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  1. #21
    Healing parses are bullshit. Thats the whole story about. Sadly, healers can read nothing good or bad out of it. You must find out by math, forums, or simply by yourself which way to heal is the best.

    In my opinion: 100% uptime of lb shout be your target. Its not simply the hps generated by it, its the freecast-mechanic aswell.

    Rank 50-1 works that way: "heh fellow healer!"
    "What?"
    "Please dont heal next hc fight. Just make sure, no one is dieing. I want to log me!"
    "Okay i play anub hc then."

  2. #22
    Your mistake is assuming that rank 1 = good healing practices. Nothing could be farther from the truth. This late into an expansion, some people pushing ranks are doing what ever it takes to get the highest numbers (including having raid members take avoidable damage) in order to crank their HPS as high as possible.

    That does not mean you should necessarily follow their example for your guilds progression (unless you too have everything on farm and just trying to out rank them).

    In general, LB uptime should be as close to 100% as possible for both the stable tank healing it provides and more importantly for OoC procs. That is a good healing practice.
    Last edited by Keiyra; 2013-07-15 at 06:10 PM.

  3. #23
    High Overlord Soraka's Avatar
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    I'll go ahead any speculate that the rank one person you're looking at would have done (marginally) more hps if he had kept LB up 100% of the time.

  4. #24
    The Lightbringer Raugnaut's Avatar
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    In terms of both HPET and mana efficiency, Lifebloom is the strongest druid heal (except for Tranq) out of all heals. Even 1 stack of lifebloom will put out more healing then a cast of Rejuvenation.
    Anyone ever notice how the sun seems to shine silverish now? Didn't it used to shine goldish? PM me if you've noticed this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moounter View Post
    I think your problem is a lack of intellect.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Keiyra View Post
    Your mistake is assuming that rank 1 = good healing practices. Nothing could be farther from the truth. This late into an expansion, people pushing ranks are doing what ever it takes to get the highest numbers (including having raid members take avoidable damage) in order to crank their HPS as high as possible.

    That does not mean you should follow their example for your guilds progression (unless you too have everything on farm and just trying to out rank them).

    LB uptime should be as close to 100% as possible for both the stable tank healing it provides and more importantly for OoC procs. That is a good healing practice.
    I think before everyone hops on the bandwagon of hating on top ranking players, it's important to note that not EVERY top rank was from someone cheesing. Good healing practice, as you described it, can get you there too.

    For example, as I posted earlier, I got a world 10th rank on my guild's first H Durumu kill last night. I had a 100% uptime on Lifebloom and Harmony, was keeping SM/WG on CD as best I could and was making sure to try to utilize my SotF in the most appropriate way possible each time I SM'd. I wasn't asking players to stand in damage (that'd be ridiculous for progression) and I didn't ask my partner healer to heal any less (he's a trial, I can assure you he was trying very hard to do as good as possible). I just healed to the best of my ability. I healed any damage I saw. I kept my raid alive as best I could. And my reward was a world rank.

    I'm not saying that "omg top ranks are godz ctrl c ctrl v their playstyle fanboi" but I'm saying that anyone who ranks high ranked for a reason. Sometimes it's the reasons you said, but sometimes, it's just because they played their class very well and got amazing results. Sometimes, it's alright to follow their example. I was very aggressive with my RJ which I can afford to do because I have 16k spirit + meta proc. That's something that I would recommend to someone looking at my parses to better themselves to follow. I would recommend to that person to try to push as many RJ as possible and to be as intelligent about placing them as you can be.

    Essentially, don't bow down and do exactly what every top ranking druid does, but at the same time, don't be a fool and reject perfectly good healing parses simply because they did good on them. Take everything with a grain of salt.

    Just my two cents, at least.
    Last edited by Aoroc; 2013-07-15 at 05:20 PM.

  6. #26
    I think if you are healing with a healer that is as good healer as you, more or less same gear ilvl and he is playing a competitive class, you will probably not rank. When I am healing with our Monk (very good and XPed healer) it's very hard for any of us rank (besides Tortos). When I healed one time with our ilvl 505 disc priest that was rerolling, I ranked top 20 in 5 fights. Heal is Zero Sum, is not like DPS, you just can heal the max damage that your raid takes, and if you partner is a good healer, he will not let you rank, and you will not let him rank.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Aoroc View Post
    I think before everyone hops on the bandwagon of hating on top ranking players, it's important to note that not EVERY top rank was from someone cheesing. Good healing practice, as you described it, can get you there too.

    For example, as I posted earlier, I got a world 10th rank on my guild's first H Durumu kill last night. I had a 100% uptime on Lifebloom and Harmony, was keeping SM/WG on CD as best I could and was making sure to try to utilize my SotF in the most appropriate way possible each time I SM'd. I wasn't asking players to stand in damage (that'd be ridiculous for progression) and I didn't ask my partner healer to heal any less (he's a trial, I can assure you he was trying very hard to do as good as possible). I just healed to the best of my ability. I healed any damage I saw. I kept my raid alive as best I could. And my reward was a world rank.

    I'm not saying that "omg top ranks are godz ctrl c ctrl v their playstyle fanboi" but I'm saying that anyone who ranks high ranked for a reason. Sometimes it's the reasons you said, but sometimes, it's just because they played their class very well and got amazing results. Sometimes, it's alright to follow their example. I was very aggressive with my RJ which I can afford to do because I have 16k spirit + meta proc. That's something that I would recommend to someone looking at my parses to better themselves to follow. I would recommend to that person to try to push as many RJ as possible and to be as intelligent about placing them as you can be.

    Essentially, don't bow down and do exactly what every top ranking druid does, but at the same time, don't be a fool and reject perfectly good healing parses simply because they did good on them. Take everything with a grain of salt.

    Just my two cents, at least.
    In my opinion this is wrong. A world rank NEEDS a few things: 1: very high raid damage that punishes you're group particularly. In the most cases this happens when something went wrong. 2: good gear with high int for output and high spirit for persistance. 4: Good damage from you're group shortens a fight for better stats in wol. 5: and most important: an good amount of unbalance of skill between you and your partner-healer (spoken for 10-men).

    If you get point 5 + 1 and you manage somehow to kill the boss you will get a high rank for sure. The other things are optional. As a semiprogressional readleader for me it is a warning-signal when a healer ranks himself. It informs me that the other healer is a risk for the whole group.

    I have two super nice healers and both give there best every fight. Sometimes they are disappointet that they dont get ranks at all besides one of them dies in a accident. Then its my job to remind them that wol-ranks are for dps ONLY. For heal its bullshit.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Whitestrife View Post
    In my opinion this is wrong. A world rank NEEDS a few things: 1: very high raid damage that punishes you're group particularly. In the most cases this happens when something went wrong. 2: good gear with high int for output and high spirit for persistance. 4: Good damage from you're group shortens a fight for better stats in wol. 5: and most important: an good amount of unbalance of skill between you and your partner-healer (spoken for 10-men).

    If you get point 5 + 1 and you manage somehow to kill the boss you will get a high rank for sure. The other things are optional. As a semiprogressional readleader for me it is a warning-signal when a healer ranks himself. It informs me that the other healer is a risk for the whole group.

    I have two super nice healers and both give there best every fight. Sometimes they are disappointet that they dont get ranks at all besides one of them dies in a accident. Then its my job to remind them that wol-ranks are for dps ONLY. For heal its bullshit.
    You are wrong. If someone plays their best they can get a rank without the raid doing anything stupid and you shouldn't be discouraging your healers from trying to perform better to get ranks. That just seems counterproductive.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by vow1152 View Post
    You are wrong. If someone plays their best they can get a rank without the raid doing anything stupid and you shouldn't be discouraging your healers from trying to perform better to get ranks. That just seems counterproductive.
    yeah. Thats your opinion and i am fine with it. But let me say something to my point of view: In my opinion its a simple math: If you're dps and tanks play right, and you and you're teamhealer play on the same level as well (even if its a high level) its not possible to get a rank. Full health bars are full health bars. And even if your grp get damage you share your hps with your fellow mate and so your output gets demolished :-).

    My healers should play on there max level every try (what they do anyway) but they should spit on nonsense like heal-ranks in wol if its making them sad, my job is it to let them know that they should be happy. Every try no one has ranked himself is a statement for well played as a healer.

    But lets stop here thats getting to far from topic :-)

  10. #30
    Whitestrife is right. If you are healing with a good healer, in any fight besides Tortos, you will not Rank. Your partner, Monk/Disc Priest and you will do the same or more hps then you depending of the fight. You will not rank cause healing is a zero sum game. Your healing + Your partner healing = damage the you raid took. Your healing just increase to rank in top 20 if your partner is lacking healing.

    We killed horridon 2 weeks ago with me and a monk healing. Both of us didn't rank, of course, we did almost the same healing. We are both good. This week our rerolling undergeared disc priest did the fight with the monk, since i got HLG and they both need heroic version, our monk ranked 6th in WoL. cause our disc priest sucked at healing.

    If you healing mate not underperformed, died, is undergeared, or play a not competitive healing class (like shaman in most fights), you will not rank, not between top 20. You can rank TOp 100 depending of your class representation, but high ranks come with a lack of healing of your partner, it beeing intentional or not.
    Last edited by AvatarM; 2013-07-15 at 07:07 PM.

  11. #31
    This thread is about the importance of the uptime of Lifebloom, not about how your other healers needs to suck in order to rank. Cut that out. I don't understand how this question could be asked in the first place, but I can end this quickly and we can go on with our lives.

    You put Lifebloom up before the pull and keep it up with regrowth, time your Regrowths with boss melee hits so it doesn't overheal much. Switching Lifebloom to someone taking heavy sustained damage and then switching it back to the tank before it expires is only 2 gcd's and is an hps increase. Examples are Frostbite, Cinders, Volatile Pathogen, Helm of Command. There are probably more but reading this thread has made me a little dizzy and I need to go lay down. That's about it to max your efficiency with Lifebloom. Oh I forgot, you fucking get free regrowths, how you could possible think to give that up is beyond me.

    TLDR; Rejuv uptime/spread > Lifebloom ?
    TLDR; no
    Last edited by Karashote; 2013-07-15 at 08:31 PM.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Dangerfield View Post
    I realize this, I still thought 100% LB uptime was a healing increase over chucking out more rejuvs onto the raid though.
    It is a healing increase, but much like the mushrooms, it takes setup. The Druid healing style is extremely flexible, and getting yourself locked into ideas like "LB must be up 100%" because a guide told you to isn't always going to end up the way you wanted. You need to know what the spells do and how you can use them to their maximum. You can watch DBM timers and make sure you have a 3-stack cast 14 seconds before a big ability is going to land on the tank, then let it bloom and follow it up with a Swiftmend. It's the same idea as planting mushrooms so that you are ready to heal the raid when it's called for.
    Last edited by Tarazet; 2013-07-17 at 06:46 PM. Reason: removed incorrect SotF reference

  13. #33
    The value of lifebloom is that it blooms for a spike of healing precisely at times you are overtaxed to the point you can't find the time to refresh it.

  14. #34
    There are two different people on WOLs
    1) Hey guys great first kill on Durumu. O hey Joe! You ranked 50th on WOL!
    2) Hey Guys, since we have Durumu on farm , lets see if we can get a few ppl ranked. Bobby, you single tank it, Sally you sit in that fire half the fight and Joe you spam heal and we will throw any CDs we can on you to help your thoroughput.

    WOL isn't the end all be all for how good a healer you are. 2 weeks ago my 10 man group downed 5 heroic bosses in one night. 3 were for the first time. The following week I stepped out and let a monk heal instead. He did SIGNIFICANTLY more heals according to WOL, but the same group of ppl only downed 3 heroic bosses, one of which I had to come in to help after 8-9 wipes and we one shot with me in there. My replacement was the only change to the group. Keeping ppl alive is our job. If you are using non-metered spells like Iron bark, moving out of damage and playing smart, you might not rank... but you will kill bosses.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Tricksterjim View Post
    There are two different people on WOLs
    1) Hey guys great first kill on Durumu. O hey Joe! You ranked 50th on WOL!
    2) Hey Guys, since we have Durumu on farm , lets see if we can get a few ppl ranked. Bobby, you single tank it, Sally you sit in that fire half the fight and Joe you spam heal and we will throw any CDs we can on you to help your thoroughput.

    WOL isn't the end all be all for how good a healer you are. 2 weeks ago my 10 man group downed 5 heroic bosses in one night. 3 were for the first time. The following week I stepped out and let a monk heal instead. He did SIGNIFICANTLY more heals according to WOL, but the same group of ppl only downed 3 heroic bosses, one of which I had to come in to help after 8-9 wipes and we one shot with me in there. My replacement was the only change to the group. Keeping ppl alive is our job. If you are using non-metered spells like Iron bark, moving out of damage and playing smart, you might not rank... but you will kill bosses.
    You can also do borderline exploitative things like having your bear tank use Glyph of Frenzied Regeneration, which makes him receive 40% more healing whenever it's up..

  16. #36
    Ranking has sort of ruined the fun of raiding. Most high ranks are due to cheesy playing, and it's blizzard's fault I think. They should design encounters in such a way that padding aoe damage meters contributes to killing bosses, like A'lar would do with multidotting. (add deaths reduce boss hp)

    If there is a way to exploit a tool to look good on meters, players will find ways to do it, whether or not it actually helps the raid kill bosses.

    on topic: It's already been said but while it's possible that forgoing lifebloom could make you look better on healing meters, it is strictly inferior to making effective use of lifebloom in the real world of warcraft, it's a very mana efficient healing tool, it heals for a bunch, it's very easy to keep up, and it gives you free regrowths to refresh mastery neatly.


    If you want to talk to me about wow theorycrafting or anything really: Eranthe#1639

  17. #37
    The people generalizing that ranks take no skill are just as wrong as those that think that they define it....

    Very few Druids can do what Owld does, even if given the "opportunity".

    As for ranking in general, people also are fooling themselves if they think it takes anything more radical than NOT overhealing. That's all the "opportunity" is... That means progression, OR continuing to reduce healers as you gear up. Our healers rank quite often, but we do nothing more than just dropping to 5 healers (except Jin'LoL and Horrible) to make farm even somewhat interesting and not a snoozefest. No special tricks, no one standing in fire, no exploits.

    As for LB, a good Druid will have 80-90%+ uptime when it matters. When you are talking late teir farming, tanks are so geared, the fights are so well known, and people are so relaxed it ins a bad idea to use those logs as a measure of how to play. Always try to use progression logs, often using similar progressed/geared guilds is also the best route.
    Last edited by Sprucelee; 2013-07-17 at 08:01 PM.
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  18. #38
    It's very sad that this thread is about ranking and not about healing. For people who think ranking doesn't matter you're wasting a lot of words on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raugnaut View Post
    Even 1 stack of lifebloom will put out more healing then a cast of Rejuvenation.
    Even counting the bloom this is wrong-- horribly, horribly wrong.

  19. #39
    Please refer to my post above. I thought I put this thread to rest. Stop talking about ranking and shit in a thread about Lifebloom importance.

  20. #40
    Oh god it's already happening. 5.4 buffs and suddenly idiots start flocking to druids

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