Maybe it's "our" fault the Blizzard Store exist ...

[Duster505]

From Feb 2010 to Aug 2011, STO did have both a mandatory subscription and a cash shop.

And they didn't get away with it cause they lost most of their subscribers by doing that. Fact. I was one of them.

[Mekh]

And it didn't get away with it cause they lost most of their subscribers by doing that. Fact. I was one of them.

Merely correcting your statement that no game ever did it. Also, I've been subscribed for over 900 days before upgrading to lifetimer during the last special offer - and have bought any cash shop item I felt like owning.

[Duster505]

Merely correcting your statement that no game ever did it. Also, I've been subscribed for over 900 days before upgrading to lifetimer during the last special offer - and have bought any cash shop item I felt like owning.

Correcting what statement? Subscription in Star Trek is not mandatory and it is not required for you to log into the game. Stop the bull. The goal posts have been firmly in place. Subscribers do not find it acceptable to have mandatory login and cash shop. Star Trek just proved that.

[Miley]

I don't see the big deal about paying the sub and being able to purchase extras. Just because other games do not do this, does not mean this double model is ludicrous. In fact Runescape features the same model of subscription+cosmetic shop. WoW has being doing it for years already charging the sub and then requiring expansion purchases. Almost every single game I can think of has an item shop or additional purchases you can make. Deal with it. Stop acting like this game can never change. Honestly, it's about fucking time this game had an item shop. And if you want to cry about how you're still charged $15 a month? Really? The cost of buying lunch the next two days. The sub price is such a nonissue.

[Raelbo]

I think alot of players will base there final say on sound, rational and logical thinking.

It has been my experience that most people are incapable of this.

They see what other games are doing. And they will realise that paying for the box + expansions + sub on top of a cash shop is simply not acceptable business model. Be that current or former WOW players... or new potential players that actually have many games to choose from that only have cash shops and maybe optional subscription that does not prevent you from login into the game.

Absolutely. People will always form opinions about something. It doesn't matter whether someone's opinion is a product of a vivid imagination or cold hard facts, that opinion will govern their behaviour.

There is world of difference between saying:

"Cash shops are bad because the service they offer is not in the interests of the players",

and saying:

"Cash shops are bad because people are stupid and will react badly to them."


I think that objectively the items being offered by the cash shop will add a lot of value to the game for a lot of people, and hence are a good thing. That being said, I do agree that the backlash from paranoid, irrational people who fear all sorts of crazy outcomes from this feature, could end up causing more harm than the good done by the feature itself.

This, by the way, is not the fault of the cash shop....

[Mekh]

I don't see the big deal about paying the sub and being able to purchase extras. Just because other games do not do this, does not mean this double model is ludicrous. In fact Runescape features the same model of subscription+cosmetic shop. WoW has being doing it for years already charging the sub and then requiring expansion purchases. Almost every single game I can think of has an item shop or additional purchases you can make. Deal with it. Stop acting like this game can never change. Honestly, it's about fucking time this game had an item shop. And if you want to cry about how you're still charged $15 a month? Really? The cost of buying lunch the next two days. The sub price is such a nonissue. I play this game because I like the game.

Exactly.

If anything, the shop does away with the inconvenience of buying the TCG items from third party sites.

[Duster505]

I don't see the big deal about paying the sub and being able to purchase extras. Just because other games do not do this, does not mean this double model is ludicrous. In fact Runescape features the same model of subscription+cosmetic shop. WoW has being doing it for years already charging the sub and then requiring expansion purchases. Almost every single game I can think of has an item shop or additional purchases you can make. Deal with it. Stop acting like this game can never change. Honestly, it's about fucking time this game had an item shop. And if you want to cry about how you're still charged $15 a month? Really? The cost of buying lunch the next two days. The sub price is such a nonissue. I play this game because I like the game.

Exactly - If the 15$ is none issue... then why not remove it like other games do when they added cash shop?

There is no doubt that Blizzard will loose subs if they will add the cash shop. The only question is how many... and is it justified by extra profit margins for a short period of time when they are showing the entire gaming world they are not willing to cut mandatory sub when they start charging for items in ingame cash shop.

[Elian]

Throughout WoWs timeline people have been saying things like "blizzard will never implement mounts/gear on the store"

Well its happened and happening faster and faster. They are denying people content unless they pay extra, ontop of their subscription fee. Doesnt matter if its cosmestic the whole "its just cosmetic" argument is fucking stupid to begin with.

If it doesnt matter then why do we have challenge modes, why do we have different mounts and pets, why do they put so much effort into gear sets. It does matter and its a blatent money grab.

EDIT: I dont know how people cant see this getting worse. 3 helmets and they will stop? Yeah fucking right. Itl spiral into a massively extensive micro transaction shop. Just like GW2 or any of Valves games, difference is theres no sub fee and you can get those items ingame with some effort.

i have yet to find a game that is subscription based and has a in game cash shop

[Mekh]

Exactly - If the 15$ is none issue... then why not remove it like other games do when they added cash shop?

There is no doubt that Blizzard will loose subs if they will add the cash shop. The only question is how many... and is it justified by extra profit margins for a short period of time when they are showing the entire gaming world they are not willing to cut mandatory sub when they start charging for items in ingame cash shop.

$15/month is a non issue to a single person. $15/month times the number of western players plus whatever the asians do is a figure I'd like keeping on my budget aswell if I was Blizz, because people would obviously have to be buying items for $15/month so the whole thing doesn't turn into a loss - and the only way to make people buy stuff at that rate is what you obviously oppose: making at least some of the items mandatory.

[Duster505]

It has been my experience that most people are incapable of this.



Absolutely. People will always form opinions about something. It doesn't matter whether someone's opinion is a product of a vivid imagination or cold hard facts, that opinion will govern their behaviour.

There is world of difference between saying:

"Cash shops are bad because the service they offer is not in the interests of the players",

and saying:

"Cash shops are bad because people are stupid and will react badly to them."


I think that objectively the items being offered by the cash shop will add a lot of value to the game for a lot of people, and hence are a good thing. That being said, I do agree that the backlash from paranoid, irrational people who fear all sorts of crazy outcomes from this feature, could end up causing more harm than the good done by the feature itself.

This, by the way, is not the fault of the cash shop....

No - it would be fault of Blizzard if they came out talking about paranoid irrational people acting like they didn't care one bit.

We are yet to see how Blizzard is going to implement this shop. True... How are they going to connect new currency with real money will be one of the big question. s

[Deleted]

For me, it all really boils down to a simple fact:

Quite a few people are unsatisfied with Blizzard's performance regarding some areas of the game (content design, quality, longevity etc.). Thus, I have good reasons to believe that subscription money mainly funds projects X and Y and not WoW. With cash shop it gets even worse - I have no reason to believe that subscription money goes anywhere else than funding Project X and Project Y *as well as* making more stuff for cash shop! For me that's an unacceptable practice and that's why while I'm perfectly OK with sub-based game, I'll never support game that double (triple-, quadruple-) dips.

In my opinion, most people defending such 'corporate business decisions' are very shortsighted and unable to connect the dots.

[Daeaye]

I still don't really see what's wrong with the store. I wouldn't buy anything other than pets or mounts, unless they brought out something really awesome, but as long as the store doesn't feature anything game-changing, like super epic gear, then I don't see what the problem is. If some players want to spend their money on things like that as well as subscriptions, let them.
It's so simple: if you don't like something, don't buy it. So far, nothing that's been brought out is a game-changer. The closest they've come is the experience boost potion, but if some players want to race to max level to be able to raid and PvP at a high level, then let them. Personally, I enjoy the levelling process, so I won't be buying the pot until I get sick of it, which would usually be level 60-85.

I'm not noticing the game suffer at all due to the store. Designing silly crowns is as useful as designing silly mounts, but they don't change anything. So perhaps we end up with fewer mounts obtainable in-game because they were put in the store instead - but the way I see it, if these mounts weren't designed for the store, they probably wouldn't have been designed at all. It's not as if they design a set number of mounts a Quarter and then say "right, we've got our 10 mounts. But instead of adding 3 of them to the game in either raids, factions or achievements, let's put them in the store instead" - if not for the store, those 3 mounts wouldn't have been designed. We're not missing out on any content because a single mount or a single crown was designed.

[Deleted]

I'll never support game that double (triple-, quadruple-) dips.

So, you've already quit your account at least two years ago?

[Miley]

$15/month is a non issue to a single person. $15/month times the number of western players plus whatever the asians do is a figure I'd like keeping on my budget aswell if I was Blizz, because people would obviously have to be buying items for $15/month so the whole thing doesn't turn into a loss - and the only way to make people buy stuff at that rate is what you obviously oppose: making at least some of the items mandatory.

Exactly. If paying the sub fee keeps the item shop from being P2w then everyone should support the sub fee. If you have ever actually played a P2w game they are very expensive. The sub fee also keeps out trolls from making new accounts. It also keeps out entitled freeloaders. St least with the sub fee if you choose not to buy from the item store, they will still get your sub. People should not expect to play a game for free.

[Deleted]

So, you've already quit your account at least two years ago?

That's correct. I unsubbed at the end of WotLK.

[Deleted]

In my opinion, most people defending such 'corporate business decisions' are very shortsighted and unable to connect the dots.

In my opinion, people against the store see dots which doesn't even exist...

[Raelbo]

I have another option than not just buying stuff from the store. I have the option to not pay the sub in the first place.

And this makes sense why? Why would stop playing a game you enjoy, because of the addition of things you don't need, have no effect on you, and never had in the first place?

You may convince yourself and even a few others that this is a "principle" worth fighting for. But that "principle" just makes flat out no sense.

How mandatory it is to buy stuff doesn't matter.

Actually, it is everything. When something feels mandatory, it becomes a grudge purchase and generates feelings of resentment toward the game. As long as those who aren't buying the items aren't feeling like they are losing out, there is no real reason to feel resentment.

There is not a single in game cash shop game that charges players sub fee and then has in game cash shop as well.

So what? How is this even relevant? Do you think that telling the Wright Brothers "there is not a single person who has successfully flown in a flying machine" would have been a good reason for them to give up on the idea?

Those games have the decency to let the in game chash shop pay for the service of using those items... whenever they want. Thats just a fact that you or Blizzard can not ignore. Consumers have every right to demand BLizzard doing the same if they add in game cash shop.

And Mister...it does NOT matter how mandatory the store is IF players are asked to first pay for the box + the expansions + sub. There is not a SINGLE game out there today that has mandatory clause that you have to buy and item in the store before login in. Every person in the world can try out every game and just see how mandatory the ingame store is. Many of them allow for perfectly acceptable enjoyment for free and even have means of allowing players to change to ingame shop currency without spending money.

The only pertinent question here is what exactly has actually changed by them adding a few items to the cash shop? If someone was ok with what they were paying Blizzard before these announcements, I see no logical reason to be unhappy now.

They are not taking anything away from anyone. You will still get everything you would have got without the cash shop. Worst case scenario: It makes zero difference to you.

[Deleted]

How does leveling faster equal pay2win? I'm intrigued.

How does it not ?
Sure, you cant buy level 90....just yet.... keep being intrigued and you'll see in 6 months

[Deleted]

In my opinion, people against the store see dots which doesn't even exist...

Fair point. I might be wrong, of course. The thing is, I have principles in life that I stick to and one of them is 'never bend over to a corporation' (more or less).

[Punisher069]

How does it not ?
Sure, you cant buy level 90....just yet.... keep being intrigued and you'll see in 6 months

The XP buff would just mostly be convenience, because it's not like you could get RaF before now and use that to level characters.