The purposeful pendulum of PvP ineptitude?

[jb247]

Anyone who has partaken in the PvP offering of this game for any considerable length of time can tell you that the balance of PvP is a fickle thing. One day you're the top dog- the next day you're chewing on scraps. Nerfs, and buffs, are always heavy-handed. It is rare that the nerf bat strikes judiciously. At first one might think, "PvP is a difficult thing to balance", and one might be right. However, I do not believe this to be the case. I think that the pendulum of balance swings to and fro with such regularity and ferocity by design. Think of how long it takes to gear up your character in honor gear, head to arena, and gear up your character in conquest gear. The answer: not very long. How do you keep a subscriber engaged in content once they've beaten it? Coerce them to do it all over again on an alt. It's an incredibly efficient, cheap, and effective stop-loss measure until you can churn out a new content patch.

The problem is, it ruins the integrity of the game. At first I thought the management was just inept, which, while frustrating, would be acceptable as it's less devious, and there would be hope for eventual improvement. Now, I'm certain that the wild-whack-a-mole-of-balance train is intentionally derailed off the tracks every once in awhile to keep things "fresh". This, however, is intolerable, and it ruins the trust between the design team and the subscriber. I'd imagine it's why at least some of my once filled friends list is now empty space. It's saddening, and maddening. It's a $20 million dollar pleasure yacht, crewed and captained by maniacal sadists hellbent on sending it into the deepest trenches of the ocean floor. I'm certain that right about now, someone is furiously typing up a reply saying something along the lines of, "There is no way that Blizzard is intentionally screwing up the PvP in their own game", to which I would reply, "so then, it's a matter of ineptitude?".

[Tedj]

There is no way Valve is intentionally not releasing Half Life 3 in their own steam

[Itisamuh]

Anyone who has partaken in the PvP offering of this game for any considerable length of time can tell you that the balance of PvP is a fickle thing. One day you're the top dog- the next day you're chewing on scraps. Nerfs, and buffs, are always heavy-handed. It is rare that the nerf bat strikes judiciously. At first one might think, "PvP is a difficult thing to balance", and one might be right. However, I do not believe this to be the case. I think that the pendulum of balance swings to and fro with such regularity and ferocity by design. Think of how long it takes to gear up your character in honor gear, head to arena, and gear up your character in conquest gear. The answer: not very long. How do you keep a subscriber engaged in content once they've beaten it? Coerce them to do it all over again on an alt. It's an incredibly efficient, cheap, and effective stop-loss measure until you can churn out a new content patch.

The problem is, it ruins the integrity of the game. At first I thought the management was just inept, which, while frustrating, would be acceptable as it's less devious, and there would be hope for eventual improvement. Now, I'm certain that the wild-whack-a-mole-of-balance train is intentionally derailed off the tracks every once in awhile to keep things "fresh". This, however, is intolerable, and it ruins the trust between the design team and the subscriber. I'd imagine it's why at least some of my once filled friends list is now empty space. It's saddening, and maddening. It's a $20 million dollar pleasure yacht, crewed and captained by maniacal sadists hellbent on sending it into the deepest trenches of the ocean floor. I'm certain that right about now, someone is furiously typing up a reply saying something along the lines of, "There is no way that Blizzard is intentionally screwing up the PvP in their own game", to which I would reply, "so then, it's a matter of ineptitude?".

At bold: Are you crazy?

At the rest: I doubt they do it on purpose. It is simply impossible to balance with so much variety. Especially with healers thrown in.

[Kals]

They have to balance for 29 specs; even if a spec isn't highly represented now, if they change 1 little thing that causes the metaphorical pendulum you speak of to swing in their favor people will flock to it (Hi Ele shamans). Trying to balance that many specs for PvP while still keeping most of them viable in PvE is damn near impossible, and I'd love to see the company that could do it.

That being said, I'm aware not all specs are viable in PvP or PvE, I'm just saying they have to be aware of all specs that are plausible in a PvP setting (not including tanks, but I imagine they look at them a significant amount as well due to RBGs or S7(8?) Prot Warriors/Paladins).

Call me a fanboy but no, I don't think Blizzard purposely makes certain specs broken in order to keep things "Fresh", however they have directly stated they "change" or "Buff" certain classes/specs to promote play for them, which can obviously sometimes lead to broken PvP balance.


All else aside, I definitely agree that there are never many "minor" buffs/nerfs to compensate, they're always insane. Look at rogues this expansion for instance:

-5.0 Pretty much complete garbage, representation was down the drain and the amount of players capable of playing them at high ratings who didn't already have access to amazing partners (read: multiglads)/have played rogue for a very very long time was very low.
-5.2 Insanely powerful in conjunction with broken PvE trinkets and almost unpeelable dances/vanishes (Cloak and Dagger).
-5.3 Middle of the pack, generally considered low, took some heavy nerfs with little/no compensation from 5.2 to 5.3.

If they can just learn to buff/nerf in moderation that'd be great.

[Lulbalance]

At bold: Are you crazy?

At the rest: I doubt they do it on purpose. It is simply impossible to balance with so much variety. Especially with healers thrown in.

i agree with him. on bold and most of the rest of his points.

i've thought this way for some time now.

[Deleted]

Totally agree. Been thinking about this lately too

I personally think it always has been like this. It's just that now it's more obvious.

[Deleted]

Some time ago one witty gentleman posted a clever comeback regarding balance ranting.

In short it was something like this:

"If you think someone is doing a bad job, you should try doing it yourself."

That being said, I will remain to see someone make a forum thread of full length class fixes that everyone agrees to be fully balanced.

[jb247]

At bold: Are you crazy?

In the grand scheme of things, gearing up takes a modicum of time compared to say, leveling from 1-90.

All else aside, I definitely agree that there are never many "minor" buffs/nerfs to compensate, they're always insane. Look at rogues this expansion for instance:

The thing is, replayability is king in a subscription based game. It's in their best interest to ensure that just when you think you're close to "beating it", you're going to start over again. Going from #3 to #4, or vice versa, isn't compelling enough to quit a class or start a new one. Giving a class the "ele shaman" treatment where they shoot lasers out of their eyeballs and smite their foe with atomic bombs of lava, however, is reason enough for almost anyone serious about PvP to say, "Hey, I'm going to start a shaman now". Unless a talent is oh-my-god broken (I'm looking at you, original stampede), there is no need to constantly pimp slap classes into the dirt every other patch. And vice-versa.

"If you think someone is doing a bad job, you should try doing it yourself."

That being said, I will remain to see someone make a forum thread of full length class fixes that everyone agrees to be fully balanced.

The strawman argument. I can't possibly do the job, I'm not an employee. Nor did I say they were inept, and were doing a bad job. I said they were doing it willfully, purposefully. Think of a patch, and any solid PvPer will tell you who was the king of that patch. It's not speculation.

[Dcruize]

I said they were doing it willfully, purposefully. Think of a patch, and any solid PvPer will tell you who was the king of that patch. It's not speculation.

I was going to recommend you invest in a Tinfoil Hat, but in all honesty your thoughts do make sense.

[Phracture]

well said jb247.. i dont fully agree with the notion that they are trying with a "fuck this shit up" development team.. but somehting here doesnt jive.