View Poll Results: Elemental's current state In your opinion

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  • Elemental is OP(top caster)

    23 21.50%
  • elemental is fine atm

    30 28.04%
  • Elemental requires small damage tweaks

    27 25.23%
  • Elemental requires large damage nerfs

    10 9.35%
  • Don't nerf ele you'll hurt PVE bro

    17 15.89%
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  1. #21
    Brewmaster Murderdoll's Avatar
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    If you are getting pwned by Ascendance, you need to learn what a CC is. Its that simple. You allow a major DPS cooldown to stomp you, thats you being dumb.

    I think the RNG aspect of it needs to be fixed. Sometimes you can do insane damage, sometimes you cant, it just needs to be put in a nice medium.

    Its not just Shamans though, burst in PVP has been a problem most of this expansion.

  2. #22
    The Lightbringer Ermahgerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoGhost View Post
    let them have their moment. theyve been underpowered for the last 5 seasons.
    That doesn't justify a thing, though.
    /
    Wasn't blizzard planning on having Lava Surge only proc on Flame Shock CRITS, rather than the static chance of proccing (which I believe is like 30% -.-)?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Murderdoll View Post
    If you are getting pwned by Ascendance, you need to learn what a CC is. Its that simple. You allow a major DPS cooldown to stomp you, thats you being dumb.

    I think the RNG aspect of it needs to be fixed. Sometimes you can do insane damage, sometimes you cant, it just needs to be put in a nice medium.

    Its not just Shamans though, burst in PVP has been a problem most of this expansion.
    Whenever I watch an ele shaman stream, he barely kills anyone during ascendance, and if he does, it's because of instant procs rather than the LvB spam from ascendance.

    I agree burst is insane this expansion, but shamans in particular are in the OP burst spot right now, namely ele shamans of course simply because of how stupidly RNG it is. I would've preferred wotlk burst-style which at least was somewhat counterable.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by stickyjam View Post
    So having seen no changes on the PTR to nerf ele's insane RNG burst, I was wondering what the MMO-CHAMP community felt about elemental shamans.

    The random nature of some of their burst makes me hate them more than hunters, yet I see nothing to change them. The amount of random deaths i see where the ele's just like "hehe procs bro" is mad. Its like a mage who doesn't need deep freeze and there isn't deep freeze to warn them to use cds.


    So why they no nerf ele
    So basically your complain is this: "Shamans used to be freekills, now they have a chance to kill you if some crazy rng happens thus you ask for them to be reverted to be freekills 100% of the time".
    "Really? You want a reward for killing an orc? As in fame and riches and noble steeds? Back in my day killing orcs WAS the reward!" Gunny

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    If people have to be forced kicking and screaming to do reward-less, danger-less content, where the only challenge is trying to stay awake, something is wrong with the content, not the players.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Emfg View Post
    That doesn't justify a thing, though.
    /
    Wasn't blizzard planning on having Lava Surge only proc on Flame Shock CRITS, rather than the static chance of proccing (which I believe is like 30% -.-)?
    All this would likely do is make crit the best stat for ele in PvP. If it was, then we could get over 30% chance to proc off flameshock, which is the case now. It would be more instant cast lava bursts and more EB's and Fulmination crits...

    Elemental has been a burst and RNG spec for as long as I can remember. When things proc its great, when they don't they don't do much damage. I can't tell you how many times I've got a warrior or other class down below 25% and just couldn't finish him due to no procs and no crits on LB or fulmination. Other times I can take someone down from 40-50% to dead before they even know what hit them.

    I admit it is probably extremely frustrating fighting a shaman with 4+ flame shocks rolling just instant casting LvB, but most of this happens in random BGs, or sub 1800 arena. If you're in a bg and an Elemental is spreading flame shock like the plague yeah, you will likely have a rough game. Try telling your healers to dispel or people who can purge to purge their procs.

    There are ways to counter a lot of elementals burst. Purge/dispel lava surge procs. Dispel flame shock. And purge/dispel SWG if the giant elemental ascendance is chasing you around a pillar with your tail between your legs. I'm not saying you can counter everything or even dispel everything, but stop acting like there is nothing that can be done. Most teams I play against have either a priest or shaman on their team so it can and should be done. However, I can't tell you how many times (2K+ mmr) that teams, or healers I should say, will let me get 4 flame shocks rolling w/o even trying to counter it. Also If the shaman is rolling 4+ flame shocks then they likely aren't using earth shock or frost shock, not to mention no dispels from the other team. Healers also tend to forget things like pets, gateways, guardians, totems, etc.. that a shaman can flame shock for more procs.

    EotE is a random proc and is mostly to blame for insane burst. Most of the times the procs get wasted however, since getting a proc at high health doesn't do much. EotE doesn't have a ICD and there is no way to predict when it will go off. You could get it to proc off a LB only giving you an extra few K damage, or you could get it to proc off a crit EB giving you MASSIVE damage. RNG is RNG. Nerf EotE anyways, I prefer Ancestral Swiftness myself .

    I agree burst is stupid this expansion and yes Elemental can do some of, if not the most burst in the game. It's also stupid the amount of instant casts in the game now. The amount of gap closers melee have now is also stupid. The game needs to be taken back a step, but it doesn't seem like Blizzard is at a stage to do this yet. Whoever they nerf is going to get fucked (either casters losing their instants or melee losing their mobility). In a perfect world both would be toned down together, but we all know that blizzard will never get that right. With out the instants casters can't do much damage. With out all the gap closers melee can't hardly stick to a target.

  5. #25
    Stood in the Fire
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    Okay so mages with 5 pieces of 140k+ pyros in a row suddenly is ok, and 5 pieces of 70k+ lava bursts is not? Yes eles get a bit more of them but their damage is HALF of the pyros.

  6. #26
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Ele shamans are fine, they are doing exactly what they should be doing.

    I'd prefer it if they changed the LvB proc talent to something else good but not so random - but that's about it. It's not their damage that is the issue, and not even their burst exactly - but more that since their burst is all instant procs, it's invisible until it happens. By contrast, a frost mages burst involves a shatter - devouring plague is prelude to a shadowpriests burst - chaos bolt casts mean you are about to die - but random high-powered procs are hard to counter, and impossible to predict: that's the problem (predictability/counterability, not damage).

    Then again, if they didn't have something they could instant-cast while getting tunneled they wouldn't be viable, so they do need a proc system to work in pvp - it's a trickier issue then many of you are making it out to be - and they aren't at the top of my list of pvp things to fix anyways.

    Edit: Was just thinking about how I might 'fix' the issue. Remove the proc-based aspect of it - make it something that just happens every ~10 seconds or something - every 10 seconds, your next LvB cast is instant and does not invoke the cooldown. That would mean they could time it so that they cast LvB just before the talent resets, and follow an LvB with an instant LvB - but they can't then have a third - I think that solves the super-high burstiness that bothers people.
    Last edited by Yvaelle; 2013-07-15 at 05:24 PM.
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  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    Nerf Chaos Bolt.

    But really it would be better for the game if they just nerfed lava burst damage by 20% taking elemental out of pvp. Then they can just buff restoration shamans to put them back in their former glory.

    Then they should buff Warlocks and Mages, you know the actual skilled pure caster classes. That would be a step in the right direction.
    Not sure if serious or joking :P

  8. #28
    Enh and Ele both need burst nerfs desperately.
    "It's not what we don't know that gets us into trouble; it's what we know for sure that just ain't so." ~Mark Twain
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  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Mortalomena View Post
    Okay so mages with 5 pieces of 140k+ pyros in a row suddenly is ok, and 5 pieces of 70k+ lava bursts is not? Yes eles get a bit more of them but their damage is HALF of the pyros.
    But you are forgetting a very important detail....T H E Y A R E N O T M A G E S. ( and we all know what happens with everything that is not a mage....GC nerfs the shit out of them because after 8 years of wow, he still keyboard turns and clicks the spellbook )

  10. #30
    The Lightbringer Ermahgerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blitond View Post
    All this would likely do is make crit the best stat for ele in PvP. If it was, then we could get over 30% chance to proc off flameshock, which is the case now. It would be more instant cast lava bursts and more EB's and Fulmination crits...

    Elemental has been a burst and RNG spec for as long as I can remember. When things proc its great, when they don't they don't do much damage. I can't tell you how many times I've got a warrior or other class down below 25% and just couldn't finish him due to no procs and no crits on LB or fulmination. Other times I can take someone down from 40-50% to dead before they even know what hit them.

    I admit it is probably extremely frustrating fighting a shaman with 4+ flame shocks rolling just instant casting LvB, but most of this happens in random BGs, or sub 1800 arena. If you're in a bg and an Elemental is spreading flame shock like the plague yeah, you will likely have a rough game. Try telling your healers to dispel or people who can purge to purge their procs.

    There are ways to counter a lot of elementals burst. Purge/dispel lava surge procs. Dispel flame shock. And purge/dispel SWG if the giant elemental ascendance is chasing you around a pillar with your tail between your legs. I'm not saying you can counter everything or even dispel everything, but stop acting like there is nothing that can be done. Most teams I play against have either a priest or shaman on their team so it can and should be done. However, I can't tell you how many times (2K+ mmr) that teams, or healers I should say, will let me get 4 flame shocks rolling w/o even trying to counter it. Also If the shaman is rolling 4+ flame shocks then they likely aren't using earth shock or frost shock, not to mention no dispels from the other team. Healers also tend to forget things like pets, gateways, guardians, totems, etc.. that a shaman can flame shock for more procs.

    EotE is a random proc and is mostly to blame for insane burst. Most of the times the procs get wasted however, since getting a proc at high health doesn't do much. EotE doesn't have a ICD and there is no way to predict when it will go off. You could get it to proc off a LB only giving you an extra few K damage, or you could get it to proc off a crit EB giving you MASSIVE damage. RNG is RNG. Nerf EotE anyways, I prefer Ancestral Swiftness myself .

    I agree burst is stupid this expansion and yes Elemental can do some of, if not the most burst in the game. It's also stupid the amount of instant casts in the game now. The amount of gap closers melee have now is also stupid. The game needs to be taken back a step, but it doesn't seem like Blizzard is at a stage to do this yet. Whoever they nerf is going to get fucked (either casters losing their instants or melee losing their mobility). In a perfect world both would be toned down together, but we all know that blizzard will never get that right. With out the instants casters can't do much damage. With out all the gap closers melee can't hardly stick to a target.
    Next patch secondary stats will be going up by -a lot-. And by a lot I mean 34% haste, 51% mastery and about 20% crit as ele sham. If they were to have flame shock proc off of only crits it would at the least help somewhat, but I honestly doubt it would bring crit up a lot.

    Also the only time I recall ele being RNG was... well... only during MoP, really. I've played ele in cataclysm aswell and I can't say they were really RNGish back then. You had to actually wait for Lava Burst to come off of CD, rather than multi-dotting flame shock and waiting for Lava Surge to proc every 3 seconds.

    Another thing that could remedy the RNG burst ele's have is to give Lava surge the same treatment as the afflicition warlocks nightfall proc change next patch, where only 1 corruption is capable of proccing nightfall, so it wouldn't matter if you multi-dotted or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mortalomena View Post
    Okay so mages with 5 pieces of 140k+ pyros in a row suddenly is ok, and 5 pieces of 70k+ lava bursts is not? Yes eles get a bit more of them but their damage is HALF of the pyros.
    Lolwat? The highest pyro I've ever seen in PvP was in 5.2, which was a 110k pyroblast. In 5.3 I haven't seen that many fire mages at all, and the only ones ive seen was on a livestream where the guy was critting 60-70ks with them.

    Stop overexeggerating
    Last edited by Ermahgerd; 2013-07-15 at 09:29 PM.

  11. #31
    Stood in the Fire Edx's Avatar
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    Not just nerf (e.g. -x% damage or whatever) but redesigning the spec. Completely relying on RNG to land kills is retarded.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Murderdoll View Post
    If you are getting pwned by Ascendance, you need to learn what a CC is. Its that simple. You allow a major DPS cooldown to stomp you, thats you being dumb.
    shamans have a ton of ways to get out of and avoid cc, its part of the reason healing shamans were so over valued in seasons where warlocks dominated.
    " I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"

  13. #33
    Herald of the Titans inboundpaper's Avatar
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  14. #34
    I think Elemental and Enhancement are fine. They're glass cannons, so if they're going to die faster than anybody else, they should be able to do some decent things before dying.

    As a class, we get crammed in every aspect, and when they finally decided to give us a buff, people complain. If you can't kill a shaman then you most certainly have problems. I main a shaman and secondary a paladin, monk and druid. Compared to the other hybrids, we don't have many things, that's why Blizzard buffs our damage, but everybody's too blind to see it's how the class is.

    I should also mention the fact that "both" (yeah, that's right, BOTH) of our damage specs have been completely and utterly un-viable from a competitive aspect during the last couple of seasons because of Restoration, and the one time they have a chance, everybody jumps on the anti-shaman wagon and attacks us.
    Last edited by BlissfulBlithe; 2013-07-16 at 10:22 AM.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by BlissfulBlithe View Post
    I think Elemental and Enhancement are fine. They're glass cannons, so if they're going to die faster than anybody else, they should be able to do some decent things before dying.

    As a class, we get crammed in every aspect, and when they finally decided to give us a buff, people complain. If you can't kill a shaman then you most certainly have problems. I main a shaman and secondary a paladin, monk and druid. Compared to the other hybrids, we don't have many things, that's why Blizzard buffs our damage, but everybody's too blind to see it's how the class is.

    I should also mention the fact that "both" (yeah, that's right, BOTH) of our damage specs have been completely and utterly un-viable from a competitive aspect during the last couple of seasons because of Restoration, and the one time they have a chance, everybody jumps on the anti-shaman wagon and attacks us.
    I agree, if you are really that scared of shaman it's because you can't CC or watch for their CD's properly. Atop of them always being mediocre at best. It's a nice fit to the ele and enh specs, so let it be.

  16. #36
    Elemental ?! A melee class should eat an elemental shaman for breakfast. Probably not warrior cause they suck ass atm.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Day Dreamer View Post
    Elemental ?! A melee class should eat an elemental shaman for breakfast.
    that's it. rng can be a beast (let me know how often you get 5 lvb out of 1 cast ) however the instants are needed or you can't do anything against melees.
    wow pvp is in a bad state imo to much stuns, interrupts, ccs, instants, gap closers.
    every class which doesn't have something from this list wants it. ask enhancement shaman. #1 issue for them.
    don't get me wrong I dislike strong burst in arena too as dieing after 5s in fight is not fun. but that's the game atm and at least elemental shamans burst is random and you can kill it by dispelling and cc when in ascendance or simply focus that elemental.

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