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  1. #1

    "Players rarely argue for less convenience." - Ghostcrawler

    This has to be the most infuriating tweet I have ever seen from Ghostcrawler

    Either the community managers are doing an atrocious job, or the designers are pretending complaints don't exist

    I mean, players have been complaining about WoW being more and more casual-friendly since WoTLK, complaining about its accessibility and convenience. This story really begins with the implementation of LFD towards the end of WOTLK, then flying mounts in cataclysm, and finally LFR. Dozens of LFR threads are made weekly, how come players rarely argue for less convenience?

  2. #2
    Super Moderator Darsithis's Avatar
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    A small vocal minority has been complaining. The vast majority has not.

  3. #3
    Because what is happening on the forums is a miniscule part of the whole picture, but it is all that you see.

  4. #4
    There might be some who complaing about lfr and such but they're not as common as complaints about inconvenient things.
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueRet

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  5. #5
    yes, like 1% of the playerbase have been complaining about wow being too casual. the rest is totally fine with it.

    blizzard dont care about some whiners on the offical forum/mmo champ.

  6. #6
    Look at it this way, if you have encountered 100 complaints about a feature on a forum, in your experience that's alot, but really it's a very small minority. Also, people who have something to complain are more eager to post it on a forum then people who are a fan of something in the game.

    It's also why it's so funny most people who create such complaint threads think they are stating bold facts, while really mostly these complaints are a people issue, and not a game issue. This ofcourse does not go for all complaints and it's all very subjective in the end.

  7. #7
    The Insane det's Avatar
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    He says "rarely"

    Yes, there are topics on the forum every day that are against "casualisation" and some argue to remove flying. But in the grand scheme of things...those people are rare. It is not like when somebody makes a complaint threads that everybody jumps in and joins that guy. Many oppose him (to then be called sheep and fanboiz)

    So how many have been complaining? If even 100 000 complain (and it is definitely less) while 8, 9, 10 million play and play....what does that tell you?

    What would you have the designers do? Assume, (like you do) that the millions who LFR and LFD every week hate every second of it?

    Would you say because 90% are complaining threads and only a handful are "I love this game" that 90% of all players hate WoW?
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    One cause is a cognitive bias called projection bias. Essentially living inside your own head your entire life makes it exceedingly difficult to understand how others do not also live your same life, think your same thoughts, and hold your same beliefs. In many cases it's quite frustrating to try to empathize and understand why you yourself may not be the center of the universe, which generally results in one 'acting out' in various ways.
    So, in short: the internet.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Birkhoff View Post
    Either the community managers are doing an atrocious job, or the designers are pretending complaints don't exist

    I mean, players have been complaining about WoW being more and more casual-friendly since WoTLK, complaining about its accessibility and convenience. This story really begins with the implementation of LFD towards the end of WOTLK, then flying mounts in cataclysm, and finally LFR. Dozens of LFR threads are made weekly, how come players rarely argue for less convenience?
    Or perhaps you are doing a terrible job at perception. Just because you see people complain on WoW forums, MMO-Champ forums, etc does not mean a lot people are complaining. For instance let's say wow has 8million people, 1million between various forums (for instance MMO has ~372k). Now if every single one of the 1 million people complained you would still only have 12.5% of the people complaining about this. Would that 12.5% be worth it to drastically change things back when the remaining 87.5% are content?

  9. #9
    Hey just wondering, how is it they can measure the 1% when the vast majority don't even give feedback at all?

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    A small vocal minority has been complaining. The vast majority has not.
    QFT. There is a ton of stuff to do, all of it is not easy.

  11. #11
    The problem with LFR complainers is that most of them are casuals themselves, as it makes no sense why somebody in a hardcore guild would care about what goes on in LFR.
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Birkhoff View Post
    This has to be the most infuriating tweet I have ever seen from Ghostcrawler

    Either the community managers are doing an atrocious job, or the designers are pretending complaints don't exist

    I mean, players have been complaining about WoW being more and more casual-friendly since WoTLK, complaining about its accessibility and convenience. This story really begins with the implementation of LFD towards the end of WOTLK, then flying mounts in cataclysm, and finally LFR. Dozens of LFR threads are made weekly, how come players rarely argue for less convenience?
    The only people doing this are the people who get mad enough to figure out how to use the forums. No one is going on there saying how much they like the changes, they just play the game.

    They have more metrics than you or I, the fact is is the same people have been working on the game since BC. Like it or not, they are the same exact people that made the game people remember so fondly that dislike it now. They obviously know what they're doing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vacashamanica View Post
    nop , I leave WoW 4 years ago. all should.

  13. #13
    Bloodsail Admiral Chrispotter's Avatar
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    If you count all the "real" wow players, the ones that actually made it to max level, played for more than a couple of months, dont just use it as Habbo Hotel (I.E they actually play the game). I think it is alot more of the % of players that dislike conveinence than some people think.
    Of course convenience is a broad term. Personally I think alot of people hate what LFR has done to the game. at least 25% of real players would argue that I reckon.
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  14. #14
    The Insane det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucetia View Post
    ...(for instance MMO has ~372k). ...
    ..of which 34 000 are considered active. The thread about the pet store had 1300 replies while a poll about it had 475 people voting. (Btw 300 of those were pro or agaisnt while 175 just didn't care). Those threads are then blown out of proportion like "Everyone is against the pet store"

    However when MMO C has pet or mount giveaways, suddenly you see 15 000 (!) replies. People just don't see as much an issue with many, many things that are brought up.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    One cause is a cognitive bias called projection bias. Essentially living inside your own head your entire life makes it exceedingly difficult to understand how others do not also live your same life, think your same thoughts, and hold your same beliefs. In many cases it's quite frustrating to try to empathize and understand why you yourself may not be the center of the universe, which generally results in one 'acting out' in various ways.
    So, in short: the internet.

  15. #15
    Brewmaster xindykawai's Avatar
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    People need to understand that usually people will speak to complain, rarely to tell they like something, they would most likely get bashed by haters right after it ...

  16. #16
    The Insane det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrispotter View Post
    ..at least 25% of real players would argue that I reckon.
    What is a "real" player? How do you arrive at that number? 300 000 out of 8 million raid normals and hardmodes. That is under 5% of all subs. Where are the other 20% coming from?
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    One cause is a cognitive bias called projection bias. Essentially living inside your own head your entire life makes it exceedingly difficult to understand how others do not also live your same life, think your same thoughts, and hold your same beliefs. In many cases it's quite frustrating to try to empathize and understand why you yourself may not be the center of the universe, which generally results in one 'acting out' in various ways.
    So, in short: the internet.

  17. #17
    What about the 4 million players that left WoW but don't bother to complain?

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Chrispotter View Post
    If you count all the "real" wow players, the ones that actually made it to max level, played for more than a couple of months, dont just use it as Habbo Hotel (I.E they actually play the game). I think it is alot more of the % of players that dislike conveinence than some people think.
    Of course convenience is a broad term. Personally I think alot of people hate what LFR has done to the game. at least 25% of real players would argue that I reckon.
    What exactly has it done to the game? You know, aside from adding an option that nobody is forced to do.

    Nothing? Then I doubt it is anywhere near that high of a percentage, since there is no real reason to want it removed.

    And to answer the thread, I imagine he likely discounts these whiny posts because they are completely baseless.

    Also, make no mistake, you guys are a very loud vocal minority, not anywhere near the majority.

  19. #19
    GC is pretty oblvious to anything anyone wants in this game. The design team has shown over the years that their idea is the only way. Just read the piles of dev responses on MMO each news post, and it's basically "No, you're wrong, we don't see this as an issue".

    Less convenience? No one would argue for that because people want things to be easier. Well, here you go, 3 years later, this is the game THE COMMUNITY has asked for.

  20. #20
    Mechagnome Kuel's Avatar
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    So apparently people on the forums only account for a small minority of the playerbase? Well then why on earth did blizz listen to the forum complainers in 4.1 and decide to nerf all the heroics...

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