1. #1
    Stood in the Fire Fiercon's Avatar
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    [Frost] - Damage issues

    Hello everybody,

    I'm raidleader of a small group of players and last week an old companion rejoined with us. As former raidleader and concentrated player I assumed a passable performance of him but got a tad bit disappointed. I'm not the one to judge from 2 raid-evenings but I'm very interested in your thoughts as to what my friend could do better:

    These are yesterdays logs and the mage in question is Fromage. I consider myself a passable player and would have attested him the better skills, so I'm pretty sure he is doing something either severely wrong or suffering from "bad" equipment (although I wouldn't consider 498 as being extremely bad).

    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...omage/advanced is his page.

    I appreciate any constructive feedback you can give in terms of what has to be changed - be it statwise or (which is more important I'd guess) playstylewise.

    Please keep in mind: We are talking 30%-50% performance of other players in the raid so I don't think it's some random missing enchantment. Sure equip might account for a lot but it will not double or triple the damage.

    Thanks in advance guys!
    Fiercon
    Last edited by Fiercon; 2013-07-12 at 10:40 AM.

  2. #2
    Hello Fiercon,

    yes there are a some things you can see in the logs. I can just advise to point your mage to the sticky post "[Mage] *OFFICIAL* Help my DPS thread" and perhaps read once more a guide.

    But just some obvious points to his Jin'rok fight:
    - Uptime of "Rune der Kraft" is only 48% (Tab Buffs gained). Definitly too low and do not use RoP, use "Hervorrufung" for this fight. Try to reach an uptime of 95%+.
    - Uptime of magebomb (in this case "Lebende Bombe") is only 57,9% (Tab Damage by Spell). 95%+ is definitly possible
    - Fromage (And some other guys in your raid) are not taking any potions (german "Tränke") at all. In some raids they are mandatory (well at least in our ). You can prepot them (taking one before the fight begins) and one during the fight.

    Hope this helps for the start

    /matul

  3. #3
    Bwah, bloody germans! :P

    Looking purely at his Jin'rokh fight:

    His Living Bomb uptime is 02:25 (57.9 %) which is really REALLY low, i suggest him using an addon to track it these are some addons he can use

    NeedToKnow : http://www.curse.com/addons/wow/need-to-know
    Mage Nuggets : http://www.curse.com/addons/wow/mage-nuggets
    DoTimer : http://www.curse.com/addons/wow/do-timer

    Gear

    Weapon Enchant : I suggest using Jade Spirit
    Wrist : 180 Intellect enchant if he can afford it
    He does not have a Belt Buckle

    For reforging i suggest he uses http://www.askmrrobot.com/

    Talent wise

    I suggest he uses Blazing Speed, Presence of Mind is in my opinion a waste of GCD for frost, it's amazing for fire tho.

    Flameglow is Meh, and in my opinion should only be used in heavy AoE fights, i myself am running around with Temporal Shield cause i know most of the fights and i can use it to heal myself up when needed. ( Plus its off the Global Cooldown )

    Cauterize is good for him considering he doesn't know most fights in there, as soon as he knows most fights and doesn't get suprised by mechanics anymore, i suggest going Greater Invis.

    Living Bomb is a good option, personally i use Nether Tempest and the reason can be found here : http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...ou-Quick-Guide

    That's pretty much all i can find! I hope my fellow mages can explain stuff i haven't covered!

  4. #4
    High Overlord Adeltor's Avatar
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    Your friend has 2 terrible trinkets, and awful gear overall. He's missing Wrist enchant and a Belt Buckle - these two are not such a big deal BUT he's using Windsong enchant on his weapon, instead of Jade Spirit - that's really a bigger deal. His gemming looks right at first sight, however his glyphing looks wrong to me. By no means you want to glyph frostfire bolt as frost, this is just a way to make your bolts look frostfireish, which as you may have figured out is BS. tell him to glyph water elemental instead.

    But basicly what i'm seeing here at first sight is a way undergeared player. This gear used to be good on 5.0. You should really get your friend work more in that direction, aka buying old VP items, 496 at least or so. Buy that Yu'lon trinket instead of a blue trinket and do more lfr, to at least remove the items which are under 483 ilvl. Of course if he doesn't know how to play the spec, he won't do good but by looking at his armory i can't really tell if he does or not.


    EDIT: Just saw matalla's post, try to make him fix that. Use Invocation and as markdead has suggested use addons to track bombs and buffs. He has to have close to 100% uptime on the bomb and 100% uptime on Invocation, that's a big difference. I don't know how matalla found your logs as there is no link, but good job, that's really helpful. On that gear level i'd also use Nether Tempest instead of LB.
    Last edited by Adeltor; 2013-07-12 at 11:12 AM.
    .
    Quote Originally Posted by zomgDPS View Post
    I want to feel the zomg in my dpspants when I throw pyros at someones face. How do you keep that feeling of 'zomg' in your pants while still nerfing throughput?

    Sig by Shyama!

  5. #5
    His loggs can be found in the following sentence: These are yesterdays logs and the mage in question is Fromage. only These is clickable Adeltor!

  6. #6
    Hi,
    I'm not a mastered mage, but overall,imho, he should be using Nether Tempest talent, even as a Frost. Also, he isn't properly glyped, he is suposed to only cast instant frostfire bolts, so frostfire glyph is useless.
    He should glyph Icy Veins, unglyphed, Icy veins are useless during BL. I chekced the logs and he used unglyped ivy veins during your Herosim, so useless Icy Veins during BL.

  7. #7
    He hasen't bought the SPA-trinket, with his low amounts of haste this is an excellent trinket until he manages to get some RPPM ones.
    As I think you see he is missing bracers enchant and beltbuckle, that makes a difference.
    At his gearlevel crit > mastery so he is rolling with too little crit to not be messed up with rng once in a while.
    One thing I noticed is that his uptime on Living Bomb is sub-60% on Jin'Rohk, that's not even acceptable. Living bomb needs a >90% up-time.
    He is rubbish at using his bombs correctly, when using frostbomb it needs to be used on CD and the others need full uptime.
    Better usage of bombs = more FFB = More DPS.
    Also on Jin'Rohk he's using rune of power with less then 50% uptime, just have him use invocation or if he can't even properly evocate then IW.
    Other than that I suppose he just needs to be more reactive, better at using pools on Jin'rohk, learn to multidot with NT etc.

  8. #8
    Stood in the Fire Fiercon's Avatar
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    Thank you very much guys - I'll be sure to forward this to him and see which things can be changed fast and what requires time.

    If you got anything more, keep it coming!

    Thanks again

  9. #9
    As the others said the biggest problem is likely the lack of uptime with bombs and invocation/rune. Typically living bomb is the worst choice for frost because you stack haste and the explosion doesn't benefit from that. He also should be using the Icy-veins glyph, cant remember the exact haste point but im pretty sure that under heroism he's GCD capped.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Shawni View Post
    Typically living bomb is the worst choice for frost because you stack haste and the explosion doesn't benefit from that.
    Thats wrong.
    LB scales with haste, even the explosion.
    So LB is the best bomb for singletargetfights.
    For 2 or more u take NT.

  11. #11
    Dreadlord
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    Just for the record. DoTimer was a very good and useful addon, but it is dead and not usable anymore. It´s replace chronobars seems to be dead, too (not working on current PTR 5.4).

  12. #12

  13. #13
    I haven't looked at his gear, but the biggest problem I see is that he has 40% crit on his ice lances. This means he is hitting ice lance very often when he doesn't have a proc of Fingers of Frost. Without the proc this spell hits for more than 6x less, total waste of a GCD. On Jin'rohk, FoF proced 13 times, he had 13 crits, and he used ice lance 20 more times. Also the uptime of Brain Freeze is pretty high, so he's not reacting to that proc. Ice lance can be one of his top damage sources, he's not using it correctly. Other thing would be his uptime of living bomb needs a lot of work.

  14. #14
    Bloodsail Admiral Frost1129's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akraen View Post
    I only need one add-on to DPS well:

    http://www.curse.com/addons/wow/tellmewhen
    I'll second this. TMW is amazing, and the mage from Method(starts with a V...can't recall the entire thing) has his TMW string posted up. Includes every boss debuff / buff in TOT for easy tracking (and stuff like trinket/meta/potion/hero times)

  15. #15
    Dreadlord
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    Using TWM too but only for the most important buffs and cds. Find it pretty useful to have an addon like dotimer or chronobars as a backup.

  16. #16
    @Akraen, you should post your Frost string again for TMW. I'm too tired to search the threads lol.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Frost1129 View Post
    I'll second this. TMW is amazing, and the mage from Method(starts with a V...can't recall the entire thing) has his TMW string posted up. Includes every boss debuff / buff in TOT for easy tracking (and stuff like trinket/meta/potion/hero times)
    Could you tell me where I can find that string

    I done it before using a premade command for weak auras. Tmw is the same thing right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Validity View Post
    If rogues become shit, all they can become is a different type of shit.

  18. #18
    Bloodsail Admiral Frost1129's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkm View Post
    Could you tell me where I can find that string

    I done it before using a premade command for weak auras. Tmw is the same thing right?
    Here you go!

    http://pastebin.com/Ky4JdXNU

    It's for fire, but it's trivial to switch the fire specific things to frost.

  19. #19
    Stood in the Fire Fiercon's Avatar
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    Again, thanks a lot guys. My mage went over this thread and i think he gota Good load of input from it.

    Let's see what this thursday brings...

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