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  1. #621
    The Unstoppable Force Jessicka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    It's not just heroics. They introduced coins that give bonus loot rolls and those are only available once per day as well. Besides, how do you figure doing seven heroics in one sitting is less effort than doing one a day? As far as I know there is no short-term buff that shortens the time it takes to do your next heroic. In both cases the process is the same: queue, wait, and do the run. Very few people in pugs are looking to chain heroics, and the odds of finding someone in your guild who is willing to chain heroics with you are about the same as finding someone to do one a day with you. I don't see a significant time advantage either way.
    Nothing to do with a buff, just real life commitments. People find it easier to find a couple of hours on one day to get it all done than it is to find half an hour every day. Pretty much exactly why people are complaining they can't sit down and do that.

  2. #622
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Nothing to do with a buff, just real life commitments. People find it easier to find a couple of hours on one day to get it all done than it is to find half an hour every day. Pretty much exactly why people are complaining they can't sit down and do that.
    We're going in circles here. That was the point I was making to begin with. This change really put people with real-life weekday commitments at a disadvantage. I don't even know why we're arguing about this. We seem to be in agreement.

  3. #623
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Been out of touch a bit with this thread..whoops..20 pages later...

    Well then...as a designer... And you really think they don't try. Well then , the entire population of new and disgruntled gamers are up for grabs. Seems it only needs a huge franchise like..lets say Star Wars or Lord of the Rings and an experienced studio like Bioware to listen and snap them up. Blast everyone out of the water.

    Whoops..didn't happen. Now I wonder...you make it seem like it is so easy. Endless supply of gamers. Do your research, Listen to the people. The forums are there. The people are vocal.

    Now..somehow it isn't so easy it seems. I guess..."as a designer" you could get rich by selling your masterplan?



    So on page 9 you say they aren't trying and on page 33 they are overreacting.

    Ooookay...everybody is clever nowadays, especially the ones who watch from the outside, without data and without their head on the line when it is about making decision.

    Guys..if you know so much..answer me this: Why cannot high paid designers and programmers find all that out that you on this forum know by sitting in your cubicle?
    First, who the hell would work in a cubicle? God that type of work would be terrible. The true answer I think to why devs can't do it is arrogance. The former Blizzard person AMA that was up a month or so ago pretty much said that. The devs are huge dicks and have HUGE egos and think their shit doesn't stink. They think they know best no matter what others would tell them, even their own employees. So you expect them to actually give two shits what me or anyone else on the forums thinks even if it is the most amazing idea ever?

    I never said it was an easy job. It is a hard job but they get paid out the ass to do it. So I kind of expect them to get things done.

    I said they did overreact at Cata release to the sub loss. They currently aren't trying very hard to fix it. I'd be more than willing to help them out should they ask me, but they won't due to the whole arrogance thing as mentioned already. There is zero way that no one has said "Hey, we did really good in subs for Wrath/TBC, why not make things more like that?" at Blizzard. Why they refuse to do things anywhere close to that, I assume goes back to previous reasoning.

    I personally think that you could pick any 10 people randomly on these forums and have them get together and design a better quality of game than we have now overall. Would it fix subs? Probably not but the game would be better for the group that does stay. In the end, I'm just tired of their mild ground crap on everything. I want them to pick a damn side and say "THIS IS WHAT WE ARE DOING NOW AND FOREVER!". If WoW is never going to go the direction I want it to go, then I can move on, not that big of deal to me.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Deficineiron View Post
    As others and myself have mentioned, the 10/25 lockout decision was, in my opinion, at least as harmful.
    I agree with that as well, but getting me in to 10/25 man argument is almost as bad as LFR, so best not to get me started there.

  4. #624
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    i dnt really care what ghostcrawler says anymore with the amount of BS he says i suggest you all ignore him i blocked him on twitter

  5. #625
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deficineiron View Post
    As others and myself have mentioned, the 10/25 lockout decision was, in my opinion, at least as harmful.
    The 10/25 lockout decision was specifically directed at hardcore complaints.

    Hardcore raiders don't run PuGs with their extra lockout. They do more hardcore farming for their progression characters. They don't do it in PuGs because "bads" complain when their loot gets ninjaed by people who "deserve it" more.

    Hardcores wanted less "required" grinding and any opportunity to grind the tiniest bit of gear is "required" in that mindset. So, Blizzard caved to them, and now there is one lockout for 10-25. It really doesn't matter to anyone though.

    The lockout change didn't hurt anyone or anything, at least not in the way that many people choose to believe.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by brunnor View Post
    First, who the hell would work in a cubicle? God that type of work would be terrible. The true answer I think to why devs can't do it is arrogance. The former Blizzard person AMA that was up a month or so ago pretty much said that. The devs are huge dicks and have HUGE egos and think their shit doesn't stink. They think they know best no matter what others would tell them, even their own employees. So you expect them to actually give two shits what me or anyone else on the forums thinks even if it is the most amazing idea ever?
    Complete truth and deep wisdom is always obtained from reading AMAs started by anonymous low-level, low-ability former/fired employees who are angry at management for disciplinary reasons that they aren't disclosing in the AMA.

  6. #626
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Well then...as a designer... And you really think they don't try. Well then , the entire population of new and disgruntled gamers are up for grabs. Seems it only needs a huge franchise like..lets say Star Wars or Lord of the Rings and an experienced studio like Bioware to listen and snap them up. Blast everyone out of the water.

    Whoops..didn't happen. Now I wonder...you make it seem like it is so easy. Endless supply of gamers. Do your research, Listen to the people. The forums are there. The people are vocal.

    Now..somehow it isn't so easy it seems. I guess..."as a designer" you could get rich by selling your masterplan?
    Good game design is not some talent that a select few folks are simply ejected from the womb with. There are lots of excellent ideas posted throughout these and other MMO forums, by players who have been around all sorts of games for a very long time. The people that started this game WERE EQ players who said "lets do something different", and it's likely that their ideas, if discussed on forums, would have gotten the same old "oh , everyone's a game designer now" schtick.

  7. #627
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anarchor View Post
    The lockout hurt the casual playerbase, who used 10m raiding back then pretty much as what LFR is for now.
    You're confusing a lockout change with a difficulty change. But with a 160+ IQ it is probably easy to overlook a one-word difference.

  8. #628
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    This message is hidden because Anarchor is on your ignore list.
    View Post

    Remove user from ignore list
    This is basically my attitude/response. Get that bullshit out of your sig and I'll care.

  9. #629
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    A small vocal minority has been complaining. The vast majority has not.

    I'm gonna puke the next time I see someone say this. Entirely ignorant. You could say that about every single complaint on the forums.

  10. #630
    Quote Originally Posted by Normie View Post
    Complete truth and deep wisdom is always obtained from reading AMAs started by anonymous low-level, low-ability former/fired employees who are angry at management for disciplinary reasons that they aren't disclosing in the AMA.
    Yes because you know better! I'd trust someone who worked for a place over some random on the forums who doesn't know shit about the inner workings of the company. Even a janitor can know if the bosses are dicks and full of themselves, doesn't take much to know who you work for and what kind of people they are.

    I had one corporate job in my life and I knew my bosses were dicks long before I quit. A few of them were cool and nice, but the head two were dicks and I only talked to them when they hired me.

    You can try to hide behind possibility and such all you want to make your point but in the end they are far more credible than you ever will be on anything to do with Blizzard.

  11. #631
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    Quote Originally Posted by brunnor View Post
    Yes because you know better! I'd trust someone who worked for a place over some random on the forums who doesn't know shit about the inner workings of the company. Even a janitor can know if the bosses are dicks and full of themselves, doesn't take much to know who you work for and what kind of people they are.
    We don't know that the AMA guy even worked for Blizzard.

    I am hesitant to dis QA guys because there are 1-3% of them that aren't complete idiots, but then again, 97-99% of them are complete idiots. And many of them are pissed off at the universe for giving them QA jobs (due to their lack of skill/talent/education/motivation) instead of development jobs.

  12. #632
    The AMA guy had his pay check and employee badge in the thread iirc. The guy formed enough reasonable sentences to be in higher regard than a vast majority of these forums, so I figure he's at least not a moron.

  13. #633
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    Quote Originally Posted by brunnor View Post
    The AMA guy had his pay check and employee badge in the thread iirc. The guy formed enough reasonable sentences to be in higher regard than a vast majority of these forums, so I figure he's at least not a moron.
    His entire spiel was a guy "confessing" who was minimizing his fault in his personal failure and wrongdoing at every opportunity, and likewise at every opportunity shifting blame to others, especially his perceived superiors. No confirmation from other sources, no legitimate cross-examination (because no one had access to his sources), et cetera. 100% bullshit basically.

  14. #634
    Legendary! Deficineiron's Avatar
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    actually everything he said about blizzard mgmt in general is what you can read on glasshouse, even from posters who are overall very positive on their jobs.
    Authors I have enjoyed enough to mention here: JRR Tolkein, Poul Anderson,Jack Vance, Gene Wolfe, Glen Cook, Brian Stableford, MAR Barker, Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle, WM Hodgson, Fredrick Brown, Robert SheckleyJohn Steakley, Joe Abercrombie, Robert Silverberg, the norse sagas, CJ Cherryh, PG Wodehouse, Clark Ashton Smith, Alastair Reynolds, Cordwainer Smith, LE Modesitt, L. Sprague de Camp & Fletcher Pratt, Stephen R Donaldon, and Jack L Chalker.

  15. #635
    Quote Originally Posted by Khanis View Post
    Yeah cause promoting a 'Sit in city and click queue button' gameplay style isnt blizzards fault, its clearly the consumers fault.

    HERNIA. INCOMMING.
    If you are talking about the queues, what did people do to look for groups before LFD, LFR etc. They sit in the city and spam chat. Now at least some people have the options to leave the city and do something while queuing for groups. Unfortunately, some just stay in the city and spam trade with trash talk.

    Queues or no queues, some people still just stay in the city. I personally don't think the queues made it worst.

  16. #636
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    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    He says "rarely"

    Yes, there are topics on the forum every day that are against "casualisation" and some argue to remove flying. But in the grand scheme of things...those people are rare. It is not like when somebody makes a complaint threads that everybody jumps in and joins that guy. Many oppose him (to then be called sheep and fanboiz)

    So how many have been complaining? If even 100 000 complain (and it is definitely less) while 8, 9, 10 million play and play....what does that tell you?

    What would you have the designers do? Assume, (like you do) that the millions who LFR and LFD every week hate every second of it?

    Would you say because 90% are complaining threads and only a handful are "I love this game" that 90% of all players hate WoW?
    You are talking about forums.

    Most people, you know, people in the real world that don't sit on the internet tabbed out all day, checking forums do one thing and that's vote with their wallets. They don't like it, they quit. Some do not like it but carry on playing as there are still some friends there playing (Mine have all gone from the game) but they plan n leaving.

    So don't start pulling those numbers out based on what you read on forums. I think Blizzard are aware there is a big chute of players abandoning ship and I do believe they are addressing this and we will see a very good expansion. Otherwise it's slippery slope and rushed next MMO, and no one wants that so they pulled their top guns out of other projects to make sure next expansion is a real special one.

    You will see.

  17. #637
    Quote Originally Posted by Normie View Post
    Complete truth and deep wisdom is always obtained from reading AMAs started by anonymous low-level, low-ability former/fired employees who are angry at management for disciplinary reasons that they aren't disclosing in the AMA.
    Because someone who is still gainfully employed is going to do one? Because folks who stay at a job love all aspects of it, and it's only after you leave that the resentment comes out?

    I can only assume that folks who make statements like yours have never worked, or at least never had to depend on said work for anything other than pocket money.

  18. #638
    Quote Originally Posted by Birkhoff View Post
    This has to be the most infuriating tweet I have ever seen from Ghostcrawler

    Either the community managers are doing an atrocious job, or the designers are pretending complaints don't exist

    I mean, players have been complaining about WoW being more and more casual-friendly since WoTLK, complaining about its accessibility and convenience. This story really begins with the implementation of LFD towards the end of WOTLK, then flying mounts in cataclysm, and finally LFR. Dozens of LFR threads are made weekly, how come players rarely argue for less convenience?
    It actually goes back much farther than that. I remember people complaining about "welfare epics" as early as Burning Crusade.

    I think at this point the community thinks it has some role in development of the game. Personally, I despise the entire idea of a consumer having any say, perceived or otherwise, in the design of a product. It leads to stagnation as people hang on to a product in the hope it will change to meet their desires and developers madly dash to alter their product to fit people's expectations instead of trying something entirely new.

    No consumer should be so attached to something that they would rather demand changes to it than try a different product. No developer should try to pander to people's whims so badly that the design becomes muddled by contradicting decisions.

  19. #639
    Quote Originally Posted by timmyotoole View Post
    I think at this point the community thinks it has some role in development of the game. Personally, I despise the entire idea of a consumer having any say, perceived or otherwise, in the design of a product.
    Consumers inevitably have a say, since they determine whether or not they spend their money on the product. Are you proposing companies should refrain from determining why consumers act as they do?
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

  20. #640
    Quote Originally Posted by timmyotoole View Post
    No consumer should be so attached to something that they would rather demand changes to it than try a different product. No developer should try to pander to people's whims so badly that the design becomes muddled by contradicting decisions.
    Interesting so a video game you love makes a bunch of changes that make you hate playing it. You believe that you should just walk away from said product and company and when they ask you "Why are you leaving" you must say nothing! Because it's possible the company might change the things you hate back to the things you love ? And that would be bad for the game.

    I actually do the same things at restaurants. I order the meal, it's garbage and when someone ask me how it is, I say nothing, just give them a blank face look and go back to eating. I then leave and never go back. Clearly, the food is prepared the way the chef wanted me to have it. Them asking me how I wanted it prepared was just for giggles.

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