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  1. #1

    Shadowstep vs Burst of Speed 5.4 in PVP

    So, what are people's thoughts? I'm becoming more disillusioned with step the more I use it - historically it's been great for two reasons; eating traps and focus-step-kicks. The problem is, any decent hunter will root you before trying to land a game-breaking trap so I'm rarely getting a chance to step my healer. It's true that Narrow Escape will be cloakable next patch, but you'll still only be able to step 33% of the traps (assuming you're not out of LoS or otherwise CC'd or didn't use step offensively or cloak offensively).

    As for step-kicks, how many kills this season have you made thanks to a step-kick? I rarely ever have step available during kill opportunities because I've had to use it to connect with the kill target after they've used a mobility talent (disengage, safeguard, heroic leap, leap of faith, portal, gateway, displacer beast, transcendence etc). The times I could have stepped, it hasn't been needed - smoke bomb and blind are enough (as is all the other CC brought into the game).

    The only other benefit I can think of is it sometimes lets you get back on your target after a z-axis knockback (though not even this is guaranteed thanks to LoS issues).

    In 5.4 the alternative is a talent with no cooldown that you can literally spam. 170% speed whenever you're not connecting with your target, refreshable after a GCD if you get slowed.

    Are the three reasons to take shadowstep enough to make people sacrifice the extra mobility a spammable BoS brings? I can't help but think shadowstep is a relic of pre-cata gameplay that people only take because it used to be very strong. It's sad to say but imho, all the new abilities introduced over the last two patches have made it subpar in comparison to 5.4 BoS. I might take it on Blade's Edge vs teams with a hunter but no offensive casters/dk/rdruid, but I'm not convinced.
    Last edited by Dcruize; 2013-07-10 at 04:44 PM.
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  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Dcruize View Post
    As for step-kicks, how many kills this season have you made thanks to a step-kick? I rarely ever have step available during kill opportunities because I've had to use it to connect with the kill target
    This is a big problem for Rogues taking step. If you do use it for kicks or even defensively, your uptime on the target (or ability to connect) reduces drastically.
    Last edited by Snuggli; 2013-07-10 at 04:55 PM.

  3. #3
    To be honest, with at 15 BoS, rogue mobility is going to be insane. I feel like its way better than step. I have run into a few mut rogues using in arenas and they fly around without a care. The defensive mobility along with the recoup buff is a big boost for rogues too. Going to be frustrating getting a hold of a rogue as a melee.

  4. #4
    Giving subt more CPs/globals by removing the requirement to rupture will be a boost as well. It will be interesting to see how they compare to ferals next patch.
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  5. #5
    step will still be a lot better against huntard teams, but bos will be a good option for others

  6. #6
    I'd be interested in hearing the reasons why you think step would be better - I'm really not sure myself so it would be useful to hear the arguments for it
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  7. #7
    Shadow Step is baed, mkay, and you should take BoS cause Shs is baed, mkay ?

    And you can't kite a melee around a pillar with shs.

  8. #8
    You are making good arguments against SS.
    Im still running with it because its just branded in my fingers that i need to step/kick healers
    and step the disengages/blinks and all that. Its also usefull on z-axis maps in case you get knocked
    (wich 5/11 classes can do nowadays...) or just to troll opponents by jumping down / stepping up when they follow.

    But as you said, SS is probably more a habit then a strong mobility talent.
    I guess ill try to be hard on myself and try out BoS for atleast 2 weeks next patch,
    I have a feeling I will fall in love with it. Ill miss SS though. /sadface
    Last edited by biggischkris; 2013-07-11 at 06:27 AM.

  9. #9
    Stood in the Fire Wootylicious's Avatar
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    your uptime on the target (or ability to connect) reduces drastically.
    Assassination might be about uptime, but sublety not so much. Sublety will be better off with stepkicking and controlling other team and only delivering damage with dance when its needed. ( when target is immobile anyways )

    Maybe they need to make shadowstep clear roots or something or atleast work whilst rooted..

  10. #10
    Played some BGs last not on DK and got kited all day by rogues with burst and shurikens. Was totally stupid, a rogue that would not come into melee. Only going to get worse....

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Wootylicious View Post
    Assassination might be about uptime, but sublety not so much. Sublety will be better off with stepkicking and controlling other team and only delivering damage with dance when its needed. ( when target is immobile anyways )

    Maybe they need to make shadowstep clear roots or something or atleast work whilst rooted..
    But are you actually getting to step-kick nowadays and have it make a difference to the game? I haven't had a rogue team play against me on any of my characters and benefit from a step-kick, but admittedly that's because none seem to be queueing (met rogue teams three times in 112 games of 3v3 last week).

    For assassination BoS is massive, but I can see subtlety benefiting from crazy mobility almost as well. With the buffs to backstab/hemo we might have more opportunities for a kill immediately after a failed dance (instead of at the moment where you just sigh and go back to peeling for 50 seconds).

    Having Step clear roots would definitely make it more appealing. However, the biggest issue I have at the moment with Step is it's very hard to get your target into a state where you can kill without using a gap closer. You need that ability to connect after the target uses one of the new defensive mobility talents from Cata/MoP. If you've used your step to connect, you can't then step-kick.

    What I also noticed going from BoS to Step was the issue of recovering from a failed kill/bad fear when you end up away from your pillar. If you used step to get there, you're in trouble as you waddle back to safety while two players turret damage into you. As someone pointed out above, step is awful if you need to kite around a pillar or catch someone around a pillar. If you get rooted/stunned and your target manages to LoS you, Step is worthless unless you happen to have a friendly player in the right direction. BoS puts you straight up to 170% speed which I've often found was enough to reach the target and shut them down until my partners catch up and deliver a kill.

    I played one game this season where I was trying to catch a frost mage on 5% health who was kiting around the boxes in Dalaran (before the steps were added). Their healer was locked down in Africa and the mage's other DPS ran over and typhoon'd me off the edge - this put me in LoS of the mage so I could Step onto him mid-air and kill. I was really impressed at the time with Step but with hindsight, the mage would easily have died if I had BoS because I would have connected about 15seconds earlier and not spent half the game trying to coordinate Step with both dance and full root DR.
    Last edited by Dcruize; 2013-07-11 at 01:41 PM.
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  12. #12
    Herald of the Titans Naxere's Avatar
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    15 Energy Burst of Speed is going to be amazing. Just the ability to be remove snares at will is huge.

  13. #13
    Stood in the Fire Wootylicious's Avatar
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    I dont mind the waddling part myself so BoS doesn't offer me much, both of those talents leave you sitting in roots.

  14. #14
    Back when Shuriken Toss did baller damage you would be surprised at how effectively I was able to use even the higher energy-costing Burst of Speed to kite melee into the ground during 2vs2. Literally kited a Feral and DK simultaneously just by spamming BoS and ST. BoS is still effective in duels against certain classes. I still don't think BoS will be taken very often outside of Random Battle Grounds.

    Adding a cool down to BoS, but removing energy cost, and also making it break roots (think of Monk's "Tigers Lust") would definitely put it up there with Shadow Step I think.
    Last edited by achromatickang; 2013-07-11 at 05:52 PM.

  15. #15
    Where do you see narrow escape cloakable? On wowhead it still shows as physical. Or it's the talent and I can't find the debuff.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post
    Where do you see narrow escape cloakable? On wowhead it still shows as physical. Or it's the talent and I can't find the debuff.
    It's a patch change for 5.4 - "Narrow Escape's root effect is now a nature spell (was a physical spell).", it will be a big help!
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  17. #17
    I've stuck with CnD this tier (only playing casually at 2.1k granted). Step is really redundant for me now, it was so strong before when mobility wasn't such a crippling issue, but now a stepkick can take you right out of the game. I've adjusted my playstyle to play more conservatively since we're so gimped in MoP and constantly seek restealths between Dances, so I get a good mileage out of CnD most games. plus, the synergy with Nerve Strike can take the other team out of the game on demand and absolutely destroy a kill attempt.

    BoS looks ridiculously strong for 5.4 though. I definitely think SS will be the worst of the three in that tier. I expect flaming for persevering with CnD, but I think the OP hit the nail right on the head when he/she said that Shadowstep is a relic of pre-Cata gameplay. PvP is a vastly different animal now and Shadowstep has just been nerfed over and over since 2.1 - the cooldown, the damage boost, the root breaker, working with Prep. the JOKE talent we have left over now should be baseline, and we should have an alternative mobility talent that tier imho.
    I think i can give up choose talent in this level?
    because if i am not choose this level。 i can have 20% blood more than choosen..
    GREAT BLZ.
    warlock now became a guy use 5 level talents VS other 6 level.

  18. #18
    The Lightbringer Ermahgerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thisnamesucks View Post
    To be honest, with at 15 BoS, rogue mobility is going to be insane. I feel like its way better than step. I have run into a few mut rogues using in arenas and they fly around without a care. The defensive mobility along with the recoup buff is a big boost for rogues too. Going to be frustrating getting a hold of a rogue as a melee.
    Burst of Speed is already extremely good at 30 energy cost. It's basically a free cost considering you gain 10 energy per second and it lasts for 3 seconds. The GCD it takes for burst of speed to recharge basically already makes up for the cost and it's already EXTREMELY hard to catch rogues when they spam burst of speed.

    They should at least change back how it worked in 5.1 or something, where if you're rooted, burst of speed will remove the root instead of giving you speed increasement. But no, now you'll be able to stick to your target 24/7 just like ferals. Are you happy now?

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Emfg View Post
    Burst of Speed is already extremely good at 30 energy cost. It's basically a free cost considering you gain 10 energy per second and it lasts for 3 seconds. The GCD it takes for burst of speed to recharge basically already makes up for the cost and it's already EXTREMELY hard to catch rogues when they spam burst of speed.

    They should at least change back how it worked in 5.1 or something, where if you're rooted, burst of speed will remove the root instead of giving you speed increasement. But no, now you'll be able to stick to your target 24/7 just like ferals. Are you happy now?
    Not quite like ferals, even with BoS rogues have to sit in roots rather than spend 1 GCD on an action with no cooldown.
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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Erenax View Post
    15 Energy Burst of Speed is going to be amazing. Just the ability to be remove snares at will is huge.
    its pretty op on ptr.. i never switch it out... getting out of slows is too good, with snd its basically spammable for nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shahada View Post
    The devs aren't stupid.

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