1. #1

    Seeking some advices for my Assassination Rotation

    Hello Everybody,

    Since i'm on a very boring project presentation i decided to create this image ( on excel ) in order to ask some advices on my rotation.

    since i cant post images, im splitting the link to my imageshack bank

    img42.imageshack.us/img42/7306/yu2w.jpg


    Usually i follow this model on combats like Council of Elders,Tortos,Megaera,Durumu the Forgotten,Iron Qon,Twin Consorts and Lei shen.

    On the other bosses ( Jin'rokh the Breaker,Ji-Kun,Primordius and Dark Animus ) i use a variation where i dont use pre pot and stealth at the start. but basically its the same on step 3/4 forward.

    Actually i'm ilevel 526 and with that rotation i can pull a good amount of burst damage at the start of the combat. But even with that, i would like to seek some advices of more players .


    Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
    Link for others..

    img42.imageshack.us/img42/7306/yu2w.jpg

    I'm far from the person to ask, but I've read some topics that you should open with mutilate from stealth because of the reduced energy cost and chance for a blindside proc.
    "Clearly every aspect of one's life, from financial stability to social popularity, to sexual prowess can be boiled down to 4 numbers: One's Arena rating" ~ Xandamere

  3. #3
    Why not ambush since it hits harder than mutilate? I mean, the only advantage of using mutilate would be the blindside i believe

  4. #4
    First off nice job with this graphic. I think its a good way to talk about opening rotations.

    Mutilate is better and some could probably argue ambush does more damage, but garrote is most definitely not the thing to use. You are using garrote as an opener because venomous wounds will proc sooner than later with putting up rupture at a later time. In your rotation rupture comes pretty quickly and that means that garrote is just doing terrible damage over time and not procing venomous wounds since it can only proc from either rupture or garrote and rupture is up or vice versa. Another thing is garrote is not able to get any of the buffs that come with trinket procs. It is applied before trinkets can proc and thus doesnt benefit from the extra agility (attack power). So whether mut or ambush is better I think is a playstyle type choice. I like mutilate because if blindside procs my opening rotation is very smooth feeling.

    Shadowblades does not cost a gcd to cast. Vendetta does. I'm not sure on the numbers but why not cast vendetta right after shadowblades thus guaranteeing that the application of rupture and mutilates benefit from the extra % damage also it guarantees that the full duration of vendetta falls in the virmens bit prepot incase you had extra travel time to the boss.

    With jinrokh, why dont you pre-pot? If your group waits 8 or so seconds into the pool phase and cast heroism while in the pool you can get your second pot off during heroism and have heroism + pot during for the entire pool length.

    Last point, you have vanish during shadowblades and while I think this is optimal, you want to make sure that you are not energy capping by doing this, energy capping is worse than delaying vanish a few seconds. And of course ambush after vanish is the same debate as the opener with mutilate and I am still not convinced either way which is better, but I do think you get more out of mutilate if blindside procs.

  5. #5
    Thank you for your notes Kaz,

    I will change garrote for mutilate to check the numbers, And also i'm also changing the vendetta order to check how the rotation will go, but the reason i use mutilate befoe, is for combo points pooling, so when i use vendetta, i can use envenon twice.

    I usually record our guild runs so i can check for my errors or to get better on other things, if you are curious, you can check our run on ji-kun youtube.com /watch?v=Wko0bwNhX1E where i use the rotation on the first feed.

    tonight i'll try the mutilate instead of garrote

  6. #6
    I don't really like discussing Assassination openers; do the one you feel comfortable using, BUT if you're wanting to do the most burst, make sure all of your CDs are lining up.
    I guess my biggest critique of your opener would be that you shouldn't be using Vanish during Shadow Blades unless you're trying to use Nightstalker instead of Shadow Focus (which you shouldn't). It's a waste of both Vanish (you're not taking advantage of the energy gain because of the energy cost reduction of SB) and Shadow Blades (you're not getting as many SB white hits).

    Quote Originally Posted by Kazkek View Post
    First off nice job with this graphic. I think its a good way to talk about opening rotations.
    Agreed.
    Carp - Illidan-US
    I wish I wish I was a fish.
    Rogue - Warlock

  7. #7
    Well, the only reason i use vanish is to be able to use ambush because of the damage. Should i stop doing it then?

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Enkhrypthor View Post
    Well, the only reason i use vanish is to be able to use ambush because of the damage. Should i stop doing it then?
    That's fine, but do it during the back half of Vendetta; using Vanish during Shadow Blades (as I said before) is a waste of both Shadow Blades and Vanish. You're getting no bonus damage for doing Ambush during Shadow Blades, so do Ambush/Vanish during Vendetta, if that's what you want.
    Carp - Illidan-US
    I wish I wish I was a fish.
    Rogue - Warlock

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Enkhrypthor View Post
    Well, the only reason i use vanish is to be able to use ambush because of the damage. Should i stop doing it then?
    Same thing as with opening with mutilate, typically you vanish and then mutilate again not ambush.

    I remember seeing a post either here or EJ where some dude ran a ridiculous amount of sims on every possible rogue opener and they were all pretty much within a marginal difference. I think they highest they found was mut->snd-mut/mut->rupture->normal rotation but even ambush wasn't much of a difference and the only one that was lower by a lot was delaying snd for rupture like mut->rupture->mut->snd->normal rotation so as long as you open with something and then SND and then get rupture up asap you should be fine.

    Personally I like opening with mutilate and mutilating after a vanish for the extra combo points which ambush can only give a max of 2 but technically with a crit mutilate that procs blindside and getting a crit dispatch you could get 5 "free" cp from mutilate.

    There's probably some better mathed out dps but I just like using vanish as a filler to get my cp after using both rupture/envenom and dropping my cp pool to 0. I find that it makes for a more fluid game play and easier uptime of envenom.

  10. #10
    so, i updated my table with the those informations and now i have:


    img199.imageshack.us /img199/7656/ov31.jpg


    Tonight i'm trying that out , and thanks all for the replies

  11. #11
    Enkh: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post20969098

    Vanish of course just gets used before a mut when you're not, you know, going to energy cap and into the regular rotation (in the burst window). That ^ should help you with the opener.

  12. #12
    The more important reason to not use vanish during shadow blades is that vanish resets your swing timer, losing shadow blades damage.

  13. #13
    Pre-pull:
    Tricks to tank -> Agi Pot -> Stealth -> Shadowstep

    Pull:
    Ambush -> Slice and Dice + Shadow Blades -> Mutilate -> Rupture -> Vendetta -> etc.

    I only use Vanish to reset the boss when a wipe is about to occur so I can mass resurrect.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Mugajak View Post
    Enkh: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post20969098

    Vanish of course just gets used before a mut when you're not, you know, going to energy cap and into the regular rotation (in the burst window). That ^ should help you with the opener.

    Thanks for the link,

    last night i tried the new rotation with all the information here and noticed the rotation went smoother than before

  15. #15
    High Overlord
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    Tricks to other rogue-->pre pot--> shadowstep--> mutilate 2x (hope for seal of fate)-->rupture-->1 point snd (if everything went well)-->vendetta-->envenom--> 12sec left of potion shadow blades ( by this time renatakis soul charm will have most stacks).

  16. #16
    Stood in the Fire
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stryk View Post
    Pre-pull:
    Tricks to tank -> Agi Pot -> Stealth -> Shadowstep

    Pull:
    Ambush -> Slice and Dice + Shadow Blades -> Mutilate -> Rupture -> Vendetta -> etc.

    I only use Vanish to reset the boss when a wipe is about to occur so I can mass resurrect.
    Why would you use Blades before Vendetta...? When Vendetta has a GCD and Blades doesnt.
    Ascendance # 8 25 man
    Stabb

  17. #17
    well idk why ppl decouple vendetta&sb i use them bot when i have the chance to this way i burst up to almost 600k sometimes with my current gear,also i use vanish sometimes during the fight to get an extra cp or two from it
    the ultimate answer's to all rogue issues :

    -Rogues might still be dealing with the changes to combo points {2014}

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Koji2k11 View Post
    well idk why ppl decouple vendetta&sb i use them bot when i have the chance to this way i burst up to almost 600k sometimes with my current gear,also i use vanish sometimes during the fight to get an extra cp or two from it
    Who decouples vendetta & SB in their openers? Vend lasts 20-30 seconds, SB lasts 12. Casting SB after vendetta means 100% SB->Vendetta overlap, not decoupling. If you mean later in the fight (I don't see anyone mentioning this), it's because an extra use of vendetta is better than lining it up with SB once more (both at 0, Vend at 2, SB at 3, Vend at 4, both at 6, cycle).

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