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  1. #201
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    I would have healed everyone except the people who respecced from heals to dps, and had a good laugh at their comeuppance.
    My Main: [URL"http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/emerald-dream/Frederick/simple"]Frederick the Insane[/URL]


  2. #202
    Legendary! Thelxi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taiyoken View Post
    What if I want to do a guild LFR or something where we can have a solo tank and 2 healers?
    Tough luck. At least LFR will be clean.

  3. #203
    I would absolutely love to solo or two-heal LFR. You are one lucky person.
    Indeed ._.

    If you don't like solo healing, you could just leave and reque.

  4. #204
    I've literally fallen asleep at my keyboard "healing" LFR. There's rarely any damage going out to the raid, so there's nothing to do 90% of the time (unless someone is bad and standing in fire or something).

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    If you queue as healer and dps you *are* taking a healer spot, not a dps spot.

    Say we got the situation where we have 20 tanks, 42 healers and 200 dps in the queue, the limiting factor here is the healers. 42/6 equals to 7 full groups.
    For those groups we need 14 tanks and 119 dps. You are left with 6 tanks, 0 healers and 81 dps in the queue.

    Now, if 18 of those 200 dps decide to queue as healer instead of dps and still dps, we instead get 10 full groups, since we had 60 people queuing as healer.
    In that case we need 20 tanks and 170 dps, leaving 0 tanks, 0 healers and 12 dps remaning in the queue.

    The dpsers queueing as healing and dpsing is doing everyne else a favor by making the queue time shorter for everyone, especially other dpsers and they are giving other dpsers a higher priority in a queue since they have to compete with fewer other dpsers.

    You should thank them, not bash them.
    Bullshit. They are contributing to wipes and healers burning out and not playing. You are adding dps slots at the expense of healers spots and modifying the composition the raid was designed for. You do *not* have more full groups if dps queue as heals, you have incomplete groups. Furthermore, you have spent less time in the dps queue than an honest dps player, effectively cutting in line. If someone queues as heals prepared to heal and then offers to dps if it's not needed, that's one thing, but to queue as heals with the intention of not healing contributes to the cess pool that is lfr--me me me and to hell with everyone else.

    I don't care if a dps is doing 50% of the damage, I'll kick them every time if they queued as heals and didn't heal without asking. I'll gladly give their spot to someone waiting their turn. Thank them? Only if you consider a swift kick in the ass as thanking, then yes, I would thank them.

  6. #206
    Scarab Lord Gandrake's Avatar
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    ...then do shitty healing and say too many healers weren't in the right role?

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  7. #207
    Herald of the Titans Seriss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dusselldorf View Post
    Bullshit. They are contributing to wipes and healers burning out and not playing. You are adding dps slots at the expense of healers spots and modifying the composition the raid was designed for.
    Hey, we're bored to tears with 6 healers in there. I never respec unless told to do so, but boy, is LFR boring when you do it on Wednesdays when all the well-geared disc priests seem to go in there. There is NOTHING left to heal for a resto shaman when you're sitting in there with 3 discs and a holy pala and some poor little druid who is almost as lost at what to heal as you are.

  8. #208
    As a dps who has to wait the 30 minute queues, fuck people that queue as healers and then dps. Pure's can't do that! And those who do screw the groups over and screw over dps by passing them in the queue. Personally, it ought auto switch you into a healing spec, and if you don't have one forbid you from queuing as a healer (and for priests, i suppose just pick a healing spec). It should then lock you into that spec. However, I would say it should give them the option to change specs AT THE CONSENT OF THE GROUP. So, you queue as a healer/dps/tank and then one party member drops and instead of waiting for someone to queue for that role, you select to change specs and it brings up a small vote box for everyone where a majority vote of approval allows you to change specs in the dungeon.

    So basically, force people into their selected specs/forbid queuing outside of them (in anything which requires you to select a role including random BGS), lock them into it while they're in the instance, and permit them to change specs via a group vote. As it stands, we have an honor system for people who can hide, without honor, behind their avatars.

  9. #209
    Auto-kicking is unnecessary. I'd go with the "enforced" spec/role locking when queuing for anything. I don't care if it's healable with less people, it's a matter of principle - if you queue as healer to enjoy a shorter queue, you have to heal (and same with tanks, even if those are more obvious). Matter of principle. Why do others have to sacrifice themselves so that you can dps while skipping the dps queue? Either do your job, or get in line like everyone else.

    By the way, I say that as someone who regularly heals in LFR, be that because I'm main-spec healer on that character, be that because I chose to heal just to get insta-queue. And yes, sometimes it is mind-numbing, but so is everything in LFR. Respeccing DPS "to make things more interesting" is a worthless excuse.

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by DetectiveJohnKimble View Post
    Surely the people who are queueing as heals for the benefit of a healer queue and with no intention of actually healing should be kicked. That's all it comes down to. Talking about how adding an additional DPS out of the healer pool makes things 'go faster' or whatever is silly talk, because any idiot can figure out that that's not actually what's happening on the ground.

    Also, saying things like "well X boss should really be 3 healed anyway" is a horrendously stupid statement. Plenty of bosses on LFR can be healed by [whatever minimum number of healers is reasonable in your head]. Does that justify having everyone start queueing as heals with the intention of DPSing because Durumu, etc. can be solo-healed? No, that line of thinking is for degenerates.
    Studies have shown that on freeways, traffic flows better if you have a reasonable mix of good drivers, who wait in line like a reasonable person, and assholes who cut in at the last second filling in the gaps. LFR is kind of the same way. DPS queues are long because the game forces 6 healers per instance. By having that one asshole cut in line, everyone gets their queue pop faster. And because you rarely need the full output and attention of 6 healers, the instance is usually over with sooner as well. So to kick that helpful asshole, when his presence is beneficial to everyone there, seems a little disingenuous. That's not to say it can't be satisfying, though.

    /Always queues as the proper role, thank you.
    Last edited by Tarazet; 2013-07-18 at 08:31 PM.

  11. #211
    i like it when late at night, when you lose a tank and some dps go tank so you can go on.. This wouldnt be possible <_<

  12. #212
    The Lightbringer Danishpsycho's Avatar
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    The thing to keep in mind, is that most people don't mind, if a healer asks if it's okay, that he or she goes dps. The problem is, when most of them (like in the OP's case) just decide to do that, without even telling the raid.

    At first my thought was, that Blizz should lock your role, once you zone in. If people try to accept the queue in the wrong spec, a pop-up should appear and tell you to change spec, before you can enter.

    The problem with this, is the fact that people on a regular basis can save the raid a lot of waiting time, if say a tank leaves. Then having a dps being able to spec tank and continue going, makes a lot of sense and I've done that myself as well.

    As I said in a previous post, I think this problem has been more clear as of late, cause people can no longer get a queue boost from a healer. Nobody likes to wait for 30 mins. just because you happen to be a dps and I have to admit, that I understand why people get tempted. But there has to be some sort of middle ground, cause we all know how most people judge the meters after a wipe. Most of them just look at a number and then decides to yell kick.

    Maybe a vote to kick option due to "Performing in another spec than he/she queued for". An option that, unlike the normal vote to kick feature, won't protect players, who've been kicked a lot before. That way the group can agree on x amount of healers going dps, in stead of just having the players decide that for themselves without saying anything about it.

    Dunno, but it is damn annoying to wipe, cause healers would rather want to dps or never intended to heal at all.

  13. #213
    I don't know what battle group you guys are all in, but I'm constantly busting my balls to heal LFR. Most times, there's me and 1 or 2 other healers putting in over 80% effort. Then there's always, always one dpsing (which is fine). Then the other 2 or 3 are usually derping about doing 1/2 the heals of the 2/3 at the top. Which is also fine, assuming they're just new or bad or whatever.

    I can't remember the last time i did Lei Shen in LFR where I didn't have to use all my cooldowns and was running perilously close to going OOM by the end of it, and that's out of necessity, not padding.

    What I'd give for a "boring" LFR to heal...

  14. #214
    I'd actually enjoy a bit more of a challenge when I'm healing. I sit and wrath/MF while keeping WG up on most LFR fights cuz ppl don't drop under 90% health
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  15. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by Kraineth View Post
    No, auto-kick would be the beggining of a bad road. Honestly just needs to lock your spec/role as the one you queued as. So priests that go as healer can be disc/holy and druids that go as dps can be feral/boomkin and so on. Overall, i believe most people are hoping that Flex raiding goes well and replaces LFR.
    I agree with this method, do it like in PVP. When I enter a BG and the match starts you cannot change your spec or glyphs, so do something similar for the LFR auto lock people the moment they phase into the LFR.
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  16. #216
    I just think if you go in as a healer _ASK_ if you can go DPS. check with the other people especially the other healers. I have no problem with some more DPS as long as healing is covered. If people used some bloody manners it might make things much nicer.

    When I go into LFR I whisper the other tank asking what order we want to tank in or who tanks what etc. Its just common courtesy. I have had it in the past where someone comes in as DPS spec while queue'd as a healer. We struggle and wiped on a boss and then we find out most of the "healers" were in fact dps and when I wasted a BRez on one of them only to find out the healer I desperately brought back was infact a DPS.

    Needless to say those guys got kicked and we got healers in the raid

  17. #217
    Herald of the Titans
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kazgrel View Post
    I've literally fallen asleep at my keyboard "healing" LFR. There's rarely any damage going out to the raid, so there's nothing to do 90% of the time (unless someone is bad and standing in fire or something).
    This is great although you are full-on lying/making shit up/prevaricating/dreaming/trolling/whatever.

  18. #218
    All I hear is QQ about people mad at dps hybrids, over a hypothetical scenario, for a (non)problem that Blizzard set up with their system.

    I love the guy talking about giving people a swift kick in the ass. GG, internet tough guy.

    First, you guys arguing that dps are jerks, for circumventing "your place in line," need to QQ to Blizz about it. It's their queueing system that creates the opportunity and motive for hybrids to (ab)use the system.

    Oh, but wait - just how much of a problem is this, really? I have yet to see an LFR wipe due to too many players queueing as heals, then going dps. Maybe it's the fact that LFR can be healed with half or less the number of healers that Blizz set the system to. Maybe it's the fact that I routinely out-heal some of the healers in LFR, while topping dps at the same time. (in before QQ of enhancement being OP on heals). Regardless, if (and I believe this is the majority case) the bosses are dying, with very few healers being actual healers, then so the hell what? Enjoy your faster queue time, as opposed to sitting around waiting.

    Since most posters would rather whine on forums, than offer solutions to what they perceive to be a problem, how about coming up with recommended solutions, to offer to Blizz?

    The OP offered the idea of an auto-kick feature. That's offering a solution. I disagree with the feasibility of this particular solution, as I think any raid needs to have the flexibility of taking advantage of the built-in feature of spec switching, if it's advantageous to the raid group. An auto-kick feature would negate that option.

    Rather, I think the issue (if any exists), is the LFR queue system itself. Rather than setting it to 6 healers, what if the queue system instead analyzed ilvl? Say for every healer that was over a certain ilvl (call it 515, for current tier), then the system would reduce the healer-only spots by one. The other spots would be healer or dps. So, for well-geared healers, only three would be queuing in, thus reducing the queue times for other groups waiting to raid. And, if it was a slow time, and 4 or 5 healers were in the queue, then they could all come in.

    If you guys want to be honest with yourselves, the real issue you have isn't that people are ninja'ing the system; it's that they're not communicating, once in, and asking "hey guys, these other healers look very well geared - does anyone have a problem with me switching to my 518-ilvl geared main spec?" I've done that, and nobody minded.

  19. #219
    Tbh what's the problem with just healing as healer?

    LFR is unrewarding as any role anyways. You can afk in either role, and if you really hate healing, just atonement heal 100% of the time, or fistweave, or just drop healing stream, spam WG, whatever.

    I mean, I know from a logical/rational perspective, me doing 200k+ DPS is going to make the run go twice as fast, and probably the lessened healing from killing the boss that much faster will make up for my semi-afk healing. But then you have to take on the risk of getting kicked, and it's just not worth my time to deal with irrational people.

  20. #220
    The Lightbringer Danishpsycho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Embermoon View Post
    All I hear is QQ about people mad at dps hybrids, over a hypothetical scenario, for a (non)problem that Blizzard set up with their system.

    I love the guy talking about giving people a swift kick in the ass. GG, internet tough guy.

    First, you guys arguing that dps are jerks, for circumventing "your place in line," need to QQ to Blizz about it. It's their queueing system that creates the opportunity and motive for hybrids to (ab)use the system.

    Oh, but wait - just how much of a problem is this, really? I have yet to see an LFR wipe due to too many players queueing as heals, then going dps. Maybe it's the fact that LFR can be healed with half or less the number of healers that Blizz set the system to. Maybe it's the fact that I routinely out-heal some of the healers in LFR, while topping dps at the same time. (in before QQ of enhancement being OP on heals). Regardless, if (and I believe this is the majority case) the bosses are dying, with very few healers being actual healers, then so the hell what? Enjoy your faster queue time, as opposed to sitting around waiting.

    Since most posters would rather whine on forums, than offer solutions to what they perceive to be a problem, how about coming up with recommended solutions, to offer to Blizz?

    The OP offered the idea of an auto-kick feature. That's offering a solution. I disagree with the feasibility of this particular solution, as I think any raid needs to have the flexibility of taking advantage of the built-in feature of spec switching, if it's advantageous to the raid group. An auto-kick feature would negate that option.

    Rather, I think the issue (if any exists), is the LFR queue system itself. Rather than setting it to 6 healers, what if the queue system instead analyzed ilvl? Say for every healer that was over a certain ilvl (call it 515, for current tier), then the system would reduce the healer-only spots by one. The other spots would be healer or dps. So, for well-geared healers, only three would be queuing in, thus reducing the queue times for other groups waiting to raid. And, if it was a slow time, and 4 or 5 healers were in the queue, then they could all come in.

    If you guys want to be honest with yourselves, the real issue you have isn't that people are ninja'ing the system; it's that they're not communicating, once in, and asking "hey guys, these other healers look very well geared - does anyone have a problem with me switching to my 518-ilvl geared main spec?" I've done that, and nobody minded.

    First of all, you didn't really bother reading all the posts, before lashing out did you? There's been suggested several potential solutions and I'd call this thread a discussion rather than a QQ fest over Hybrids. People on MMO know that it's not the official forums and as such there's no reason to "QQ to Blizz about it" here.

    Just because you have yet to see a group wipe to this, doesn't mean others haven't either and it doesn't mean there isn't a problem.

    Your solution is based on the premise, that ilvl=skill. You should know, that's far from the case. It's so easy to obtain gear these days, but that doesn't make you a better player. So Assuming there's 4 Healers in the queue with an ilvl above 515, making the system cut away 2 healers. Then you enter and you get 4 healers in un-enchanted, un-gemmed and non-reforged gear. Their stat weights are completely wrong, they have no clue what spells to use and they're 12 years old (just to completely the derpness). Would you wanna bet your spot in the group, that those 4 healers can keep you alive?

    About the lack of communication; that has already been mentioned several times. Yet again, it would seem like you didn't bother reading before posting......

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