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  1. #601
    Quote Originally Posted by Jilor View Post
    I've never understood comments like this. WoW grew in subscription numbers by a very large amount during vanilla and TBC. Admittedly, it was the shiny new toy in vanilla, but it kept climbing despite how few people were actually raiding and the even lower number of people who did Naxx or Sunwell. Yet, somehow, there's an argument out there that that doesn't work, despite the evidence to the contrary. Naxx was huge, 15 bosses. And yet, what, less than 1% of the population, something like eight or nine thousand players ever killed Kel'Thuzad at level 60...out of over six million. Yet somehow, they found the time to devote to developing it and only gained subscriptions. I'm not saying it has to go back to that way, but I just don't find that argument valid.
    There are other reasons why sub numbers could have gone up: It was by far the best MMO on the market at the time, and it was recently featured on TV shows like South Park (so it suddenly had even bigger publicity in North America, at least). And those are just two off the top of my head. I'm just saying inaccessible raids aren't necessarily why people kept signing up. In fact I really doubt that was it, because I recall Blizzard saying that despite all the effort they put into content in TBC, they still lost most players before they hit max level to see things like heroics and raids. But anyway, my reason isn't any more valid than yours. I'm just saying this is a case where causation doesn't equal correlation.

  2. #602
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelorian View Post
    Haha yeah thats exactly what I am doing right now. I just canceled my sub just because there is nothing new. Will probably resub when we can kill Garrosh and then cancel once again.
    So you quit the game because you lack the self control to avoid doing LFR and doing raiding the "right" way? There is plenty of new content you are just skipping it for the easy content. This is a player created problem and not a design issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Outofmana View Post
    On the contrary, no point posting a thread like this on MMOchamp these days since most of the critical/unhappy people have already quit the game or gave up on this site/wow long ago and are nowhere to be seen. The majority who remain still like the game or are the horrendous blizzard-defenders/fanboys who will attack anyone that tries to raise a critical point, or are a mix of the two.
    Let me know when there is a critical point in this thread that is valid. So far all of it has been "WAAAAH LFR ruined my game". I don't think there is really anything there that needs defense given how moronic the "point" is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    By your logic is also follows that all hobbies must only have 1 agegroup right?

    We have a model aircraft club who use the field next to my office twice a week... what agegroup do u steretype them to be?

    Basically, ur an ignorant idiot if u stereotype all videogamers as teenagers and students...
    No the point being made is that issues in a video game aren't worth all the drama being created over them in comparison to things in life that actually do matter. Most adults are capable of keeping things in perspective.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    Whereas there is a very large community of forum users on this forum who are ex-wow players, they are the 'un-subbed', they are those people who left the game. A recent thread entitled 'why did u quit Wow?' ran on for many many pages and had hundreds and hundreds of posts. U ignore that group who still use this forum at your peril...

    If u want to get a good idea to why people left Wow then that thread is possibly the best and most accurate statement of fact u can find outside of having access to Blizzards secret data.
    Quite honestly I don't give a fuck what people who quit the game years ago have to say about the current state of Wow and neither should Blizzard. That is why an active subscription is required to post on their forums. The only thing required to post here is an axe to grind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilian View Post
    Since when does not being vocal on a forum means you are okay with everything?

    It's also pretty rare to stick around on a forum to criticize a game. I am only here because it keeps me from getting bored at work. If I wasn't bored you would never hear me "complain" about a videogame.

    I think this statement of Ghostcrawler is kinda ridiculous when you see so many threads with complaints on the forums about too much convenience. So much that other people complain about the complaining.
    Maybe we need to be extremely specific about what we are argueing so Ghostcrawler can understand us?
    GC understands things just fine thank you very much it is actually players like you who are willfully ignorant on what GC and other Blizzard employees have to say and what they mean.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert3620 View Post
    At this point does it matter why people have quit? The main focus to me would be trying to figure out what can work to keep the customers you have right now. Need to stop the outflow before you worry about getting people back.

    This patch coming up is really a hail marry patch with some huge things in it you would not expect to see come out during the last tier.

    VR: Could solve a lot of problems or create a lot of new ones. It's pretty bold to try to it now.

    Flex Raiding: One more mode of raiding.

    Proving Grounds: A new system to try to help players be better at the game.

    Then of course the new raid. This is a lot for a end tier patch and a lot of it seems to a attempt to stop the bleeding. Who knows if it will work but they are giving it a shot.
    I like how Blizzard resolving some long standing issues players have brought up is being portrayed as an act of desperation. Did it ever occur to you that Blizzard is doing some of the things in 5.4 because players asked for it? you people need to make up your mind. Does Blizzard listen to us or not because you can't have it both ways.

  3. #603
    Quote Originally Posted by xanzul View Post
    - snip -
    First, at least you read through the thread enough to see my posts, which is nice.

    Hardcore raiders never unsub because they can't afford to. They need to keep farming to have the best possible gear on mains or alts for the next tier of raiding. As it is seen currently, casuals don't stay subbed once they are done with content, they unsub until new stuff comes. There have been plenty in this thread saying exactly that. LFR isn't doing the job of keeping them interested so it needs to be changed since it was pretty much the end all for keeping the more casual player base subbed.

    The people who do LFR, assuming they came Cata+, probably weren't raiding. They were doing other things be it dailies or 5mans or whatever. There is nothing wrong with people not raiding. It has always been the case that people will not raid if they can't afford the time to do so. In Wrath, assuming that they were playing, everyone raided. There were pugs everywhere, GDKP and casual pug guilds all over the place. Blizzard elected to change that with Cata and forced a lot of formerly raiding players to no longer raid.

    These people all wanted to raid but it was taken away be Blizzard listening to people who wanted 10s to be on "equal" footing with 25s. LFR is a far cry from what Wrath raiding was.

    The McDonald's argument works though. Lots of people eat there, lots of people like the food, lots of people don't eat there and lots don't like the food. Does it make those who don't like it have no reason for not liking it? Or does it make those people who do eat there actually like it? Do they go their just cause it's convenient and cheap? Or on the way home or any other number of reasons. Thinking that because people do something, they must like whatever they are doing is just plain dumb.
    Brunnorx/Sofex - Zul'jin US PvE - 14/14H T16 - 9 hr/wk - Exiled Legion

  4. #604
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaelorian View Post
    OMG this is so ignorant I don't know what to say really. And yes this is what Blizzard says too, can you believe it?

    "everyone must love LFR" for example, because it is so popular. It is used so much people most LOVE IT!!!!!!

    Actually and I know I can only know a tiny tiny fraction of players myself... but the players I know apart from 1 do not like LFR at all. They do LFR because it rewards gear and has efficient valorgains...

    They feel it is a braindead experience. And no I am not talking from a heroic pov. I've been in both heroic and casual guilds (casual at the moment). They all say the same... Yes it is a convenience feature for some (even to them). But is it fun and thus preferable? Hell no. Its just a means to an end. You cannot commit to raids and still want to progress your character? Yeah you need to go thru a 45 min of boredom to get it.

    I am sure there are many people who LOVE "raiding" at the level LFR is. I just haven't met them yet apart from 1 player.

    This player loves to raid in that way. For the rest they don't like it but feel they have to do it to progress their character.
    No I'm sorry but you are wrong. Outside of these forums players don't continually do things they hate adn they sure as hell don't pay for a game where they don't enjoy most of what they do. If people are running certain content in a game odds are it is because they want to not because they are "forced". If anyone is ignorant here it is you. Like I have said people on these forums seemingly have lost touch with reality a long time ago because they don't represent most Wow players.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Khanis View Post
    I'm not a fan of Ghostcrawler at all. I think his design choices are responsible for the loss of subscribers just as much as fluctuations in the market, there are games such as EvE which have maintained a large consistent player base... It's simply a myth that market changes and consumer expectation changes are responsible for WoW's 'decline', i think its a petty attempt to remove responsibility from the game developers making simply bad design decisions.
    It is a myth that market changes can affect subscription numbers? Are you for real? You can't compare Eve which is a game designed to be hardcore from the start that isn't even remotely anything like Wow with a game that was designed from the start to be casual and accessible. No one is saying Blizzard isn't responsible for their mistakes nor that they aren't responsible in part for subscriber loss. The real myth here is that a game can be popular forever and grow infinitely. It just simply isn't true.

  5. #605
    Quote Originally Posted by xanzul View Post
    Or maybe people unhappy with certain aspects of the game realize that despite their issues with the game they still enjoy it and don't blow it out of proportion like most on these forums do. People here seriously overstate the severity of many game issues.
    People do make things seems worse than they are on forums for sure, but that doesn't mean it should be completely discounted due to it being out of proportion. There are some of us who don't blow it out of proportion. I would like to think I'm one of those as I don't ever do the classic, "OMG NERF/FIX/CHANGE THIS OR I'M QUIT/WOW IS DEAD/etc kind of posts". We merely bring what we know and think to the forums to talk things out, or in some cases argue a point we feel strongly about. Obviously a vast majority of what everyone says on the forums is strictly their opinion but that's what forums are about.
    Brunnorx/Sofex - Zul'jin US PvE - 14/14H T16 - 9 hr/wk - Exiled Legion

  6. #606
    Quote Originally Posted by Seefer View Post
    Really? Look at a lot of the posts regarding LFR, most people do the LFR and quit because they "beat the game" until next expansion/patch, and if you read what you bolded I said OTHER GAMES! And yeah if someone wants a single player game they should go play one because MMOs are NOT single player games.

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    Just because people do things in the game doesn't mean they ENJOY doing it, I do LFR on my alts and did it on my main to valor cap and fill in missing gear spots............and I DESPISE LFR.
    Again the people on these forums who do things because they think they are "forced" to are outliers and not representative of the typical Wow player. People pay to play this game and if they aren't happy they are going to not only stop paying but stop playing as well.

  7. #607
    GC intentionally uses some word play to make a point, because he can't make that point by speaking the truth.

    Yes it is true, people don't say "make this less convenient" or "make this more tedious", because that isn't what they actually want.

    People say things like "Make this more realistic" all the time. Or "make something more challenging". These may end up making things less convenient, but what matters is which is more fun in the long term. Sure it would be really convenient to just get full epics in my mailbox upon hitting 90, the thing is, I don't think that would be good for the long term growth of the game.

  8. #608
    Quote Originally Posted by Normie View Post
    Normal modes were tuned too hard for groups that were primarily social. Basically, if your raid is going to carry underperformers (because they are friends/children/relatives/spouses/whatever and you think it's more important to play WITH them than to exclude them because they're not great at WoW), then you've been struggling mightily in T14 and T15.

    People complain that the game isn't "social" enough, but then when you get to the hardcore raiding mindset (which is the only mindset left nowadays), it's fuck you I don't care if you're my friend, if you're not going to run LFR for your runes than you can GTFO my raid.

    I think it's hugely more important to the long term health of the game that there be content that people can play in socially than it is that there is content people can play competitively. But maybe I'm wrong.
    Generally speaking by Blizzards actions and words it was the intent of Blizzard to push these kinds of groups out of raiding and push them into LFR. Blizzard was seriously trying to kill PuG and casual raiding guilds thinking these players would be happier in LFR and GCs words and the developers behavior is showing that their thinking that LFR was going to keep all casuals happy is wrong. PuG raiding might not directly promote social bonds like that of a guild but it does provide a good breading ground to build long term social interaction and even moving up to normal modes and beyond compared to system like LFD and LFR which are solutions to poor realm populations and lack of content. Blizzard tuned up normal modes and players who still wanted to do normal modes was forced to adapt and respond to the changes that Blizzard made which results in more exclusivity and an overall greater hurdle to overcome just to be ready for normal modes as LFR fails to properly teach players raiding mechanics and skill sets.

    I believe as well that content that brings players together and promotes a stronger community is better for the game in the long run and GC is hoping that will be the case with Flex, than again with him being wrong with so many other things I just hope we are all right about that. I have been in a PuGer for about six years with three of those also being involved in guild raiding and have helped many players over all the years dating back to Classic, if there is a will then players can get better. PuGs and guilds go together. WotLK did take a stab at guilds and reduced their overall importance, but have also allowed guilds more flexibility.
    Last edited by nekobaka; 2013-07-18 at 06:10 AM.

  9. #609
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    So in your mind, polling has no validity?
    Polling people who come specifically to bitch about the game is only going to get you numbers on those who are unhappy with the game. That isn't nearly as accurate as polling a larger variety of players.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    Have u ever completed that form?

    Its TERRIBLE!

    It only allows u to click one option to why u left, whereas everyione knows most people unsubbed for a multitude of reasons. Rarely being only one. And secondly, the options are very very limited. Many reasons r not even there... i seem to remember no option which covered Low-pop realms for example. No options for the community being too toxic, no option for anything related to game features like LFR for example.

    How they manage to glean any meaningful information from the data results of this form is beyond me...
    Which is why they have an "other" option with the ability to specify your main issue which you damn well know because you quoted the person who said it earlier. Stop trying to spread misinformation to push your agenda, it isn't going to work. No one here is nearly as stupid as you think they are.

  10. #610
    Quote Originally Posted by xanzul View Post
    Again the people on these forums who do things because they think they are "forced" to are outliers and not representative of the typical Wow player. People pay to play this game and if they aren't happy they are going to not only stop paying but stop playing as well.
    That is exactly the point we are arguing though. People who aren't happy won't keep playing. Thus the game needs to be fixed and changed to make them happy with it. The difference in our views is how it is changed to fix said problem, but we both agree that there is in fact a problem.

    Forced isn't the right word and people use it all the time for both sides on this. We aren't forced to do anything, just the incentives to do it are very very high for hardcore raiders. We shouldn't be having to get tricked in to running LFR to do what's best for our guild. We should have our things to do to make us good for raids and "you" should have your things to do for your progression. Those two paths shouldn't meet unless you are going more hardcore or I'm going more casual.
    Brunnorx/Sofex - Zul'jin US PvE - 14/14H T16 - 9 hr/wk - Exiled Legion

  11. #611
    Quote Originally Posted by Holtzmann View Post
    I'm not talking about forums in general, but specifically about gaming forums. Gamer culture is inherently (hyper-) critical and highly polarized. I mean, you can see it here: the smallest effective changes in the game prompt some rather dramatic arguments.

    Saying a poll in gaming forums is indicative of the wider playerbase's thoughts is a dangerous assumption. It might give you an idea of general trends in the game, but it might also lead you astray. Just like a single heckler is extremely easy to hear in a theater with thousands of satisfied and quiet moviegoers, a small group in a forum can generate a disproportionate amount of discussion.
    Case in point, the second the preview for Proving Grounds went up people were screaming bloody murder because it is supposedly ruining the game despite the fact it was a much requested feature and can only help teach players how to do new roles in group content.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brunnor View Post
    An exit poll means they've already lost this person. Odds are that person is gone for a bit as they aren't just going to randomly resub without reason.

    My actual behavior in game has nothing to do with desire and fun. I actually ran LFR for weeks. The reason? To be better prepared for my guilds raids that coming week by being done with Secrets and Runestones quicker. Do I like doing LFR? Hell no, I would have preferred anything other than that. I do dailies on my alt current. Do that mean I love dailies? Not even close, hate them about as much as LFR. The reason I did them? I needed coins and black prince rep so knocked out two things as once, again, for advancement in my actual (alt) raids. Heroic Scenarios, same thing, I do a lot of them. Hate them too. I do them, again, for valor to upgrade gear so I can be better prepared for guild raiding and be more effective.

    Hell, looking at my account played, I am in LFR/HScenarios or doing dailies for more time in the week than I am raiding, thus that must mean I prefer doing LFR, HSc and dailies more than raiding right!? We are pushed in to things they want us to be pushed in because it is the easiest way to get them done. If Heroic Scenarios didn't offer more valor reward than normal scenarios, how many people would do them? Or if LFR didn't have legendary items in it or if coins weren't attached to dailies or pet battles or rares.

    I guess my point is players don't always do things they like in game. They do things they feel they must in order to reach their goals. Don't get me wrong in thinking that I think EVERYONE hates LFR, H Scenarios and dailies. I know there are people who love them, I'm just saying that the data showing who all does something doesn't actually show anything for the reason in which it gets done.
    Again people like you are outliers, most Wow players aren't going to put up with content they hate for extended periods of time. If you think Blizzard isn't noticing when players stop doing certain content and can't discern why that might be then you would be quite wrong. Player activity is a lot more meaningful than you give it credit for and Blizzard is a lot more aware than you give them credit for.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Khanis View Post
    Its a done discussion, the game traded community for convenience, and people are gonna go nuts when they try and reverse the damages, if they even do.
    Again only players are responsible for building and maintaining their community. If queue systems can destroy their communities then they probably weren't nearly as strong or thriving as people claim. Blizzard has given us tools to enlarge our communities and create them in ways that weren't possible before and a fact a lot of people fail to consider is that realms were a technical limitation that wasn't necessarily meant to be the basis to build a community and certainly isn't the only way to create one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arothand View Post
    They kinda did, in one way at least: You are encouraged to use the tools to go to a dungeon instead of, for example, traveling their yourself. If you enter say Shado-pan Monastery as a group, you get nothing out of it; if you queue using LFD you get your bonus. Not a major thing since you can still form a group on your own, but you are required to use the in-game tools which for some might indicate a loss of being social by having to travel to the dungeon.
    Traveling to a dungeon has NOTHING to do with community. Not at all. Don't even try it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Khanis View Post
    Yeah cause promoting a 'Sit in city and click queue button' gameplay style isnt blizzards fault, its clearly the consumers fault.

    HERNIA. INCOMMING.
    It absolutely is the player's fault. From the get go LFD was designed to supplement player formed groups not replace them. The existence of a queue system didn't remove your ability to form groups. Want to do it the old fashioned way? Get off your ass, quit your bitching and make your own groups. It is that simple. What I think the real issue here is as a result of the queue system, elitist jackasses can no longer hold their realm communities by the balls and play god to determine who gets to do content. The queue system lets players bypass that petty bullshit entirely.

  12. #612
    If this has been pointed out repeatedly during the 28 or so pages I've not read, sorry.

    Everyone keeps pointing out that its a vocal minority that are asking for "less convenience", and I don't dispute that, but it doesn't mean everyone who remains silent is in love with the direction the game has gone.

  13. #613
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    That was the big one they had to learn. Born purely of arrogance I think that WoW was so good that people wouldn't leave if they were forced to get better. I agree that they're relatively open about why people leave. Now if they would do something to address the really bad elements of the game community...something more effective than penalty volcanoes.
    Penalty volcanoes are effective but people like you undermine it by saying it doesn't work which results in people not reporting players which results in the very thing you are bitching about. I don't always agree with you and most of the time even when I disagree at least I can see your point of view but this is one issue where I can say with absolute certainty you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about and many of your comments on the subject perpetuates this ignorant notion that Blizzard is ineffective in policing players. As a moderator on this site you know damn well there are several threads made on a daily basis that complain about account suspensions due to harassment, language, botting and many other violations which flies in the face of your entire stance on the issue. Am I saying Blizzard can't improve their systems? Absolutely not. In fact Blizzard has spent a better part of the last year streamlining and improving their systems so they are able to service tickets faster and more accurately. They are responding to harassment issues much more quickly now and punishing players faster as a result. To say it isn't getting better is a flat out lie.

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    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    I don't personally choose to answer polling questions, or ignore them? News to me.

    Again, if folks don't have faith in the feedback given in forums as actually representing a larger group of players, then Blizzard effectively has no accurate feedback on what players think until it's too late.
    So Blizzard should make knee jerk changes to the game based on zero data just to prevent being "too late" in stopping subscription loss? Are you kidding me right now? Look I'm sorry if people are butthurt about quitting the game but there is no "too late". People unhappy with the game quit until it gets better. Blizzard isn't a mind reader and they can't see the future. Like it or not the only way to see how certain changes play out is to just pull the trigger and see what happens. Anyone who is personally insulted by this probably has no business playing in a social mmo anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nekobaka View Post
    Sad it took this long for Flex while Blizzard told the less hardcore and non-guilded to fuck off and do LFR.
    That isn't what Blizzard said but ok.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jakeic View Post
    wow is not a business, it is a game.
    Blizzard is a business and their decision to cater to casuals is why we have such a huge variance in types of content and difficulty meaning even hardcore players have a place in Wow. Hardcore players should take that into consideration before ranting about how casuals ruined the game.

  14. #614
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    All of the threads i've seen have been of players who think they are hardcore. The real top players don't care about LFR.

  15. #615
    The traffic you see on forums is like 0.001% of the game.

  16. #616
    Quote Originally Posted by xanzul View Post
    It absolutely is the player's fault. From the get go LFD was designed to supplement player formed groups not replace them. The existence of a queue system didn't remove your ability to form groups. Want to do it the old fashioned way? Get off your ass, quit your bitching and make your own groups. It is that simple. What I think the real issue here is as a result of the queue system, elitist jackasses can no longer hold their realm communities by the balls and play god to determine who gets to do content. The queue system lets players bypass that petty bullshit entirely.
    It's Blizzard's fault for putting this system in the game, players are almost always gonna take the easiest way possible, it's designer's duty to steer them. Of course it didn't remove anyone's ability to form groups, but it encouraged random grouping via Luck of the Draw buff, and all the stuff you get from completing a random dungeon. And also, it was (still is) very convenient. People are not going to pass on that.
    It's not a fair competition, you either get to make your own groups with communicating and possibly some wait and travel time or you click a button, get teleported inside the dungeon, while you get a power buff and the game showers you with rewards after you finish it. Gee, I wonder what the players are gonna choose.

    I knew it was bullshit from start and that it was detrimental to realm communities (I don't hold the same views about elitists as you, because I've never experienced what you described here, elitist jackasses holding community by balls in 5 man content? never heard that one before), immersion and game cohesion. But it was the most rewarded way in a game where those rewards matter (badges and points), so I went along on the ride, because it was the easiest way, not because it was the best way.

  17. #617
    Quote Originally Posted by brunnor View Post
    First, at least you read through the thread enough to see my posts, which is nice.

    Hardcore raiders never unsub because they can't afford to. They need to keep farming to have the best possible gear on mains or alts for the next tier of raiding. As it is seen currently, casuals don't stay subbed once they are done with content, they unsub until new stuff comes. There have been plenty in this thread saying exactly that. LFR isn't doing the job of keeping them interested so it needs to be changed since it was pretty much the end all for keeping the more casual player base subbed.

    The people who do LFR, assuming they came Cata+, probably weren't raiding. They were doing other things be it dailies or 5mans or whatever. There is nothing wrong with people not raiding. It has always been the case that people will not raid if they can't afford the time to do so. In Wrath, assuming that they were playing, everyone raided. There were pugs everywhere, GDKP and casual pug guilds all over the place. Blizzard elected to change that with Cata and forced a lot of formerly raiding players to no longer raid.

    These people all wanted to raid but it was taken away be Blizzard listening to people who wanted 10s to be on "equal" footing with 25s. LFR is a far cry from what Wrath raiding was.

    The McDonald's argument works though. Lots of people eat there, lots of people like the food, lots of people don't eat there and lots don't like the food. Does it make those who don't like it have no reason for not liking it? Or does it make those people who do eat there actually like it? Do they go their just cause it's convenient and cheap? Or on the way home or any other number of reasons. Thinking that because people do something, they must like whatever they are doing is just plain dumb.
    I do agree with a lot of what you say but you are wrong about wrath. Not everyone raided in wrath, Raiding while at a larger% than vanilla/tbc and even cata was still lower than the amount of players doing raiding now.

    Still you're bang on about Cata changes it made things a lot more difficult for the more casual raiders to get going and in MOP the difficulty in normal mode was still quite high and the only alternative was LFR. If we had flex + FLR during these times I think raiding would be in a real sweet spot.

  18. #618
    Quote Originally Posted by Deficineiron View Post
    I am sure there were folks inside saying they couldnt go putting tbc-heroics in an LFD world, but it was done anyway.
    There must have been, Occulus and Halls of Reflection should have told them that much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arothand View Post
    Thing is, I don't fault them for trying what they did in Cata; it was a fair option to see if the community would "man up", but one that ultimately backfired. What's more of a shame is that they looked at that and, rather than change direction, just added more layers (i.e. LFR and soon to be Flex) instead of taking a good, long look at what the real issues are. The solution isn't to add another layer and say "Go in the kiddie pool because you can't go in the grownup pool".

    I personally hope that the current version of Flex is a temporary fix and the next expansion will actually make normal modes accessible as they once were for the average raiders, and leave heroic for the "good" raiders.
    The U-Turn from 'Hard' to Dragon Soul reduction of difficulty and over-zealous nerfing was arguably as much a mistake as starting off with hard in the first place. Having driven away people who found it too challenging, they then drove away players who enjoyed it that way. Hense layers now. Hopefully it can please more people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Endemonadia View Post
    Im not unhappy with the presence of LFR, i am just intelligent enough to know when such a loud outcry is present for so long it shows that something needs looking at. It muight just be a minor tweak, a clever person to make a few adjustments.
    Outcry over LFD was probably as loud and lasted much longer. Now we see tears because Heroic Scenarios and Challenge Modes aren't a part of it.

    Removing content will only hurt the game, as you remove content, you remove the players who enjoy that level of content. That is what happened in Cataclysm. Twice: First when they removed the easier level of difficulty of 10N and Wrath Heroics, and again when they lowered the difficulty across the board to try to stem the flow and removed content from those who liked the challenge. You could even quite easily argue a third time with the merge of 10 and 25 lockouts having removed content for off-nights.
    Last edited by Jessicka; 2013-07-18 at 10:03 AM.

  19. #619
    The Patient
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    London
    Posts
    235
    It amazes me that some people still haven't figured out that he is a rather arrogant....gentlemen (for a lack of a better non bannable term). There is no doubt he's done some good for the game during his time, there is also no doubt he's implemented some of the biggest failures in it, he always has, and continues to say things that justify whatever happens to be the hot issue to present it in the company's favour, regardless of how it's perceived by anyone else. While I understand, this is partially what he is being paid for, I find he has no backbone at all. He is very quick to discredit many comments if they don't go along with his current view of things.

    Saying people rarely argue against convinience is laughable when you consider the fact, that during his 'reign' he managed to loose over 50% of subs in the West.

    He may be a great sales man, but considering an mmo should be all about player retention, not padded sales figures while you bleed at the other end; he is nowhere as succesful as he perceives himself.


    As is, Blizzard is structuring their model around the ability to milk as much money as possible from an old franchise, the fact that it's a game is secondary, in fact, completely irrelevant. It's a money making machine, and as long as there are avenues of income leading straight to their headqaurters, it couldn't matter less what people think about the design.

    They've had a spectacular success, that they are now on the way to spectacularly destroy and continue living in denial, sitting on their pile of money, laughing at ignorant investors that facilitated all of that and fell for every padded figure thrown at them.

    But then, the way this world turns, at the end, they are still the winners. Sad, sad state of things where a bag of gold and reputation, allows you to stomp all over people that brought you to where you are and attempt to discredit them every step of the way with no personal responsibility of any sort.
    Last edited by mag07; 2013-07-18 at 10:37 AM.

  20. #620
    I think the snowballing effect of loss of subs has to be taken into account when trying to figure out why they have been going down so fast. When people start to quit, servers become deader, people have a harder time to find others to do things with. The game feels less like a mmo and then even more quit. It's a huge problem and Blizzard has failed to do anything about it. That's the thing tho about convenience that has to be taken into account tho when dealing with the suffering servers. People who remain on those servers have to have lfr, they have to have lfd and the other tools of convenience because without them they wouldn't be able to do anything at all. Taking out or trying to limit those tools may work on the mega servers but the rest I think would be in a terrible spot.

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