Page 6 of 14 FirstFirst ...
4
5
6
7
8
... LastLast
  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Rushro View Post
    Waiting half a year =/ waiting a month and a half and have the raid be ungated. My solution was me trying to be as compromising as possible while also fixing an unfair problem.
    Dude, don't run lfr if you don't want to. It really is as simple as that.

  2. #102
    Immortal Sigma's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Just outside of Wigan, England.
    Posts
    7,117
    LFR is fine as it is, it serves a purpose. The only thing that needs to be fixed is the elitist attitudes from pricks who want to feel superior to other people simply because they are able to dedicate more time to the game than the majority of the LFR population.

  3. #103
    Get rid of achievements could be one small solution to aid this? Why the hell are they even in our game.
    The problem in removing didn't help any product if they are popular. You can only create another feature for cannibalize the first one. And with this, you have not the clue to do the right thing, because re-do a previous patch can hurt more than anything.
    Improve or change an existing feature is an easy-mode to rebuild a product.

  4. #104
    Another special snowflake thread

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Rushro View Post
    Looking for raid has been a thorn in much of the populations side for some time now. While it is understood that there is still a large amount of players who have found it useful and a great improvement to their monthly subscriptions the fallout it has caused in the higher difficulties has been significant. The gear is often such an upgrade from the previous tier that most non-heroic raiders feel forced to do LFR in order to maximize their characters potential. It is an option whether to do it or not, but by doing so it somewhat spoils the feeling of progression once you jump back into your appropriate raid difficulty. So you have the choice between experiencing the raid how it was meant to be or obtaining welfare gear through means that ruin that experience.

    So the question I ask is this; why is LFR released in the same period of time as the actual raid?

    We already see that it is gated when released, in attempt to let some of the normal/heroic raiders have some time of prestige or to get more than a month out of the subscribers who return to see the new raid and leave. If it is in fact the latter, wouldn't it make more sense to not release LFR at the same time as the actual raid?

    Now this is how it should be changed; LFR should be released in the minor content patches (5.1, 5.3, 5.5) and provide no achievement.

    Doing this will give the players who progress on normal/heroic a well deserved experience of the newly released raid without having LFR taint it. There is nothing rewarding about killing a boss in LFR. I realize there's still a huge difference between killing a boss in LFR and killing a boss in normal/heroic, but the fact is the feeling of progressing through the actual raid is lost. You now know what trash will be like, what traps there will be, what the rooms will look like, the dialogue and lore. I'm sure if you only raid for the progression and could care less about the surrounding raid around you these feelings won't matter as much to you. But to someone who enjoyed raids like Ulduar and Karazahn because of the uniqueness and surprises it held this is everything.

    And this is where the argument "if you don't want it to be ruined, don't do it" comes in. I'm sure I'm not the only person in the world who wants to do everything in their power to help their guild out as much as they can. This includes learning the fights, getting the welfare gear, and killing bosses that drop legendary quest items if you haven't killed it that week already. If you're progressing slower than LFR is being released you feel almost obliged to do LFR or else you're letting your team down. I raid lead, I don't force people to do LFR for the same reason I don't want to, but I do it because I want whats best for the raid out of myself. There's some people who take me up on that lack pushing, but there are other who do because they are in the same boat as me or just don't care about the raid and just want to play with us. Unfortunately we fell behind this tier and my first kill to Lei Shen was in LFR. The fight is pretty much the same, but it felt like a disappointment. Being thrown in with a bunch of random players who you never met and killing a boss you could do one handed, it just felt cheap and undeserving, especially since it's the last boss of the raid.

    Think about it, they blow their entire load in the first month of the new patches release when they release LFR in the same patch. I'd be curious to see just how much the subscription drop off is after the final wing of LFR is released, but I know 3 people off the top of my head who either quit shortly after or continue to log in once or twice a week just to get the rest of their gear. Now these people all have something in common, they don't have much time and LFR is a way for them to see the game progress in a far less time consuming matter. I get that this is something they look forward to, but if they're that uninvested in the game wouldn't having them wait 2 months to cash in on them be an equally financially viable option for Blizzard?

    I know that this will never change and I'm pretty much doomed to repeat my spoiled experience until I eventually put my foot down at the sake of me lacking as a leader, but it was worth a rant just to see if anyone else feels like this is a problem for them too. Thanks for reading the wall of text and let me know if you think this is stupid or I'm just not seeing something right.

    tl;dr release LFR a patch after the raid for it comes out

    PS: if you're going to post after only looking at the tl;dr, try not to assume that I hate LFR. I like what it's there to do, I just don't want to be forced into doing it
    The biggest change would be that the Mods/Curses goons stop creating a daily thread about LFR to bring eyeballs to this forums.

    Or start doing their job and close new thread and redirect ppl to the old one.

    PS: To further pwn the OP, progression guilds already saw the whole content on PTR during raid testing. And to pwn the pseudo media expert making those campaign, 1 word. ABP and NoScript plugin.
    Last edited by ipaq; 2013-07-14 at 12:11 PM.

  6. #106
    The Lightbringer
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Silvermoon City
    Posts
    3,631
    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    LFR needs to be removed.
    "How about no?" (c)

    BC/LK raider ('07-'10)

  7. #107
    Ugh, if you just want alternate ways to gear up for raids just ask for that, but stop asking for LFR restraints. LFR is fine the way it is.

  8. #108
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Tampa Bay, Florida
    Posts
    4,722
    I think LFR should actually be there at launch, not a week or more after. Two things I think that should change though are the following:

    1) For tiers beyond the first, the gear should be at the same level as the old raids, not a step above. This way it provides an alternative instead of the optimal choice. For instance, ToT LFR is 502. HoF/TOES is 496. The ToT LFR gear should have been 496 level to make it equal to the other gear as an alternative.

    2) The achievement should be specific for LFR, which I'm not sure it is. That way there's no ambiguity if you've done it on LFR or normal. Maybe the "wing" achivements should be the ones for LFR only, and the normal achievement is the entire "Throne of Thunder" achievement, for example. So if you've done it on LFR but not on normal yet you'd have: Last Stand of the Zandalari, Forgotten Depths, Halls of Flesh Shaping, Pinnacle of Storms but NOT Throne of Thunder, if that makes sense. Of course then for instance the old tier would have needed separate achievements in the case of TOES, since there's only one LFR for that, but MSV and HOF could stay with their wing achievements for LFR.
    NOBLESHIELD
    Raids & Dungeons Moderator | Twitch Stream | Wayniac#1291


  9. #109
    Stood in the Fire Korbany's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    465
    How about instead of the current LFR, Flexi, Normal, Heroic raid difficulties, they could be replaced with a single ramping difficulty level where the first boss is equivalent to LFR difficulty, and the final boss is equivalent to a hard mode Heroic end boss difficulty with all the bosses in between gradually scaling up between them.

    People could access the raid via LFR, Flexi or traditional preformed group methods, but they would all lead to the same difficulty. That way everybody could try the raid, but only the most skilled would ever get to finish it.

  10. #110
    I am Murloc! Airwaves's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Australia! G-day Mate!... (We don't really speak like that)
    Posts
    5,667
    Quote Originally Posted by Korbany View Post
    How about instead of the current LFR, Flexi, Normal, Heroic raid difficulties, they could be replaced with a single ramping difficulty level where the first boss is equivalent to LFR difficulty, and the final boss is equivalent to a hard mode Heroic end boss difficulty with all the bosses in between gradually scaling up between them.

    People could access the raid via LFR, Flexi or traditional preformed group methods, but they would all lead to the same difficulty. That way everybody could try the raid, but only the most skilled would ever get to finish it.
    Because people hit a brick wall and cancel there sub. That is one way to blizzard to go bankrupt if they wanted to. Worse then the OP's idea.
    Angels and Airwaves
    Aldmeri Dominion - Imperial - Templar - Laethys - High Elf - Assassin - Frostmourne - Orc - Rogue - Sea of Sorrows - Norn - Thief
    Borderlands 2 - Mechromancer - Battlefield 4 - Engineer - Diablo 3 - Wizard

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Belisaurio View Post
    Every day, in this forum and some others, people are complaining about LFR more than anything else.
    What's your point?

    A lot of people around here are whiners who think the game should cater to whatever their playstyle is. It's also true that eople who have complaints are far more likely to be vocal about those complaints than people who are satisfied. And lastly, the number of people who post on wow related forums is a tiny fraction of the WoW subscribers. The "fact" that people here complain about LFR more than anything carries very little weight.

    And let's not pretend that we don't have at least one big "LFR sucks" thread every day around here. The people starting these threads most often have nothing new to bring to the table. Or if they do, most of the time the ideas are hare-brained and show a complete lack of understanding of Blizzard's goals for LFR and why they implemented it in the first place.

    So it's no suprise at all that people tend to give stock responses in yet another LFR thread.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Brewslii View Post
    Instead of continuing to argue, Why not fix LFR with servers? High raid servers with no LFG/LFR and whatever else people complain about. Be pretty cool to see them create something like that and pre expansion servers, vanilla/BC/wrath/cata/Mop whatever you enjoyed you are more then welcome to play on.
    If Blizzard would do this, I'd love it. All of the anti-LFR whiners could shuffle themselves off to their own servers and they could stop bitching.
    Stating an opinion as fact does not make it fact. Opinions are not fact. So don't be stupid and make a fool of yourself by trying to pass off your opinion as fact.

  12. #112
    A lot of people around here are whiners who think the game should cater to whatever their playstyle is. It's also true that eople who have complaints are far more likely to be vocal about those complaints than people who are satisfied. And lastly, the number of people who post on wow related forums is a tiny fraction of the WoW subscribers. The "fact" that people here complain about LFR more than anything carries very little weight.
    Ok, I explain my point:
    One of the mass unsub was at early Cata.
    We didn't know why, but Morhaime said that the mass-unsub was for difficult of raids/dungeons and the fast content consumers.
    The first point, in my opinion, was because wotLK was an easy-path, and changing this with an hard increase in difficult was THE mistake. They reverted back that.
    The second point is the fast content consumed, and in my opinion, I find that easy content+low quantity is the problem in this point. And I can assume that this type of content is focused in LFD/LFR tool, and yes, you can argue that this is my opinion and the problem was only for the quests that were to easy, but I feel that the problem is not in quests, or in partys, or in gear, or whatever you want to believe.

    So, looking for the only feedback that we have (fan-sites), we can only analyze what we have, and the major whiners are focusing in LFR. You can have your own opinion, put a post defending LFR and focus on the "problems" that you see, or nothing because you don't see any problem in wow.
    If you want to know my opinion, I find other problems:
    -Pay method of WoW (p2p) is obsolete and can hurt wow, but more than 2M of users contradicts my own opinion.
    -Graphics can hurt too, but with the new high polygon models, and new racial models, we can solve that issue (until another expansion and the introduction of new technology in MMOs).
    -The difficult tunned progression should be from easy to really hard. Not easy to easy. That eliminates the "fast consumer content" that is hurting now the player-base.
    -New events world-wide is the solution in a popular games, we saw in LoL or SC2 that the streams, companys, pro-gamers can move a lot of people, and events can help a lot.
    -Lore-wise, I want to be the bad guy again, so I want to be an Old Horde Troll in zul'jin brother/son/whatever army.

    But this is just my opinion, and the player-base problems see that the most urgent issue is the LFR/LFD tool, so I focus more in this things than others.
    Last edited by Belisaurio; 2013-07-14 at 01:23 PM.

  13. #113
    I am Murloc! Pendra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Austria
    Posts
    5,101
    "How I think posters that still open LFR-threads, despite the fact that there are already hundreds of them, should be changed".

    LFR is completely fine as it is now.
    Also, it already is delayed enough - in ToT, normal raiders had about a month to kill Lei'Shen until he was killable in LFR.
    If that isn't sufficient for a guild, the problem isn't LFR, but your guild.
    Last edited by Pendra; 2013-07-14 at 01:36 PM.

  14. #114
    They tried to ask the "lesser" raiders to run outdated content back at the start of Cataclysm. It didn't work. It also fails to integrate the raids with the world content, to have the raids so out of sync.

    Consider also the interaction with PvP. They had to strain to keep honor gear from being too good in PvE anyway. Delaying LFR for a tier would make the problem that much worse.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Belisaurio View Post
    One of the mass unsub was at early Cata.
    We didn't know why, but Morhaime said that the mass-unsub was for difficult of raids/dungeons and the fast content consumers.
    The first point, in my opinion, was because wotLK was an easy-path, and changing this with an hard increase in difficult was THE mistake. They reverted back that.
    The second point is the fast content consumed,
    Morhaime later qualified (in an earnings call) that the "fast content" consumption referred to the leveling content. I surmise they had some hope that lots of people would be happy just using all that 1-60 leveling content they had created, not doing end game.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler

  15. #115
    Morhaime later qualified (in an earnings call) that the "fast content" consumption referred to the leveling content. I surmise they had some hope that lots of people would be happy just using all that 1-60 leveling content they had created, not doing end game.
    I remember that...from a tweet maybe?
    So, in my opinion, they are right saying that lvl 1-58 was really fast, but the major unsubs were from lvls 85 that finished the current content and this is what affected at first place the mass unsub.
    The unsubs between patches can contribute in this too.
    Last edited by Belisaurio; 2013-07-14 at 02:18 PM.

  16. #116
    I can't understand why all these "pro elite 1337" raiders want to remove LFR.

    If Blizzard removed LFR so many people would stop playing, or atleast stop raiding, which would lead to only a very very small % of their playerbase actually doing normal/heroic raiding. Which would lead to Blizzard spending very very little time to maybe no time at all actually making raids, instead they would spend most of their dev time to make things for the casuals to do, since they are in a huge majority. It's pretty fucking simple.

    No LFR = 1 raid each 8~ months with maybe 6-7 bosses max.

    They even said the biggest reason they wanted to push out ToT as fast as possible was because the LFR people wanted/needed new content.

    Thanks to all fucking people doing LFR Blizzard can actually justifing spending alot of time working on raids, which means more bosses and better raids for the pros.

  17. #117
    If Blizzard removed LFR so many people would stop playing, or atleast stop raiding, which would lead to only a very very small % of their playerbase actually doing normal/heroic raiding. Which would lead to Blizzard spending very very little time to maybe no time at all actually making raids, instead they would spend most of their dev time to make things for the casuals to do, since they are in a huge majority. It's pretty fucking simple.
    But don't be black or white.
    If Blizzard remove LFR, they need another substitute. I don't find the "removing" the right path to go, maybe another tool that eliminates the "LFR complex".
    If the problem is that only a low % is doing raids, just try another tool to compensate that. If the problem is the "low incentive to pass from LFR to normal modes", maybe they need to change rewards or put other Pugg tools, etc...

  18. #118
    Its a decent idea, i think its unreasonable to say normal raiding guilds that can't clear the dungeon in a month is bad or similar. Many guilds raid 1-2 days a week for just a few hours. To think these guilds can drop 2 progression bosses per progression night is overkill. I don't get why blizzard caters to a playstyle that ultimately is so unreliable that people will sub and unsub for long periods of time once finished.

    Would make more sense to cater to a playstyle that keeps the player engaged and on track for the full expansion. And not give them a quick-path that most humans will take since its the "path of least resistance".

    Personally i can't justify spending 2-3 days in a raid per week doing normal mode encounters i've already beaten on lfr. When they ultimately offer the same rewards, beyond a few pros and cons that even out (scheduled playtimes, player instability, roster issues vs super easymode watered down experience)

    If LFR didn't exist i might bother looking for a raid guild again to feel that journey.

    Right now raiding is like reading Harry Potter for the first time, and then LFR comes around just as you are about to finish the book. And spoils the ending. Not worth the time reading.

  19. #119
    Lfr is working as intended. Do not fix something that isnt broken.

    /end thread. Next

  20. #120
    Mechagnome shanthi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    California
    Posts
    695
    Quote Originally Posted by Rushro View Post
    I just ask for it to not be forced upon normal raiders by providing advantages if doing so.
    And there are plenty of other normal/heroic raiders who are glad LFR exists because it gives them a faster gearing opportunity (at least for the first tier of an expansion). So you're really giving the perspective of a pretty small minority (as opposed to a somewhat larger minority if all normal/heroic raiders agreed with you)...that's fine, but you can't really expect a significant change that would affect many more people in order to benefit many fewer people.

    I'm a heroic raider and I don't like doing LFR and I feel pressure to do LFR at the start of an expansion to gear up as quickly as possible. Your change would be perfect for me and yet I still am not in favor of it, because I don't think people who want some raiding experience but can't commit to a raiding guild should be further marginalized. I accept doing LFR a little bit as a cost of that commitment to a progression-minded raiding guild.
    That is not dead which can eternal lie.
    And with strange aeons even death may die.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •