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  1. #261
    The Lightbringer Danishpsycho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SomeGuyVT View Post
    Allowing for you to select your spec for loot drops in LFR was the change to the system which is aimed at discouraging people from playing their unintended spec while in a raid.

    That's probably all we'll see. The only other thing I can think of would be a more clear depiction of a character's spec'd role while in the raid. The default raid panel would have to give a bigger visual cue or to show a role imbalance. There may even be a raid-warning style message to all players when a player leaves/goes offline/changes role.

    Here's the thing... there will not be any auto-kick mechanics. That's far too discriminatory. Just because a casual bunch of Monday raiders have a hard time with Joe the shadow healer doesn't mean all of LFR should have to suffer. There are plenty of people who queue as groups and intentionally skimp a tank or a couple healers just to make the raid run faster. There are also plenty of hybrid players who do their fair share of both damage and healing simultaneously who are performing the role of two characters at once. Punish them? Definitely not.

    As previously stated: Use the vote-to-kick option if you see a player abusing the system and they're not pulling their weight. Otherwise, stop complaining.
    We did actually see 2 changes; the loot specialization and the swift kick, if you got queue boosted by a healer, who leaves right after zoning in.

    As I've said before, I do see the issue in locking people's spec and I'm not sure that's the right thing to do. Vote to kick is the obvious solution to many things but in theory it doesn't always work. Cause kicking someone requires 5 votes and while that's not a lot, are you really going to kick 5 out of 6 healers, cause they caused a wipe after not healing? I think most people would just rage at them and then continue, after making sure that they're actually healing this time. But having to wait for 5 new healers isn't going to speed anything up either.

    About not complaining; that's not really a fair card to pull. Cause then that would apply to everything in this game, which I guess you could argue for. But if you've been "unlucky" with your LFR runs, feeling the need to kick several people or the same but in 5 man dungeons, you won't always be able to vote kick the second you wish to. If a person has done something really stupid - like ninjapulling 3 times in a row just "for the lulz" - then that person might be "protected" from vote kicks for say 1 hour or even just 15 mins.

    If anything, I'd say that getting a queue boost impacted less on the group as a whole than queuing as healer with no healing spec can. The difference is, that when getting queue boosted, you make someone who didn't queue boost sit longer in the queue. It still didn't really affect the group though, cause healers are almost always instant and it doesn't take long to replace them.

  2. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by krethos View Post
    I often do this now just to get my Alts geared. 30+ min queues for DPS when I can just queue healer and DPS anyway while the other 5 Healers still heal fine.

    suits me fine.
    if the LFR population was not so docile, you would be kicked out every single time for being an ass.
    If every healer starts to think like this, then the group would wipe all the time.

  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    No boss in LFR requires two tanks. Every LFR is a debate between the tanks who is going to go dps or go AFK for boss fights.

    Still, I agree with you, locking people to specs would be retarded. There is a reason you can change specs.
    Yep. And, if flex raiding winds up having the net effect (read: my own supposition) of making LFR the domain of the low-geared, less-skilled players, even more so, than it is, now, then I'd shudder to be in one, where people couldn't role-swap, in order to make the raid successful.

    I think SomeGuyVT hit the nail on the head, with a (simple?) solution that wouldn't require reworking the queueing system. (I'd still like to see them make adjustments to the queue system, but that would require more work, obviously) Add something to the UI, that indicates when players swap from the roles they queued for. Let it be a persistent icon, on the raid frame, in addition to . So, if you do have an occurrence where all 6 healers swap to dps, then it's obvious to the whole raid, and can be sorted out before a wipe. Or, if the raid wipes with, say, 3 healers, and some people drop, and more come in, then it's obvious who the folks are, who should either volunteer, or be asked to go back to heal spec.

  4. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by cityguy193 View Post
    if the LFR population was not so docile, you would be kicked out every single time for being an ass.
    If every healer starts to think like this, then the group would wipe all the time.
    I usually always have a 2nd spec that is heals, and will use it IF needed (which is rarely ever since it is LFR..), I just prefer to do my 150k DPS and carry the shitcunt dps that is usually the 99 percentile of LFR.

    Win-Win for me, I get a Fast Queue, and they get Faster boss kills.
    Bow down before our new furry overlords!

  5. #265
    Sometimes you don't need every healer to be healing. Like if you have overgeared players. The min ilvl is 480, and some people are 545+ilvl. Let some people dps, if healing power isn't strong enough, so you wipe, then purge. Usually the problem in lfr is agonizingly low dps and mechanics failure-gibs though.

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by Pitkanen View Post
    Usually the problem in lfr is agonizingly low dps and mechanics failure-gibs though.
    This haha. Did a LFR on my tank yesterday. Me and another dps (who was not even that great, he was pulling 130k~ dps) was doing 25% of the entire raids damage. The entire raid was floating around 30-60k dps with the exception of us two, and most of them also managed to die during fight, it was just abysmal. Imagine a LFR where people pulled their weight in dps.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  7. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    This haha. Did a LFR on my tank yesterday. Me and another dps (who was not even that great, he was pulling 130k~ dps) was doing 25% of the entire raids damage. The entire raid was floating around 30-60k dps with the exception of us two, and most of them also managed to die during fight, it was just abysmal. Imagine a LFR where people pulled their weight in dps.
    It would be as if some kind of.. Raid?
    Bow down before our new furry overlords!

  8. #268

  9. #269
    In principle, i'd agree with an auto-kick if you weren't the proper role, but in reality I wouldn't like it.

    I generally only do LFRs as a DPS these days just because I rarely get the chance to DPS raids and I enjoy it. On occasion one of the tanks will leave and we'll end up waiting a while for a new one, so i'll often switch to tank and get the job done myself. In a system that kicked people for being a role they didn't originally queue for, that wouldn't be possible.

    Now I agree all healers speccing DPS is a dick move, I actually have it worse than you do because one of our two healers in actual raids ninja specs DPS a lot before a boss pull and the other healer has to end up solo healing TOT raid bosses.

    And honestly, even if such a system were in place, those guys are dickless douchebags. Dickless douchebags would simply not heal and spam wrath/smite/crusader strike/whatever to do dps as a healer even if it would be total shit and still not contribute to the raid in healing. It wouldn't really solve anything.

    Bottom line is: You can't fix retarded people in LFR. Artificial, restricting limitations you try to add in order to do it will just bite legit players in the ass while not really helping anyone with the retards.
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  10. #270
    Herald of the Titans xebtria's Avatar
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    stop healing, let them wipe. problem will sort out itself.

    LFR is meant to be for 25 people who dont have a fucking clue what the hell is going on. that's why there are spots for 6 healers.
    thing is, LFR actually consists about 10 people who have even less fucking clue what to do, 5 people of those group which LFR was meant to be, 5 people who try to beat their bad luck with loot in normal mode and 5 people who are just ridiculously overgeared. those 10 people of the last two species perform probably like 25 people who don't have a damn clue what to do, which is the reason LFR still works somehow. if you managed to 1 heal durumu, congratz, that's you being part of the last group.

    honestly, I would make lfr like challenge mode. you get 502 gear. every item over 502 will be downscaled to 502. after that, the average gearscore is calculated. if you are still over 480, every item below 480 will be upscaled. (if you are below 480 after downscaling, you are not allowed to enter). this results in all people being geared somewhere between 480 and 502.

    they would just need to tune LFR right from the beginning, so that a group of 25 people with an average score of EXACTLY 480 and NO SKILL WHATSOEVER can clear LFR.
    then LFR would be in the place it is supposed to be.

    if that shit would be too easy for some people, well there is flexi mode then. for everyone else, there is normal raiding, and for the top 5% (if at all), there is heroic mode.

    but honestly, LFR is a wreck. you only manage to clear it if there are like 1 proper raid geared and experienced healer and 3-5 proper raid geared dps. funnily enough, tanks don't really matter in LFR....

  11. #271
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffy View Post
    Literally just solo healed Durumu in LFR because all the healers respecced during the ready check. I said afterwards about it and everyones attitude was just "they do good dps and we got the boss down, who cares?" I care, I shouldn't be busting my ass in lfr to keep people healed up. LFR is meant to be casual faceroll. I could easily have caused a full on wipe and there attitude would be entirely different. It sickens me people do this and that they get away with it. Would you like an auto kick feature?
    there isn't enough damage to warrant but 1 or 2 healers anyway. priests/druids/pallies have the whole smartheals advantage and will do most of the healing whether they're geared or not, smart heals hit before regular heals do even if they're cast at the same time

  12. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by krethos View Post
    I usually always have a 2nd spec that is heals, and will use it IF needed (which is rarely ever since it is LFR..), I just prefer to do my 150k DPS and carry the shitcunt dps that is usually the 99 percentile of LFR.
    Usually this is the case. 60k dps guarantees top 7-8 dps spot in LFR on damage meters. And being a healer insanely boring anyway, since the raid was designed for 2 healers, not 6.

    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Imagine a LFR where people pulled their weight in dps.
    A few months ago I discovered www.openraid.us, where people make pugs. There were couple of LFR pugs, which had requirements of ventrilo, flask and food buffs. Guess what: we cleared all 4 wings in a time it usually takes 1 average group clear one wing.
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  13. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by Kraineth View Post
    No, auto-kick would be the beggining of a bad road. Honestly just needs to lock your spec/role as the one you queued as. So priests that go as healer can be disc/holy and druids that go as dps can be feral/boomkin and so on. Overall, i believe most people are hoping that Flex raiding goes well and replaces LFR.
    Flex-raiding is solely for friends and similar although, so you wont be seeing any of the retards not fulfilling their roles like you always do in LFR.

  14. #274
    Did you make them aware that they can set their spec to healz but their loot rolls to dps?

  15. #275
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffy View Post
    Literally just solo healed Durumu in LFR
    You don't need more healers than man, you the best!

  16. #276
    The Lightbringer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ebinnaattori View Post
    50% of top dps in LFR with when played correctly aint that much. 100-150k depending on fights and classes ofc
    But you get the point, right?

  17. #277
    I switch to dps from healing in LFR every now and then simply because all it takes is 1 heroic geared healer to carry an entire group of healers. so if my ilvl is 540 and so is the other healers, I'll usually go dps because one of us is going to snipe every insignificant amount of damage going out.

    But I'm guessing that you meant random people who queue as healers and don't have any intent on healing they just want a fast queue, in which case no. Maybe give them a timer, since some people respec inside. Some people will also 'pretend' to heal in LFR a lot (just like DPS pretend to DPS, or people purposely die to afk

  18. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffy View Post
    Literally just solo healed Durumu in LFR because all the healers respecced during the ready check.
    Is that a bad thing? I'd be happy to solo heal LFR's, because otherwise I have nothing to do, I'd just sit there using wild growth every few seconds and the raid would be full. There is almost no damage in LFR on any boss, Even Lei Shen can be 2 man healed, when the raid has 6 healers? So how exactly is it a bad thing if a few of them switch to DPS to save time by killing the boss faster. Logic man. Use logic.

  19. #279
    Now are you absolutely sure they went dps spec....or were they all just Disc Priests who can do quite good dps while still healing? Just because they showed up on the dps charts doesnt mean they werent healing. One time in LFR on my Disc priest I was #1 heals done AND #8 in damage done on the same fight (Durumu also btw).

  20. #280
    I admit, sometimes on my priest I q as healer in shadow spec. 80% of the time no one cares because bosses are dying, the other 20% i usually change to disc after we've wiped at least once.

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