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  1. #81
    How I think LFR should be changed - It should be removed.
    The people i see in there every fucking time i try it because i don't have a guild and not really like pve all i see is green geared non enchanted non gemmed scrubs.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Rushro View Post
    I've already agreed that another patch could be too long, but I still stand by delaying it and releasing it all at once.



    Except normal and heroic share the same lockout.
    Well gee whiz all the more reason to get rid of.

  3. #83
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coombs68 View Post
    The people i see in there every fucking time i try it because i don't have a guild and not really like pve all i see is green geared non enchanted non gemmed scrubs.
    How can you get green-geared people in an LFR when max level for greens is 437? Oh wait, I know, you just made this up.

    BC/LK raider ('07-'10)

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomana View Post
    How can you get green-geared people in an LFR when max level for greens is 437? Oh wait, I know, you just made this up.
    Because A plate wearer can have a full set of cloth/leather/mail 463 items just sitting in their bags to get into LFR

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    So you would have the DS raid available in LFR only when the MoP expansion launches. That's nonsense and really quite a terrible idea. I'm personally all for Blizzard making it so that no one must run LFR if they don't need to but apart from that, there's nothing really broken about it as is.

    The argument over having raids as exclusive content is settled. The side that wants them to remain exclusive lost. It's time to grow up, stop making one thread after another about it and move on.
    Why is everyone assuming that the last tier will be 1 patch instead of the regular 2 patches they did in this whole expansion?

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Brewslii View Post
    And by your exact logic, you are forced into normal raids to clear heroic so they should also be removed.
    Actually, I do wish I didn't have to run Normal before Heroic, but that's an even stricter requirement than LFR.
    "I realized it is the struggle itself that is the most important. We must strive to be more than we are. It does not matter that we will never reach our ultimate goal. The effort yields its own rewards." -Data

  7. #87
    That something is called whining from a minority (because you know, even all the population of MMO champion does not represent a significant fraction of WoW population). Blizzard already caved in to such whining once and it gaves us early Cata, which resulted in major sub losses.
    Nop. the loses, from Mike Morhaime words where for fast consuming content (LFR/LFD) and difficult. So, major sub losses were from easy content too. And coming from WotLK that was really easy compared to early cata dungeons/raids, it didn't helped the subs-base.

    Those are not "solutions", those are idiocies not taking into account economy, finance, psychology etc... The only thing they take into account is the epeen of the whiner.
    But it is a start no? And the answers are more idiocies than anything that the OP put.

    But unlike some people complaining on forums, they are not totally clueless.
    We are just a fan-site. Our complains and solutions are a feedback that Blizzard can use. They have all the statistics to analyse too, so they will use all the information for improve their own game (with quality, quantity and sales). If they read the feedbacks, and complains, maybe they can see a more global vision, maybe we are wrong with LFR, but for our experience, the bad difficult tunning coming from an easy path progression and the easy content contributed to a mass-unsub.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by MPA View Post
    Why is everyone assuming that the last tier will be 1 patch instead of the regular 2 patches they did in this whole expansion?
    Apperently they said garrosh would be the last boss in this expansion, and they make every even number a raid, so if we kill him in 5.4, there's room for 5.5, but not really for 5.6.
    Not saying it's definitely so, and i don't have a source for it. I just got it told when i asked something similar a couple of days ago.
    Everyone has so much to say
    They talk talk talk their lives away

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by MPA View Post
    Why is everyone assuming that the last tier will be 1 patch instead of the regular 2 patches they did in this whole expansion?
    Blizzard has said quite a few times that it will be the last major content patch, which makes sense since they need to move resources to the next expansion, but if people think there won't be another patch before 6.0 they're in for a surprise. As it looks right now SoO is probably going to last 8 or so months, and they need put something out in that time if they're going to stick to their new release pattern.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Rushro View Post
    Looking for raid has been a thorn in much of the populations side for some time now. While it is understood that there is still a large amount of players who have found it useful and a great improvement to their monthly subscriptions the fallout it has caused in the higher difficulties has been significant. The gear is often such an upgrade from the previous tier that most non-heroic raiders feel forced to do LFR in order to maximize their characters potential. It is an option whether to do it or not, but by doing so it somewhat spoils the feeling of progression once you jump back into your appropriate raid difficulty. So you have the choice between experiencing the raid how it was meant to be or obtaining welfare gear through means that ruin that experience.

    So the question I ask is this; why is LFR released in the same period of time as the actual raid?

    We already see that it is gated when released, in attempt to let some of the normal/heroic raiders have some time of prestige or to get more than a month out of the subscribers who return to see the new raid and leave. If it is in fact the latter, wouldn't it make more sense to not release LFR at the same time as the actual raid?

    Now this is how it should be changed; LFR should be released in the minor content patches (5.1, 5.3, 5.5) and provide no achievement.

    Doing this will give the players who progress on normal/heroic a well deserved experience of the newly released raid without having LFR taint it. There is nothing rewarding about killing a boss in LFR. I realize there's still a huge difference between killing a boss in LFR and killing a boss in normal/heroic, but the fact is the feeling of progressing through the actual raid is lost. You now know what trash will be like, what traps there will be, what the rooms will look like, the dialogue and lore. I'm sure if you only raid for the progression and could care less about the surrounding raid around you these feelings won't matter as much to you. But to someone who enjoyed raids like Ulduar and Karazahn because of the uniqueness and surprises it held this is everything.

    And this is where the argument "if you don't want it to be ruined, don't do it" comes in. I'm sure I'm not the only person in the world who wants to do everything in their power to help their guild out as much as they can. This includes learning the fights, getting the welfare gear, and killing bosses that drop legendary quest items if you haven't killed it that week already. If you're progressing slower than LFR is being released you feel almost obliged to do LFR or else you're letting your team down. I raid lead, I don't force people to do LFR for the same reason I don't want to, but I do it because I want whats best for the raid out of myself. There's some people who take me up on that lack pushing, but there are other who do because they are in the same boat as me or just don't care about the raid and just want to play with us. Unfortunately we fell behind this tier and my first kill to Lei Shen was in LFR. The fight is pretty much the same, but it felt like a disappointment. Being thrown in with a bunch of random players who you never met and killing a boss you could do one handed, it just felt cheap and undeserving, especially since it's the last boss of the raid.

    Think about it, they blow their entire load in the first month of the new patches release when they release LFR in the same patch. I'd be curious to see just how much the subscription drop off is after the final wing of LFR is released, but I know 3 people off the top of my head who either quit shortly after or continue to log in once or twice a week just to get the rest of their gear. Now these people all have something in common, they don't have much time and LFR is a way for them to see the game progress in a far less time consuming matter. I get that this is something they look forward to, but if they're that uninvested in the game wouldn't having them wait 2 months to cash in on them be an equally financially viable option for Blizzard?

    I know that this will never change and I'm pretty much doomed to repeat my spoiled experience until I eventually put my foot down at the sake of me lacking as a leader, but it was worth a rant just to see if anyone else feels like this is a problem for them too. Thanks for reading the wall of text and let me know if you think this is stupid or I'm just not seeing something right.

    tl;dr release LFR a patch after the raid for it comes out

    PS: if you're going to post after only looking at the tl;dr, try not to assume that I hate LFR. I like what it's there to do, I just don't want to be forced into doing it
    Instead of continuing to argue, Why not fix LFR with servers? High raid servers with no LFG/LFR and whatever else people complain about. Be pretty cool to see them create something like that and pre expansion servers, vanilla/BC/wrath/cata/Mop whatever you enjoyed you are more then welcome to play on.

  11. #91
    I don't see how LFR keeps anyone in game. You do it, mindlessly watch stuff die whether you participate or not, get some loot and it's over. Other than maybe during the first week, there is no progression, no discovery and mostly insults and name calling in chat from the impatient people who think they know better. I objectively cannot understand how LFR can be the reason anyone would continue to play WoW.
    Mind you, I think it was a necessary addition to the game. Opening the content to the majority of players. However I believe it should only exist for the previous tier content, while Flex Raid will replace it for current content. With the exception of the last tier of the expansion, where it would be added, gated, during a small patch (5.5 for example).

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Terridon View Post
    Apperently they said garrosh would be the last boss in this expansion, and they make every even number a raid, so if we kill him in 5.4, there's room for 5.5, but not really for 5.6.
    Not saying it's definitely so, and i don't have a source for it. I just got it told when i asked something similar a couple of days ago.
    Yes, and the large content patches are the patches that bring a new raid tier, a new pvp season and maybe some new quest hubs for dailies. Those have been 5.0, 5..2, and 5.4 when it will release. After all those "big" patches also came the small ones, with little content, but I'll rephrase my question then. Why is everyone assuming that there will be no minor content patch after the last large content patch?

  13. #93
    Instead of continuing to argue, Why not fix LFR with servers? High raid servers with no LFG/LFR and whatever else people complain about. Be pretty cool to see them create something like that and pre expansion servers, vanilla/BC/wrath/cata/Mop whatever you enjoyed you are more then welcome to play on.
    Jum, I like that idea^^
    Normals-Hardcores-preHardcores at the same server would be nice. More streams, new competition, new hype in raiding modes thatn can attract pro-players and at the same time sponsors and propaganda!!!
    There are some problems, because server-first in a non High Raid server is another attraction, or achievement server-wise.
    Another problem is the division that can increase between servers with that model, If now we are divided with raid-difficult, imagine with low-high raid servers.
    With some fixes and maybe a new feature to help in that, has potential.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by MPA View Post
    Yes, and the large content patches are the patches that bring a new raid tier, a new pvp season and maybe some new quest hubs for dailies. Those have been 5.0, 5..2, and 5.4 when it will release. After all those "big" patches also came the small ones, with little content, but I'll rephrase my question then. Why is everyone assuming that there will be no minor content patch after the last large content patch?
    Ah. misread it a bit, thinking you asked for a 5.6.
    I have no clue to why people suddenly think there shouldn't be a minor patch. Think we will have one too :P
    Everyone has so much to say
    They talk talk talk their lives away

  15. #95
    The Insane det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rushro View Post
    I've already agreed that another patch could be too long, but I still stand by delaying it and releasing it all at once.
    Then you just have a different design concept than Blizzard. Is that what it boils down to?

    I am sure that even at Blizzard they don't happily agree on everything. I bet there are even ppl at Blizzard who would rather not have LFR at all.

    But I suppose they have lead an educated discussion and very likely pulled up numbers and analysis of players behaviours. Did they come to the the right conclusions? I don't know.

    What I do now is that at least they talk and decide on the basis of data and the fact that they are experienced game designers of over 20 years with 3 huge franchises behind them. Are they infallible? Of course not.

    Do I trust them more than a the posters here who all have shiny nicknames but that is all I know about them going "This and that should be so and so because this is why I think it is" - even when it sounds conclusive (which it often does not)?

    Of course not. Just like I wouldn't trust them to fix the brakes on my car or re-wire my house.

    Below exactly the kind of post I mean.

    Quote Originally Posted by Coombs68 View Post
    How I think LFR should be changed - It should be removed.
    The people i see in there every fucking time i try it because i don't have a guild and not really like pve all i see is green geared non enchanted non gemmed scrubs.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    One cause is a cognitive bias called projection bias. Essentially living inside your own head your entire life makes it exceedingly difficult to understand how others do not also live your same life, think your same thoughts, and hold your same beliefs. In many cases it's quite frustrating to try to empathize and understand why you yourself may not be the center of the universe, which generally results in one 'acting out' in various ways.
    So, in short: the internet.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Belisaurio View Post
    Jum, I like that idea^^
    Normals-Hardcores-preHardcores at the same server would be nice. More streams, new competition, new hype in raiding modes thatn can attract pro-players and at the same time sponsors and propaganda!!!
    There are some problems, because server-first in a non High Raid server is another attraction, or achievement server-wise.
    Another problem is the division that can increase between servers with that model, If now we are divided with raid-difficult, imagine with low-high raid servers.
    With some fixes and maybe a new feature to help in that, has potential.
    Get rid of achievements could be one small solution to aid this? Why the hell are they even in our game.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Zubacz View Post
    I don't see how LFR keeps anyone in game. You do it, mindlessly watch stuff die whether you participate or not, get some loot and it's over. Other than maybe during the first week, there is no progression, no discovery and mostly insults and name calling in chat from the impatient people who think they know better. I objectively cannot understand how LFR can be the reason anyone would continue to play WoW.
    Mind you, I think it was a necessary addition to the game. Opening the content to the majority of players. However I believe it should only exist for the previous tier content, while Flex Raid will replace it for current content. With the exception of the last tier of the expansion, where it would be added, gated, during a small patch (5.5 for example).
    I actually thought of something similar to that too, but I figured something like that would receive even more backlash than what I've already gotten...

    I'm with you though, I personally don't enjoy one second of LFR, but I appreciate the fact that Blizzard added it for those who don't have much of a choice or time.

  18. #98
    OP, I think I'll just leave this here for you. That should answer your silly notion pretty succinctly.

  19. #99

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by lawow74 View Post
    OP, I think I'll just leave this here for you. That should answer your silly notion pretty succinctly.
    Waiting half a year =/ waiting a month and a half and have the raid be ungated. My solution was me trying to be as compromising as possible while also fixing an unfair problem.

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