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  1. #1

    Are the August Celestials a suitable successor to The Dragon Aspects?

    Since The Dragon Aspects have had a strong presence in every iteration of WoW so far, the August Celestials have big shoes to fill. Are they as interesting to you?

    Though the origins behind the Aspects and the Celestials differ (with the Celestials being closer to the Ancients), they fill the role of somewhat passive demigod that was formerly filled by the Aspects. I've always been a big fan of the Aspects up until the ending of Cataclysm. Didn't care much for the sudden loss of such 5 iconic characters at one time. Really 6, if you consider the fact that Thrall has zero presence in Pandaria.

    But the Celestials, thus far, don't hook me quite as effortlessly. There is also something unsettling about the chosen voices coming from gigantic idling beasts. Chi-ji, for instance, stands constantly quacking whilst his calm young male voice comes out from seemingly nowhere. Same with Yu'lon, whose voice is alarmingly saccharine and unnervingly positive despite the immense chaos going on around her (and that her tongue wiggles around in her unclosing maw).

    Thoughts?

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  2. #2
    Herald of the Titans FuxieDK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisisvacant View Post
    Since The Dragon Aspects have had a strong presence in every iteration of WoW so far, the August Celestials have big shoes to fill. Are they as interesting to you?
    Aspects wasn't present in neither Vanilla nor TBC. In WotLK, Malygos was killed off, in a pathetic way, not fitting for an Aspect.

    Not sure, how you can call that "strong presence in every iteration of WoW"....

    But to answer your question: Nope, AC are bland NPCs I have no attachment to. I can't see them serve ay purpose in expansions to come..

  3. #3
    Pandaren Monk Myz's Avatar
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    Indeed, the only real screen time the Aspects received was in Cataclysm with some appearances in Wrath. While the Aspects were interesting, the Celestials are equally fascinating.

  4. #4
    Pandaren Monk Solzan Nemesis's Avatar
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    I see them more like the spirits at Mount Hyjal.

  5. #5
    About Yu'lon: I always interpreted that scene as her trying to calm you down. You've just been indirectly responsible for unleashing the Sha of Doubt. If I were an all-wise being, trying to shift the minds of people away from their doubts to prevent them from feeding the Sha would be first on my agenda.


    As for the Celestials themselves, they're interesting, and I wish we knew more about them (where do they come from, are they related to the Ancients or are they meant to be Aspects of the south (versus Wyrmrest in the north), etc.), but I doubt they're going to play any role beyond Pandaria, or will even leave the continent for that matter.

  6. #6
    Pandaren Monk
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    I've thought about it a lot over the expansion. Is there now, or will there ever be a seasonings achieve?!?!?
    It's bugged me since I saw the name datamined, WHERE THE HELL IS MY CELESTIAL SEASONINGS ACHIEVE!!!!!!!!!!!111111(ONE)(one)
    To be quite honest, I just haven't felt very connected to their lore at all.
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  7. #7
    Dreadlord Manabomb's Avatar
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    The aspects and the celestials. I've actually been pondering this one recently. I honestly feel that it was a dick move for Blizzard to de-throne the aspects at the end of Cata and claim it was "the age of mortals" only to have us with these august celestials again in mop. Aside from that, I feel as if the majority of characters I have have very little connection to these celestials, from a character point of view they just seem to be replacing something we had before. What little lore we know behind the celestials only furthers their mystery which would be a good thing if they honestly weren't so similar to the aspects. Wrathion in this sense makes a better character because we know more of his back-story, motives and desires where we know almost nothing about the celestials beyond "good guys".

    Granted it did take a while before any concrete lore about the dragon aspects were made, I just wish they would have kept the aspects instead of trying to re-write them with a more asian theme. One of the many reasons MoP has such monumental writing flaws.
    Reduce- Iconic class abilities, complexity and meaningful rotations, usefulness of any one class in a raid group
    Reuse- A continent from 3 expansions ago, a story arch from 3 games ago, characters that would otherwise be dead
    Recycle- A beaten to death plot-line, the nostalgia goggles for TBC, bossfight mechanics that make patchwerk seem complex
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  8. #8
    Epic! RaoBurning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynneiah View Post
    As for the Celestials themselves, they're interesting, and I wish we knew more about them (where do they come from, are they related to the Ancients or are they meant to be Aspects of the south (versus Wyrmrest in the north), etc.), but I doubt they're going to play any role beyond Pandaria, or will even leave the continent for that matter.
    Given that the Aspects were empowered ages before there even was much of a geographically distinct south, I sort of doubt it. Plus from what I can see they're quite weak compared to the Dragon Aspects. More like the Ancients if anything, I would say, but a little more custom tailored to Pandaria's unique culture.

    Now, if they were constructs of the Aspects, that would be interesting. Maybe a young Malygos trying to recreate the ritual that sired himself?

    Quote Originally Posted by Manabomb View Post
    Granted it did take a while before any concrete lore about the dragon aspects were made, I just wish they would have kept the aspects instead of trying to re-write them with a more asian theme. One of the many reasons MoP has such monumental writing flaws.
    I don't see them as replacement characters for the Aspects at all. They're far weaker for one thing; there's little awe to be had in seeing them show up. They're not explicitly immortal; Yu'lon needed a new jade body. Like I said, if anything they're a new set of Ancients, not Aspects. Uber spirits, but far from game breaking, so to speak.

    More lore would be nice though. Oh, and lol at the bold. MoP's writing is far from terrible.
    Last edited by RaoBurning; 2013-07-17 at 09:49 AM.
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  9. #9
    Dreadlord Manabomb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaoBurning View Post
    I don't see them as replacement characters for the Aspects at all. They're far weaker for one thing; there's little awe to be had in seeing them show up. They're not explicitly immortal; Yu'lon needed a new jade body. Like I said, if anything they're a new set of Ancients, not Aspects. Uber spirits, but far from game breaking, so to speak.

    More lore would be nice though. Oh, and lol at the bold. MoP's writing is far from terrible.
    I disagree. They are honestly direct replacements to the aspects. "Far weaker" in a subjective term seeing as we barely know how far the power of the aspects and the celestials can even go. Immortality I will give you, but honestly the similarities between them is very uncanny in both character and general purpose. Ancients I always saw as extremely weak spirits. Sort of like Loa spirits outside the spirit realm. Very weak. Yet the power of the celestials seems to be much higher than that. Again, power levels being subjective (feels like DBZ in here) the whole general feel of ancient beings from a time long ago protecting and sheltering and teaching lesser races as well as being guardians of sacred lands or secrets is basically what both the celestials and the aspects are.
    Reduce- Iconic class abilities, complexity and meaningful rotations, usefulness of any one class in a raid group
    Reuse- A continent from 3 expansions ago, a story arch from 3 games ago, characters that would otherwise be dead
    Recycle- A beaten to death plot-line, the nostalgia goggles for TBC, bossfight mechanics that make patchwerk seem complex
    The three R's of Warlords of Draenor and that doesn't even mention flying, #savekarabor, blizzard store, tier to tier ilvl skips.

  10. #10
    I agree. Ancients seems more likely, and they fit with their 'super-powered talking animals' theme.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Manabomb View Post
    I disagree. They are honestly direct replacements to the aspects. "Far weaker" in a subjective term seeing as we barely know how far the power of the aspects and the celestials can even go. Immortality I will give you, but honestly the similarities between them is very uncanny in both character and general purpose. Ancients I always saw as extremely weak spirits. Sort of like Loa spirits outside the spirit realm. Very weak. Yet the power of the celestials seems to be much higher than that. Again, power levels being subjective (feels like DBZ in here) the whole general feel of ancient beings from a time long ago protecting and sheltering and teaching lesser races as well as being guardians of sacred lands or secrets is basically what both the celestials and the aspects are.
    I don't know. Give the fact that, for example, Niuzao has the sole task of guarding the western edge of Pandaria, and he still needs the help of mortals to do it, does show a certain lack of power. A fully powered Alexzstrasza, for example, could probably turn the entirety of the Mantid legions to ash within minutes (okay, maybe hours).

  11. #11
    They're basicly ancients like the Bear spirit and his twin children in Northrend and the ones we brought back in Hyjal

  12. #12
    Bloodsail Admiral Barendon's Avatar
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    Well, it's an interesting topic. They seem to serve the pandaren rather than any ethnic or racial group in pandaria, which makes me think they're they might have been created by the pandaren ancestors, they are generally very weak compared to the aspects, they usually serve as guides for pandaria and didn't have a large role in retaliating the rise of evil since we discovered the land. (Reminds me of the quest where Yulon explains how she's connected with the big dragon statue in jade forest)

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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Solzan Nemesis View Post
    I see them more like the spirits at Mount Hyjal.
    A few people have mentioned this, but I qualified that in the original post stating that though they were closer in similarity to the Ancients their role in this expansion fits more that of the Aspects.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FuxieDK View Post
    Aspects wasn't present in neither Vanilla nor TBC. In WotLK, Malygos was killed off, in a pathetic way, not fitting for an Aspect.

    Not sure, how you can call that "strong presence in every iteration of WoW"....

    But to answer your question: Nope, AC are bland NPCs I have no attachment to. I can't see them serve ay purpose in expansions to come..
    The Aspects still had a very strong presence in Vanilla.

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  14. #14
    The Lightbringer Raugnaut's Avatar
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    The August Celestials are NOT a suitable successor to the Dragon Aspects- the 5 (Now 4) Dragon Aspects original duty were watchdogs in order to help make certain that the Old Gods did not escape their prison (unfortunately, they lost sight of that ultimate objective at some point in the past). The 4 Celestials are closer to the various Loas- more specifically, the bestial Loas found in Northrend, who, on top of being an animal of some sort, represent some sort of idea. (AKA the flying snake=spiritual realm, the cat=ferocity, the snake=cunning, the mammoth=tenacity, the rhino=strength, ect)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Manabomb View Post
    I disagree. They are honestly direct replacements to the aspects. "Far weaker" in a subjective term seeing as we barely know how far the power of the aspects and the celestials can even go. Immortality I will give you, but honestly the similarities between them is very uncanny in both character and general purpose. Ancients I always saw as extremely weak spirits. Sort of like Loa spirits outside the spirit realm. Very weak. Yet the power of the celestials seems to be much higher than that. Again, power levels being subjective (feels like DBZ in here) the whole general feel of ancient beings from a time long ago protecting and sheltering and teaching lesser races as well as being guardians of sacred lands or secrets is basically what both the celestials and the aspects are.
    Read moar books. The Ancients that you encounter during Hyjal slaughtered hundred of demons during the War of the Ancients (which, before the Battle for Mount Hyjal, was the only war in which the Ancients participated in) before finally subcumming to the massive amount of forces from the ancients- Malorne the Stag, for instance, created huge hills during his battle with Archimonde. The ONLY ancient to have survived the War of the Ancients was Tortos - thus, during the Battle for Mount Hyjal, the majority of the Ancients were freshly reincarnated, with only Tortos being the fresh one. Finally, Tortos is known for his defense rather then his attack.
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Raugnaut View Post
    The August Celestials are NOT a suitable successor to the Dragon Aspects- the 5 (Now 4) Dragon Aspects original duty were watchdogs in order to help make certain that the Old Gods did not escape their prison (unfortunately, they lost sight of that ultimate objective at some point in the past). The 4 Celestials are closer to the various Loas- more specifically, the bestial Loas found in Northrend, who, on top of being an animal of some sort, represent some sort of idea. (AKA the flying snake=spiritual realm, the cat=ferocity, the snake=cunning, the mammoth=tenacity, the rhino=strength, ect)
    Yet they fill the same role of Aspects in this expansion - the benevolent demigod aiding the players. So, in terms of lore and development, do you think that the Celestials are as interesting as the Aspects when it comes to benevolent demigods aiding you along the story?

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  16. #16
    Scarab Lord Grubjuice's Avatar
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    Deathwing and Alextrasza have existed since Warcraft II

    just want to point that out.

  17. #17
    Herald of the Titans FuxieDK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisisvacant View Post
    The Aspects still had a very strong presence in Vanilla.
    I disagree.. I still say, the Aspecs had NO presence in Vanilla or TBC...

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Manabomb View Post
    I disagree. They are honestly direct replacements to the aspects. "Far weaker" in a subjective term seeing as we barely know how far the power of the aspects and the celestials can even go. Immortality I will give you, but honestly the similarities between them is very uncanny in both character and general purpose. Ancients I always saw as extremely weak spirits. Sort of like Loa spirits outside the spirit realm. Very weak. Yet the power of the celestials seems to be much higher than that. Again, power levels being subjective (feels like DBZ in here) the whole general feel of ancient beings from a time long ago protecting and sheltering and teaching lesser races as well as being guardians of sacred lands or secrets is basically what both the celestials and the aspects are.
    I hate to be that guy but you've got some powerful bias over your eyes at the moment.

    The reason people are saying the Celestials are more like the Ancients is because the Aspects have a degree of control of entire concepts within reality. The "weaker spirits" you refered to fought off an invasion by the Burning Legion whereas the Celestials are shown having trouble just dealing with Mantid. "Subjective" isn't just an empty term. We can objectively infer from the current information gathered from contact with the Celestials that they have virtually no ability to save their own people from the Sha, the Mogu or invading mortal armies. They immediately struck up alliances with the new foreigners to help them secure their lands from threats they themselves were still having trouble dealing with.

    Seriousness aside, have you seen Chi-ji? The poor guy is the novelty member of the August Celestials. He's the Ringo. Kalygos would obliterate him if he were physically killable.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by FuxieDK View Post
    I disagree.. I still say, the Aspecs had NO presence in Vanilla or TBC...
    Um, did you even play Vanilla? Most of what you did was under direction by the Aspects' lieutenants. Did you do nothing for Chromie? Did you not fight any green dragons? Did you not do anything in Blackrock Mountain? Did you even play Vanilla? Do you even go here?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWindWalker View Post
    I hate to be that guy but you've got some powerful bias over your eyes at the moment.

    The reason people are saying the Celestials are more like the Ancients is because the Aspects have a degree of control of entire concepts within reality. The "weaker spirits" you refered to fought off an invasion by the Burning Legion whereas the Celestials are shown having trouble just dealing with Mantid. "Subjective" isn't just an empty term. We can objectively infer from the current information gathered from contact with the Celestials that they have virtually no ability to save their own people from the Sha, the Mogu or invading mortal armies. They immediately struck up alliances with the new foreigners to help them secure their lands from threats they themselves were still having trouble dealing with.

    Seriousness aside, have you seen Chi-ji? The poor guy is the novelty member of the August Celestials. He's the Ringo.
    I'm not sure why people are tripping so hard over the comparison. What other demigods are involved in the Pandaria story to compare with the Aspects who are present all throughout all iterations of WoW except BC and now Pandaria.

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  20. #20
    no
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