. How else could they make it so that "no one must run it" I thought about having the gear be the same ilevel throughout the expansion, have no tier pieces drop? That wouldn't be fair to the people who want to progress their character through LFR. Having gear that is a direct upgrade from normal mode of the previous tier forces anyone who is semi-serious about their progression to go for that gear.

    As to the "argument" that was apparently settled, I have no idea what you're talking about and my opinion shouldn't be affected by the results of something I didn't even argue against or for.

  8. #28
    I am Murloc! Airwaves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rushro View Post
    5.5 =/ 6.0, there's been plenty of post final content patchs in this games time. How else could they make it so that "no one must run it" I thought about having the gear be the same ilevel throughout the expansion, have no tier pieces drop? That wouldn't be fair to the people who want to progress their character through LFR. Having gear that is a direct upgrade from normal mode of the previous tier forces anyone who is semi-serious about their progression to go for that gear.

    As to the "argument" that was apparently settled, I have no idea what you're talking about and my opinion shouldn't be affected by the results of something I didn't even argue against or for.
    The Item level for next tiers LFR is LOWER then this tiers normal raids. If you don't have atleast full normal tot gear before SoO is out then sorry you aren't a raider.
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rushro View Post
    As to the "argument" that was apparently settled, I have no idea what you're talking about and my opinion shouldn't be affected by the results of something I didn't even argue against or for.
    Please tell me that you are not so oblivious to what you said that you don't understand that you are proposing to keep a raid tier exclusive for a full patch before releasing them in LFR. That's the argument of which I wrote and that's why this is extremely unlikely to happen.

    Practically everyone at Blizzard has indicated that LFR is not being changed at all and won't be going away soon. It's popular except with a noisy forum minority who, in the greater scheme of things, don't really swing that much weight. The people who have a thorn in their side about it barely register when compared with the number of people who run it, enjoy it for what it is and have no major complaints about it.
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  10. #30
    I am Murloc! Airwaves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Practically everyone at Blizzard has indicated that LFR is not being changed at all and won't be going away soon. It's popular except with a noisy forum minority who, in the greater scheme of things
    So? Slap a closed thread on every LFR whine thread. They will get the point and stop making them.
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  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Elliebean View Post
    Hey, Rushro, I'm Ellie. I would love to be in a raiding guild. I would absoloutley adore sitting down four to five nights a week and raiding with people who actually cared instead of the scrubs that I dealt with during cata. I would be in LFR, I would be griding for mats, I would be min-maxing myself to my upmost, because to me that is what you should do if you're going to be a serious raider. But I can't, because I can't even get my boss to give me sunday mornings off to go to church and I don't feel that I should make a commitment if I can't upkeep it. So I do LFR.

    Raiders have it so good. You get to be with your guildmates or your friends several times a week, working together to down bosses. With each week you hopefully gain in strength and you down bosses. You get used to the mechanics, you learn. You get a chance at rare mounts, you get awesome titles, you get gear that's gorgeous. You get so much awesome stuff.

    Why do you let LFR make you feel less acomplished? As an LFR player, I don't get to have the feelings you get with your group. I don't get to watch friends grasp their classes and get better. (I remember in cata watching a new paladin join my guild and progress to where he'd meet me for DPS, and that was so much fun to watch. It made me want to get better.) I won't get a Korkorn war wolf, I won't get a sweet title. I don't get to have the feeling of feirce joy of finally, finally downing a boss after working on it for weeks. I get to see the fights, I get to see the storylines, and I have to be thankful for that.

    So, no. I don't think that bumping back LFR a content patch would be awesome. It'd be pretty craptastic.
    And I'm happy it exists for all the reasons you just gave me. But what it's doing to the people who also progress in normal/heroic is not very fair. LFR may not be perfect in some aspects (toxic attitudes, AFKing, people griefing) but when the stars align it makes for a good experience for the people who have no other choice but to do it, and I like that. When players like myself have to run it in order to obtain upgrades because it's an improvement over last tiers normal mode gear, the experience feels ruined, like walking into a room of people getting ready for a surprise party for you. Sure you get the same event, but it won't feel as what it was meant to be.

    I thought this solution would be for the best for those like you, instead of what other people have mentioned by keeping the gear blue or not allowing legendary quest items to drop. You'd still get the same experience, except the two wouldn't be forced to intertwine.

  12. #32
    I am Murloc! Airwaves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rushro View Post
    when players like myself have to run it in order to obtain upgrades because it's an improvement over last tiers normal mode gear
    did you not read what i said. they are fixing that next patch!

    Your idea will never work or come true so just drop it already.

    And to add. If you haven't killed the last boss on normal mode before the last part of LFR is out then you are not a very good raider and are a casual raider like the rest of us.
    Last edited by Airwaves; 2013-07-14 at 09:36 AM.
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  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Please tell me that you are not so oblivious to what you said that you don't understand that you are proposing to keep a raid tier exclusive for a full patch before releasing them in LFR. That's the argument of which I wrote and that's why this is extremely unlikely to happen.

    Practically everyone at Blizzard has indicated that LFR is not being changed at all and won't be going away soon. It's popular except with a noisy forum minority who, in the greater scheme of things, don't really swing that much weight. The people who have a thorn in their side about it barely register when compared with the number of people who run it, enjoy it for what it is and have no major complaints about it.
    You act as if these minor patches take the same time to release as the major ones. To give you an idea of the time, ToES was released on normal mode on November 13th, 5.1 was released November 27th. And what if it's a minority who complains about LFR? I complain about being forced into it, unlike the people who want it removed from the game. I just ask for it to not be forced upon normal raiders by providing advantages if doing so.

  14. #34
    I think you also missed the point where LFR largely replaced dungeons, thus making it actual content.

  15. #35
    I am Murloc! Airwaves's Avatar
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    I swear. The OP's problem is been fixed next patch but he chooses to ignore what has already been told to him.
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  16. #36
    I'm pretty mixed on OP's attitude. Early on it's "LFR should come out a patch after the normal/heroic mode comes out" and he calls the catch-up dungeons "welfare gear," but then on page 2 he's being much more of a normal human being. But ultimately LFR coming out when it does is fair enough if you ask me. It comes out when the normal raid has been out for a week or two already. Maybe the solution for people running LFR and Normal/Heroic to gear up is to make different pieces drop in LFR that just don't benefit a Normal raider at all. It doesn't really need to be pushed back any though. And frankly, Blizzard says that they think Normal/Heroic raiders shouldn't need LFR to advance, especially after the first tier of an expansion. I kind of agree, considering the gigantic item level disparity between the gear. And it's otherwise identical in terms of stats/function.

    Maybe the real solution is 1) make more loot drop in all difficulties, 2) remove way overpowered trinkets and put those kinds of effects on set bonuses or weapons, 3) remove/reduce weekly lockout to a 3 or 4-day lockout instead.
    1 is something they should have done a long time ago, IMO.
    2 is a way for people to get set bonuses/weapons instead of trinkets that they clearly do want to keep farming LFR for. It might still make people farm LFR but it should be faster if they make trinkets more dull but put all the awesome procs effects into a new set bonus, like 3/5 pieces or something.
    3 is another thing I would do if I were running WOW. I mean they all but admitted that they keep people from burning out on raiding (compared to dungeons) because of the weekly lockout. So it's just an artificial barrier. They even used to have shorter lockouts for 10m raids in TBC, though that was more because 10m raids were easier back then.

    Anyway, point being, there are better ways to fix raiding than punishing people who have to use LFR.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Airwaves View Post
    did you not read what i said. they are fixing that next patch!

    Your idea will never work or come true so just drop it already.

    And to add. If you haven't killed the last boss on normal mode before the last part of LFR is out then you are not a very good raider and are a casual raider like the rest of us.
    I am a casual player, I never claimed to be anything else. I killed Lei Shen on normal 2 weeks after it was released on LFR, nothing spectacular. I raid less than 6 hours a week. But that doesn't mean I should be doing LFR and I don't believe LFR is synonymous with casuals or vice versa. As for the ilevel drop, but there is still the legendary quest chain. If there are no drops to have to worry about like the Sigils, Secrets or Runestones then it will be a good fix. I just didn't want the people who do LFR to feel like they aren't progressing with their characters too

    Quote Originally Posted by Omgarsh View Post
    I'm pretty mixed on OP's attitude. Early on it's "LFR should come out a patch after the normal/heroic mode comes out" and he calls the catch-up dungeons "welfare gear," but then on page 2 he's being much more of a normal human being.
    Sorry, welfare gear has been a term I've heard used and used myself since TBC. It's been used to describe gear that's pretty much handed out and I thought more people used the term.
    Last edited by Rushro; 2013-07-14 at 09:51 AM.

  18. #38
    Why do players care so much about other players experience, why should I give a damn how easy someone else gets his gear, how long it took him and how easy or hard it was. I like LFR the way it is, it's a good addition to WoW due to it's accessibility, allows players to gear up for said raid without having to do old meaningless content and frankly I quite enjoy it every now and then as well. How any of this affects all those LFR whiners is just beyond me, play your own game.
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  19. #39
    Nice!!!, bests answers ever:
    -Plis Unsub.
    -Blizzard don't listen this forum, so just look for another game.
    -LFR is not broken.
    -99% of player-base will unsub (can't believe this words...you are not 99% of people!!!).
    -LFR is not going to change.
    -LFR can't be removed because I like that, move on .

    Can people just use some logic? Every day, in this forum and some others, people are complaining about LFR more than anything else. The criticisms about WoW from others games/industries are focusing inf LFR and how easy is wow (and the pay-method too). So something happens with LFR, just don't ignore that.
    So, peopel trying to figure "solutions" only looking their experience ingame are the first path, and giving a feedback is always useful. If Blizzard don't read any feedback, interview, fan base, etc...they are the only company than don't do that.
    And no, you are not 99% of the player base, you don't know what 8M of users want, or the others 4M that unsubed wanted.
    And yes, Blizzard can remove/change/transform or create new features if they want, they done a lot before.

  20. #40
    I am Murloc! Airwaves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rushro View Post
    I am a casual player, I never claimed to be anything else. I killed Lei Shen on normal 2 weeks after it was released on LFR, nothing spectacular. I raid less than 6 hours a week.
    Then drop the subject. LFR is there to help people like you and your raid team over come not been very good by replacing skill with gear. You didn't didn't read what i said before but.
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