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  1. #461
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    So in your mind, polling has no validity?
    If you do a poll from this site its not quite valid no, a lot of the posters we see on here are far more hardcore than the majority who run LFR. Still its useful in one sense as it gives us some data and that's better than no data!

    I would love it if blizzard did an in game survey that comes up after the first LFR of the week or something that you do. Just a quick how did you rate the experience out of 5 etc and a small comments box. you could choose to skip it or fill it in. might be something useful to help them get an actual idea of what these players doing the content think of the content.

  2. #462
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    So in your mind, polling has no validity?
    Not when the community being polled is naturally biased. A poll on MMO-Champion or the official forums is going to be heavily slanted towards people who have a reason to be on those forums, and that reason is very often some sort of complaint or difficulty someone is having with the game. Very few people go to gaming forums just for socialziation.
    Roll the bones!

  3. #463
    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    If you do a poll from this site its not quite valid no, a lot of the posters we see on here are far more hardcore than the majority who run LFR. Still its useful in one sense as it gives us some data and that's better than no data!

    I would love it if blizzard did an in game survey that comes up after the first LFR of the week or something that you do. Just a quick how did you rate the experience out of 5 etc and a small comments box. you could choose to skip it or fill it in. might be something useful to help them get an actual idea of what these players doing the content think of the content.
    Sort of surprised they don't do the survey thing more often. I've been playing for 8 years, and only once have I got an official survey from them.

  4. #464
    Some forms of convenience are a necessary evil, and sometimes even play into the progression of the game. I think travel is a good example, since you have to earn the faster modes of travel through spending gold. Other types, like instance porting, seem more 50/50 to me because the lack of teleporting to LFD/LFR would absolutely kill both. Something like city portals to me would be an example of pure convenience without any true necessity.
    Q: Where the fuck is Xia Xia, SIU?!?!
    A1: She needs to start making eggs for Easter...
    A2: Drunk and sleeping somewhere.

  5. #465
    Quote Originally Posted by fangless View Post
    Sort of surprised they don't do the survey thing more often. I've been playing for 8 years, and only once have I got an official survey from them.
    I agree, it would be so easy to implement and if you did it once or w/e you could get SO much useful date.

    sure some people might troll it

    some might say LFR too easy

    some might ignore it and click it away

    but you will get lots of useful data from the rest!

  6. #466
    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    I agree, it would be so easy to implement and if you did it once or w/e you could get SO much useful date.

    sure some people might troll it

    some might say LFR too easy

    some might ignore it and click it away

    but you will get lots of useful data from the rest!
    I doubt trolling of the survey would be much of an issue, im sure the vast majority would complete the survey correctly and honestly.

    However, whats your problem with people saying LFR is too easy?

    Im pretty sure that the majority will say its too easy... Im also pretty sure that the number of complaints about LFR will be significantly high.

  7. #467
    Moderator Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    I agree, it would be so easy to implement and if you did it once or w/e you could get SO much useful date.

    sure some people might troll it

    some might say LFR too easy

    some might ignore it and click it away

    but you will get lots of useful data from the rest!
    They have exit polls for people who cancel their subscription.

    As for ongoing data; they don't really need polls, since they can track actual behaviour of everyone in-game. They don't need to poll to find out whether people like LFR, they just check their data and see how many people are actually running LFR. That removes the possibility of people ignoring the poll, or trolling it, or being biased in their responses, and gets right to how people actually act.

  8. #468
    I play STO now which has player created content, it's called Foundry content. At the end of each of them you do it has a small survey that pops up and allows you to rate it and put in comments. This has allowed the people that enjoy making this content to create new content that people like to see and to tweak the already created content to improve it. I think it wouldn't be too hard for Blizzard to do something along the same lines.

  9. #469
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    They have exit polls for people who cancel their subscription.
    Have u ever completed that form?

    Its TERRIBLE!

    It only allows u to click one option to why u left, whereas everyione knows most people unsubbed for a multitude of reasons. Rarely being only one. And secondly, the options are very very limited. Many reasons r not even there... i seem to remember no option which covered Low-pop realms for example. No options for the community being too toxic, no option for anything related to game features like LFR for example.

    How they manage to glean any meaningful information from the data results of this form is beyond me...

  10. #470
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    One thing I do blame Street for is making rotations overly complex. Proc and cooldown watching aren't a lot of fun IMO, especially when combined with complicated encounters. Mental decision bandwidth gets overwhelmed.
    By contrast, this is exactly why I find the game so compelling

  11. #471
    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    I doubt trolling of the survey would be much of an issue, im sure the vast majority would complete the survey correctly and honestly.

    However, whats your problem with people saying LFR is too easy?

    Im pretty sure that the majority will say its too easy... Im also pretty sure that the number of complaints about LFR will be significantly high.
    No real problem with it I used it as an example.

    You are pretty sure people will complain about it and say its too easy.... interesting considering the majority would never have raided beforehand. But that is your opinion. Personally I think the comments on its too easy will be the minority few. IF it was too easy then we would see more pugs and other such stuff previously in wows history. Fact is the contents difficulty was a barrier for a lot of the player base (and the need for organised raidings another huge factor of course)

    I think a poll like it would be a great idea just to get DIRECT feed back on LFR. a comments/suggestions box can be put in so someone can put some more feedback in there which would be great.

    LFR is a great tool needs some tweaking sure I would like it so you could queue for multiple different difficulty modes.

    LFR - Easy
    LFR - Normal
    LFR - Hard

    sure it might kill organised raiding guilds and this might not ever happen but i'd certainly like this feature.

  12. #472
    Quote Originally Posted by Holtzmann View Post
    Not when the community being polled is naturally biased. A poll on MMO-Champion or the official forums is going to be heavily slanted towards people who have a reason to be on those forums, and that reason is very often some sort of complaint or difficulty someone is having with the game. Very few people go to gaming forums just for socialziation.
    Yet I see a lot of positive arguments, as well as negative, for many of the mechanics in this game.

    Outside of the game world, I participate in several music-gear related forums, and I'd say that the majority of comments on products is positive. And the ones that aren't are generally backed up with bad experiences, or pictures of poor workmanship, etc.

    I don't believe that the sole purpose in joining a forum on any given topic is to just complain, and that happy customers are just doing their thing w/o voicing their side.
    Benevolence is a luxury for the strong - Wrathion

  13. #473
    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    Unless we have more data to go on we can't also assume people dislike LFR either. Both examples need to be provided. I for one quite like LFR some of the fights are still very fun (as a tank it must be said its my only POV). For a lot of people LFR will be their first and only experience of raiding. I feel the problem with LFR is the people who wanted the ease of LFR but wanted a slightly higher difficulty. We must remember the players here on this very forum are a minority the ones you meet in game are also a small portion of the people running these LFR raids as well. We'd need a far larger pool of data to go by and frankly blizzard does not provide it to us so we can only guess =[

    Flex should help address this imo. The jump between LFR and Normal in terms of difficulty is hilarious. An in between difficulty is needed.
    Oh I agree that we cannot swing either way. Thats the point I was making - just impossible to know wether blizzard has it right or wrong. The only thing we can be sure of is our OWN opinions.

  14. #474
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelorian View Post
    Oh I agree that we cannot swing either way. Thats the point I was making - just impossible to know wether blizzard has it right or wrong. The only thing we can be sure of is our OWN opinions.
    Exactly right!

    I think we should all tweet the devs and get them to cave in and add a poll to LFR (either once you complete a segment or something for the 1st time that reset)

    they can get all the feedback they want.

  15. #475
    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    Exactly right!

    I think we should all tweet the devs and get them to cave in and add a poll to LFR (either once you complete a segment or something for the 1st time that reset)

    they can get all the feedback they want.
    Yeah I would love giving actual feedback. But giving a poll to all players is also a bit meh. Not everyone will fill it in. Then you have people who always fill in the medium numbers or the extremes. To either troll or just because they don't give a shit.

    Best way imo is to handpick people based on their (in)activity in the game and ask them to fill in (written stuff) what they think of the game and certain aspects.

    Polls while they give a good idea are imo not quite the best tool to base decisions on. Perhaps they could get a discount on a blizzard product or something I dunno. And Blizzard should check if the form has been filled in properly with actual feedback instead of trollstuff.

  16. #476
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelorian View Post
    Yeah I would love giving actual feedback. But giving a poll to all players is also a bit meh. Not everyone will fill it in. Then you have people who always fill in the medium numbers or the extremes. To either troll or just because they don't give a shit.

    Best way imo is to handpick people based on their (in)activity in the game and ask them to fill in (written stuff) what they think of the game and certain aspects.

    Polls while they give a good idea are imo not quite the best tool to base decisions on. Perhaps they could get a discount on a blizzard product or something I dunno. And Blizzard should check if the form has been filled in properly with actual feedback instead of trollstuff.
    thats why you have a comment box at the bottom of the poll.

    :P

  17. #477
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    Yet I see a lot of positive arguments, as well as negative, for many of the mechanics in this game.

    Outside of the game world, I participate in several music-gear related forums, and I'd say that the majority of comments on products is positive. And the ones that aren't are generally backed up with bad experiences, or pictures of poor workmanship, etc.

    I don't believe that the sole purpose in joining a forum on any given topic is to just complain, and that happy customers are just doing their thing w/o voicing their side.
    I'm not talking about forums in general, but specifically about gaming forums. Gamer culture is inherently (hyper-) critical and highly polarized. I mean, you can see it here: the smallest effective changes in the game prompt some rather dramatic arguments.

    Saying a poll in gaming forums is indicative of the wider playerbase's thoughts is a dangerous assumption. It might give you an idea of general trends in the game, but it might also lead you astray. Just like a single heckler is extremely easy to hear in a theater with thousands of satisfied and quiet moviegoers, a small group in a forum can generate a disproportionate amount of discussion.
    Roll the bones!

  18. #478
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    They have exit polls for people who cancel their subscription.

    As for ongoing data; they don't really need polls, since they can track actual behaviour of everyone in-game. They don't need to poll to find out whether people like LFR, they just check their data and see how many people are actually running LFR. That removes the possibility of people ignoring the poll, or trolling it, or being biased in their responses, and gets right to how people actually act.
    An exit poll means they've already lost this person. Odds are that person is gone for a bit as they aren't just going to randomly resub without reason.

    My actual behavior in game has nothing to do with desire and fun. I actually ran LFR for weeks. The reason? To be better prepared for my guilds raids that coming week by being done with Secrets and Runestones quicker. Do I like doing LFR? Hell no, I would have preferred anything other than that. I do dailies on my alt current. Do that mean I love dailies? Not even close, hate them about as much as LFR. The reason I did them? I needed coins and black prince rep so knocked out two things as once, again, for advancement in my actual (alt) raids. Heroic Scenarios, same thing, I do a lot of them. Hate them too. I do them, again, for valor to upgrade gear so I can be better prepared for guild raiding and be more effective.

    Hell, looking at my account played, I am in LFR/HScenarios or doing dailies for more time in the week than I am raiding, thus that must mean I prefer doing LFR, HSc and dailies more than raiding right!? We are pushed in to things they want us to be pushed in because it is the easiest way to get them done. If Heroic Scenarios didn't offer more valor reward than normal scenarios, how many people would do them? Or if LFR didn't have legendary items in it or if coins weren't attached to dailies or pet battles or rares.

    I guess my point is players don't always do things they like in game. They do things they feel they must in order to reach their goals. Don't get me wrong in thinking that I think EVERYONE hates LFR, H Scenarios and dailies. I know there are people who love them, I'm just saying that the data showing who all does something doesn't actually show anything for the reason in which it gets done.

  19. #479
    Like I said with STO, you do a foundry mission and you get a pop up survey. You can rate the content and leave comments for the authors of it. People create that content for free and then make more or tweak what they created off of the reviews. I would have to think Blizzard could do something like that and use it to find out what players are thinking.

  20. #480
    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    Exactly right!

    I think we should all tweet the devs and get them to cave in and add a poll to LFR (either once you complete a segment or something for the 1st time that reset)

    they can get all the feedback they want.
    While I like the idea of polls, I can see them being skewed. The only thing I would hope is the extremists, like myself, wouldn't be a large enough population to ruin a poll. I know for a fact, any poll or question I'm asked about LFR/LFD would be met with as much negativity as possible due to my extreme dislike in them. Now, that could be what they want but I don't know.

    I really think the best way for poll type survey would big to give questions a feedback box. Something like "Rate your enjoyment with LFR 1-10 and give a quick reason to why below" That way people would actually have to have a valid reason behind their number. You could offer some pet/mount/achievement/title/vanity item for completing it to assure that most people actually do it too.

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