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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    And they actually killed an Old God...
    Yes, "killed", but we know nothing about how or where that happened or who was involved.

    The Old God they "killed" very likely could have been Y'shaarj.
    Hell, it could have been C'thun, who the Titans "mortally wounded" and left for dead.

    And again, this is a contradiction. It's fine to kill one Old God, but if you kill any others the planet will be destroyed?
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  2. #42
    What if the old gods are not 5 different entities but more like a hydra, multiple heads but 1 primary body and that body is so entwined in Azeroth killing it would destroy the planet. We can't seem to kill them until we kill the final head thus ending their exsistance and ours. Thus why they seem immortal. Maybe this is N'zoth's ultimate plan?

  3. #43
    Mechagnome Pum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soratrox View Post
    The problem with this entire situation is that none of this is possible to confirm, and won't be until someone in Blizzard's story department arbitrarily decides one way or the other.

    But again, I have trouble taking the word of the Titan's (or their minions) considering Algalon's poor calculations of both his own superiority, and the fate of the planet. And considering that if you are correct, and the Old Gods can die, then we've already killed three of them (C'thun, Yogg-Saron, and now Y'shaarj) and absolutely nothing bad has happened to Azeroth as a result. I.e. The Titans have no idea what they're talking about.
    Of course, everything we're saying is speculation and all we can do is shit all over each other with our thoughts until Blizzard has us shut the fuck up with some Old God lore.

    Though I don't think Algalon's calculations are exactly poor, they are just completely devoid of emotion as he explicitly states. I think the Titan's have a certain blueprint of what every planet should be following, and any derailments of said blueprint are considered corrupted. Obviously any level of corruption doesn't automatically equal to a planet being deemed 'worthy' of re-origination, as Algalon had to assess the level of corruption of Azeroth before his judgement was made, but I don't think there is much lenience.

    It's pretty frustrating that Blizzard continue to not provide any concrete information on the Old Gods though, as there are so many questions. I am pretty sure the general consensus is though that we haven't defeated any of the Old Gods, only thrown them back into a slumber.

    I think each Old God has its own personal influence on massive parts of the world, and when a particular Old God is destroyed (completely), the influence it had on those sentient beings will perish. So, 1 Old God = Bound to 1/5th of life on Azeroth, and it's death will only herald a loss of its influence. New life in the area that the Old God used to have influence in wouldn't be immune to corruption, because another Old God would just take its place, therefore 1 of the other remaining Old Gods could have influence on 2/5th's of life. By that theory, we could kill all of the Old Gods but 1 and still not see any detriments to life on Azeroth.

    Remember as well, that the Old Gods are nothing but enemies to one another. They warred endlessly with each other before the Titan's came first, and nothing has changed since.

    Another idea is that when the Tribunal says all sentient life, it might have only meant the sentient life that was created by the Titan's or through natural evolution, meaning killing everything didn't include all those not an enemy of the Old Gods, which of whom were of course a natural enemy of the Titan's. Think about it: if the Old Gods were destroyed and all life was forfeit, there would still be the Elemental Lords left to fight amongst each other as they always had, which would by Titan definition mean the planet has failed and requires re-origination anyway.. Either way, the Titan's may have just wanted to avoid re-origination at any cost.
    Last edited by Pum; 2013-07-17 at 12:52 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by tweekzlol View Post
    but then again, The Coon is obviously unbeatable as he will just manipulate you into being his friend

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Soratrox View Post
    Yes, "killed", but we know nothing about how or where that happened or who was involved.

    The Old God they "killed" very likely could have been Y'shaarj.
    Hell, it could have been C'thun, who the Titans "mortally wounded" and left for dead.

    And again, this is a contradiction. It's fine to kill one Old God, but if you kill any others the planet will be destroyed?
    The one the killed was Y'shaarj, the Klaxxi said that their god died, and that the titans killed him. and that they caused the sha. and you cant really tell whats going to happen until after you do it, kinda like the manhattan project, all the scientists thought the atmosphere might ignite and everyone would die.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Immortality in Warcraft means firstly that you can't die of Old Age, Cenarius / Elemental Lords were Immortal too but they still can be killed under the right conditions.

    In my opinion, Old Gods can be killed BUT i think their death simply has horrific consequences.

    I've posted a similiar speculation in a another thread, when the Titans killed Y'shaarj they realised that the Old Gods don't simply die without doing some really horrible, for example i think that Yogg's Death allowed DW to trigger the Cataclysm, though only Yoggs deathquote points at this, this theory overall makes quite some sense to me.

    If you kill another Old God, something worse may happen than the Cataclysm or the that the lands become cursed like Pandaria.

    If this is true, killing all Old Gods may have killed Azeroth, if their Death have such damaging backlashes.

    Slightly offtopic, personally i think Y'shaarj may have been the weakest Old God so far, he got killed by an Mogu army, though you don't know what it took to defeat the other Old Gods, i'm not sure if the Old Gods were that weak that you could just overwhelm them with mindless constructs.
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  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Soratrox View Post
    But again, I have trouble taking the word of the Titan's (or their minions) considering Algalon's poor calculations of both his own superiority, and the fate of the planet. And considering that if you are correct, and the Old Gods can die, then we've already killed three of them (C'thun, Yogg-Saron, and now Y'shaarj) and absolutely nothing bad has happened to Azeroth as a result. I.e. The Titans have no idea what they're talking about.
    We didn't actually kill Yogg. Evident by the fact that you can get an item that allows him to whisper to you after he was defeated.

    We didn't actually kill C'thun either, he whispers to Cho'gall and Med'an in the comics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soratrox View Post
    Yes, "killed", but we know nothing about how or where that happened or who was involved.

    The Old God they "killed" very likely could have been Y'shaarj.
    Hell, it could have been C'thun, who the Titans "mortally wounded" and left for dead.

    And again, this is a contradiction. It's fine to kill one Old God, but if you kill any others the planet will be destroyed?
    It was confirmed by Metzen that the Titans killed Y'Shaarj.
    Originally Posted by Dave Kosak
    What are some of the larger implications that will come into play for having a dead Old God on Pandaria, if any, and is there a chance we might get to see some form of its body?
    I'm not going to answer if we're going to see his body or not. But sort of the Old God is a lot of this negative energy that has become the Sha that still haunts and pollutes this land. Ramifications... Not every Old God is still alive and plotting. The Titans actually did kill a lot, so this particular Old God is dead. And is safely dead. Not all of the Old Gods were entombed. (Source)

    At the end of the Klaxxi questline, the mantid mentioned that at one point in time, they worshipped Y'shaarj, an old god. However, he was slain by the Titans and was split into "shadows of his former self". Is he, in some way, in relations with the Sha and will we see Y'shaarj in future content patches?
    Y'shaarj breathed love and exhaled hate, inhaled peace and breathed violence... Plus, his name was y'SHAarj. It's pretty safe to connect the dots. :smileyhappy: But Y'shaarj itself is very, very, very dead. (Source)
    And confirmed in game: "Kil'ruk the Wind-Reaver says: When the usurpers came - the ones you call "Titans" - Y'shaarj was destroyed."


    The Titan computer said that killing the Old Gods would destroy Azeroth. Plural with an 's' implies all of them. The Old Gods are massive and stretch vast distances through the planet. Maybe the ones that were killed weren't as deeply entrenched into the planet. Or after killing some, the Titans decided it was too dangerous.
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-07-17 at 05:16 AM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    C'thun actually died. Cho'gall tried to resurrect him.
    If I remember correctly, C'thun did whisper to Me'dan in the comics. Though Cho'gall did try to resurrect him.

  8. #48
    The Lightbringer Belize's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mokoshne View Post
    if bobby singer taught me anything, it's that if it bleeds you can kill it.
    Old gods don't "bleed" by the sense of the word. Plus killing old gods means you're destroying azeroth since they're in a really awful symbiotic relationship. Like, the Old Gods are the really clingy girlfriend who will KILL and DESTROY you for trying to push her away... And if you DO kill her/them they haunt you by putting curses and ripping parts of the land apart. You know, the really typical insane/clingy girlfriend...

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by StationaryHawk View Post
    If I remember correctly, C'thun did whisper to Me'dan in the comics. Though Cho'gall did try to resurrect him.
    I was actually under the impression that C'thun was still alive until I came across "Even in death you can feel the legacy of C'Thun's evil around you." and Cho'gall trying to resurrect him. But since he's whispering people, he's probably just incapacitated and not for reals dead.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  10. #50
    See, But I do believe we killed Yogg/C'thun, we destroyed what remained of their physical bodies. As far as the Warcraft universe is concerned, almost anyone with magical power can transfer their consciousness to the void or twisting nether. So thats likely where they remain, and maybe a resurrection simply opens a portal from the nether to the body so the corpse can regain consciousness. Similar to how the Zerg work in Heart of the Swarm, able to regenerate after death given the proper stimulus.

    Although being able to regenerate from death still means that one has to have died for that to occur.

    And as to that item that "whispers" after his death. Isn't that Archaeology which is supposed to be meant for items close to lore or related to the objects your bringing up, and not necessarily be considered actual lore.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Nomial17 View Post
    See, But I do believe we killed Yogg/C'thun, we destroyed what remained of their physical bodies. As far as the Warcraft universe is concerned, almost anyone with magical power can transfer their consciousness to the void or twisting nether. So thats likely where they remain, and maybe a resurrection simply opens a portal from the nether to the body so the corpse can regain consciousness. Similar to how the Zerg work in Heart of the Swarm, able to regenerate after death given the proper stimulus.

    Although being able to regenerate from death still means that one has to have died for that to occur.

    And as to that item that "whispers" after his death. Isn't that Archaeology which is supposed to be meant for items close to lore or related to the objects your bringing up, and not necessarily be considered actual lore.
    C'thun and Yogg are clearly not as dead as Y'Shaarj, who is "very, very, very dead" and has no hints of any kind of whispering.

    Archeology is in the game specifically to provide bits of lore. It should be considered canon just like the in-game books laying around.
    Last edited by Aquamonkey; 2013-07-17 at 04:14 AM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  12. #52
    The Lightbringer Mokoshne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomial17 View Post
    Although being able to regenerate from death still means that one has to have died for that to occur.
    is coming back really dieing though. Death should have an aura of finality around it. When people keep coming back you are removing any sort of meaning death has. If they are going to come back regardless you're basically just magically knocking them out.
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  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    C'thun and Yogg are clearly not as dead as Y'Shaarj, who is "very, very, very dead" and has no hints of any kind of whispering.

    Archeology is in the game specifically to provide bits of lore. It should be considered canon just like the in-game books laying around.
    Well, for being, "very, very dead," he still seems to have a lot of influence, seeing as his heart is telling Garrosh what to do. Not corrupted my ass.

  14. #54
    I'd personally describe Old Gods as like the Flood on Halo, they're a "plague" per se (with the Faceless, etc.) and the Old Gods themselves are like the Graveminds. The Flood are unable to be killed unless by using the Halo's (which in turn kills everything else).

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by ManjiSanji View Post
    Well, for being, "very, very dead," he still seems to have a lot of influence, seeing as his heart is telling Garrosh what to do. Not corrupted my ass.
    Originally Posted by Dave Kosak
    But Y'shaarj itself is very, very, very dead. (Source)

    Many people were hopping that the final boss of 5.4 wouldn't be corrupted... well, too bad. Garrosh is corrupted by Yshaarj...
    The art sure looks like he's corrupted, but he's using the sha. Like wielding a hammer. He's in control. (Source)

    an other thing, Garrosh is a good antagonist, impressive 3D model and all. but please, NO more « corruption » storyline.
    Garrosh is in control. He's using the sha. (Source)

    Why did Y'shaarj side with Garrosh according to Sound Files? Is Y'shaarj an idiot!?!
    Garrosh brings heart of Y'shaarj back to life using the pools of Pandaria. Fortunately, the whole God isn't resurrected. (Source)
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  16. #56
    Quotes and actual implementation are not always equal, as is evident by Garrosh's final lines.

    It's pretty evident there that the Heart of Yshaarj is manipulating him. It's showing him a future, directing him to it.
    Last edited by ManjiSanji; 2013-07-17 at 06:33 AM.

  17. #57
    we havent "killed" the previous two old gods, simply beaten them back into submission just as they were rising and freeing themselves. They're also massive beings and what we saw was what little was manifesting as they woke up/broke their bindings. though in our terms they are quite dead...just that our terms mean jack to them. The Sha are also far from gone. If their related emotions continue to run rampant on pandaria, after enough generations they'll simply start to manifest once more.

    Even y'shaarj through the sha (once they manifest with enough power) can be brought back much like the ancients who were outright killed. Cthun and Yogg are hardly AS obliterated as Y'shaarj was. In a few hundred generations or after some new crazy leader and his/her cult come up from their whispers to try and bring them back.

    What worries me is that N'zoth sounds like a VERY active and awake and unbound old god.

  18. #58
    Actually, the Old Gods are nowhere near immortal. Check this interview with Dave Kosak and Chris Metzen that came out a while ago...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=TPF5kGZ7mQM

    Listen between 14:00 and 18:00.

    The dev actually say "The Titans killed a lot fo Old Gods", to the surprise of the interviewer. So the whole "Old Gods are immortal" theory is blown out of the water.

    It is not explained WHERE these Old Gods died, though, so I believe it is safe to assume it was not in Azeroth.

  19. #59
    Brewmaster Notos's Avatar
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    I don't believe they can truly be killed, though the lore is purposely vague about this. I like to think of the Old Gods as having an existence beyond their physical forms. Maybe we'll be able to figure out more once Blizz clarifies how they are connected to Azeroth and why killing them is bad for the world.
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  20. #60
    Herald of the Titans Lord Pebbleton's Avatar
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    Y'shaarj proves they can be killed.
    Y'shaarj also proves they can be resurrected at will.
    I'd say they are like bugs; you stomp on one, three more appear.

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