1. #1

    Maxing Mirror Images

    This is probably obvious ot a lot of people, but might be useful information to some.

    As far as I know, Mirror images snapshots the stats of the casting mage when they are summoned. This means that if you maximize stats that are useful to the mirror images when you summon them, they will do more damage. They benefit from haste, crit and spell power.

    This means I don't cast Mirror Images pre-pull anymore. Generally I wait until Alter Time expires (to get the current 2-set bonus active on top of everything I had stacked up for AT). Later on, Tempus Repit (meta gem proc) is definitely one of the more powerful buffs to watch for using MI. As frost, Mirror Images lines up nicely with Icy Veins and Alter Time.

    On Twins last night, my first set of mirror images did 631k damage (hero later in the fight). On Iron Quon, the first cast did 774k (early heroism). Not bad for a GCD, I guess.

  2. #2
    You must take into account some other numbers...
    1º how much damage they will do if you do it pre pull, usually around 400k/450k ?
    2º its pre pull so you don't waste anything and help you get the prcs of trinkets for max initial combustion
    3º 1st you put them up the faster you can re-use it
    4º the same cgd you wasting you could use if for another spell.

  3. #3
    Using images with hero + trinkets + set bonus gets you an extra 250k damage (totally an estimate)

    One GCD loss during Hero+Set bonus+Trinkets could lose you more than 250k damage. Even worse if you are lining up the combustion the loss of one GCD could really screw up your potential with combustion.

    I don't know the math but it's something to consider. Using Images whilst moving is something I tend to do. If i know I need to move early on in the fight then I save my images for then.

  4. #4
    Mechagnome Criiz's Avatar
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    Well I don't know about you but If I dont used MI at the start, and I get a 200k+ Ignite, I'm most likely going to pull aggro on the boss.

    And like darththrall mentioned, wasting a global during procs + bl would most likely be a dps loss due cause at that point your stacking your ignite and wasting a 300k+ Pyro crit for an extra 250k dmg is not worth it at all.

  5. #5
    Immortal Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon1o1 View Post
    Well I don't know about you but If I dont used MI at the start, and I get a 200k+ Ignite, I'm most likely going to pull aggro on the boss.

    And like darththrall mentioned, wasting a global during procs + bl would most likely be a dps loss due cause at that point your stacking your ignite and wasting a 300k+ Pyro crit for an extra 250k dmg is not worth it at all.
    Kinda how I've always felt about MI. I pop it at the start for fear of pulling aggro. The only other time I tend to pop it is if we're trying to wipe and we need someone to mass rez, I'll use it to have them keep enemies distracted as I invis away

    It's definitely a DPS increase to use them offensively (very small, but still an increase, nonetheless), but definitely not during cooldowns/procs.

  6. #6
    What I do as fire is right after my combustion I will pop MI since they will benefit from trinkets pot and w/e, as arcane I will usually pop them right after I ABar as my alter time fades and I reset, since I don't want to cast AB (cuz AT reset so max stacks) and I also don't want to waste a gcd, this also means they are benefitting from trinkets etc

    both of these ways I have found maximize my MI output while minimizing my threat

  7. #7
    Immortal Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voltaa View Post
    both of these ways I have found maximize my MI output while minimizing my threat
    Technically, your threat doesn't get affected. You just won't be targeted during those 30s.

    It's not a threat dump by any means, just a threat 'mask'

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    Technically, your threat doesn't get affected. You just won't be targeted during those 30s.

    It's not a threat dump by any means, just a threat 'mask'
    I understand that, but at the beginning of the fight masking threat while the tank builds vengeance works the same as dropping the threat, it gives him time to get ahead of me

  9. #9
    Immortal Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voltaa View Post
    I understand that, but at the beginning of the fight masking threat while the tank builds vengeance works the same as dropping the threat, it gives him time to get ahead of me
    Oh totally

  10. #10
    If you are pulling aggro in the beginning you and your raid will lose more dps than you get by saving MI.
    Dpsing form the beginning instead of waiting 2 (?) seconds until your tank has enough aggro is probably worth more damage than the MI will do extra with good proccs.

    Imo it's a good option to use them in the beginning if your tank doesn't build aggro fast enough.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by dR-vIce View Post
    If you are pulling aggro in the beginning you and your raid will lose more dps than you get by saving MI.
    Dpsing form the beginning instead of waiting 2 (?) seconds until your tank has enough aggro is probably worth more damage than the MI will do extra with good proccs.

    Imo it's a good option to use them in the beginning if your tank doesn't build aggro fast enough.
    when I talk about "saving them" I am still using them in the first five to ten seconds of the fight, I just don't precast them before the pull like some people do

  12. #12
    Whatever you decide to do during the pull, you can still optimize the images three minutes later into the fight by combining them with a meta gem proc, for instance. I haven't had any issues pulling aggro from our tanks (but we have up to 4 hunters in the raid misdirecting to the tank). YMMV.

  13. #13
    Mechagnome jtmzac's Avatar
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    I always thought mirrors were dynamic like the water elemental...

    I think fire is the only spec that can straight pull off tanks. As arcane or frost they're great to use pre-pull so that a rogue can tricks you.
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  14. #14
    Immortal Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtmzac View Post
    I always thought mirrors were dynamic like the water elemental...

    I think fire is the only spec that can straight pull off tanks. As arcane or frost they're great to use pre-pull so that a rogue can tricks you.
    HasteVocation definitely can too if everything procs and goes off like nuts.

    I imagine Amplification definitely causing most Bursty casters to be having aggro issues.

  15. #15
    Mechagnome jtmzac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    I imagine Amplification definitely causing most Bursty casters to be having aggro issues.
    UVLS already causes issues. Boomkins can generate huge amounts of threat on the pull.

    Next tier tanks will have the threat generation buff from using taunt so that might help.
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  16. #16
    Pets like the Water Elemental got dynamic scaling, but I'm pretty sure Mirror Images are still on snapshot scaling. The way to test is to log in (I can't do that right now), pop some haste cooldowns (time warp, icy veins) and wait until they have maybe 15 seconds left, then use Mirror Images and observe if the cast time changes when the haste effects fade from you. If the cast time is static, the images do a snapshot. If the cast time goes up suddenly, they are on dynamic scaling.

  17. #17
    Grunt cecild's Avatar
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    It's definitely not worth saving them for an extra bit of dps, I do like your thinking and the fact you are challenging "why".

    But loosing dps to agro loss pulls/dying there are all things that can and kill screw up your opener, get them popped before with pre-pot, and go nuts when that countdown disappears




  18. #18
    Mechagnome jtmzac's Avatar
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    If they do snapshot stats it might be worth using them at 10 stacks of wushoolay with breath of the hydra also up assuming you don't need them to prevent pulling aggro (you don't as frost at least).

    Unless the mirror frostbolt scaling is really bad its going to be more dps then a single frostbolt at high int from trinkets.

    Fire is a bit different but it could also be worth it for arcane.
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by cecild View Post
    It's definitely not worth saving them for an extra bit of dps, I do like your thinking and the fact you are challenging "why".

    But loosing dps to agro loss pulls/dying there are all things that can and kill screw up your opener, get them popped before with pre-pot, and go nuts when that countdown disappears
    I see your point, you do no dps if you are dead, but I personally like to maximize my CD usage to get the most I can out of that global, for that first ten or so seconds I put my faith in my tank, and due to how ranged threat works we don't have to worry about pulling iff the tank quite like an enhance shammy does

  20. #20
    Dreadlord Csnyder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtmzac View Post
    I always thought mirrors were dynamic like the water elemental...

    I think fire is the only spec that can straight pull off tanks. As arcane or frost they're great to use pre-pull so that a rogue can tricks you.
    i pull off tanks as arcane often, not a good thing but it happens during tank swaps a lot

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