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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    the alliance has had the best lore this expansion. ive never felt more badass as an alliance player than this expansion and the alliance kicked butt this entire expansion, they pretty much didnt lose a single battle besides theramore and they completely won the pandaren expedition.
    Yeah, but we've had nothing to show for it. And we have the power of the thunder king too. Thatll probably be ignored though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Simulatio View Post
    A handful of people nut-busting about it on various forums does not equal popularity, and popularity does not equal good design.

  2. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by Sukhoi View Post
    Nagrand kind of had to be horde oriented. Maghar was a major orc installment. Meanwhile the broken are technically neutral.
    I knew that Nagrand would be special to the horde, and I'm fine with that. What I wasn't fine was having to go to wowhead and read horde questlines to piece together just what the hell we'd been doing there, since not only did the horde get all the focus, but the alliance didn't even get a postcard explaining what we missed.

  3. #223
    Pit Lord Sett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcuffel View Post
    Lots of reasons, as previously mentioned. Most of the key figures are or were Alliance heroes, not to mention the better (to me at least) questing experience on Alliance side. Except Venomspite, those quests were pretty fun. But overall I think Alliance questing was WAY better, like, for example, the Worgen storyline with the trappers in Grizzly Hills.
    I'm going to get a bit uppity with this. It is only because I enjoy the lore so much so do forgive if this reads a bit 'errmmmgaadz lore'. Some of the heroes you listed were never part of today's 'Alliance'.

    Tirion is neutral. Horde did the same amount of questing with him from classic wow. Even when he was on duty, he wasn't in the Alliance we know of today. The fact he's human is all that people can go on. Race shouldn't automatically make someone Horde or Alliance.

    Brann is pretty much neutral too. He shows up for an Alliance quest because it's related to his brothers. Otherwise the Horde interact with him just about the same.

    Arthas was never part of today's Alliance. Same point of 'human doesn't equal Alliance' comment goes here. Rhonin too to some extent though he did convert to being neutral full time with the Kirin Tor leadership.

    Jaina was the only character I could find from your list ( unless I missed a post ) that is now 100% Alliance. She did try to extend some kind of diplomacy with Thrall. Years ago I wrote about her and the neutrally issue but that simply isn't the case anymore.


    The Horde have the same quest line pretty much in Grizzly Hills? With that one chick you save and help her sister, yeah? I can't recall Grizzly Hills being too different when I went through as Horde. I don't recall much of WOTLK being so different save for the starter quests and Wrathgate. Wrathgate was the biggest Horde/Alliance attention given in the expac. The rest was focused purely on an equal scale of fighting against the Scourge.


    We might have had cool heroes. No doubt. They're now mostly dead, neutral, or both. Jaina honestly is a rare one in this day and age of Warcraft lore.
    Quote Originally Posted by r03dz View Post
    Also, Jaina and Vereesa going for a rid on their skeleton horses. :P (typo intended)
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  4. #224
    The Patient dcuffel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wych View Post
    I disagree about a cooler alliance intro quest, after doing both I think the horde version is better as the Hozen have a far more interesting dynamic where you become one of their leaders however I don't really think the difference is great. Anduin at this point may as well be considered neutral.

    My issue with MoP is how 5.3 and 5.4 are handled.

    5.3 was the biggest joke yet, the horde got to fight with their leaders and heroes to win back their towns that they started in with interesting dialogue about recruiting for the war.

    The alliance got to control a robo kitty to look at a couple things then have a chat to Vol'jin.

    It was even worse before Blizz changed it where Vol'jin pretty much said "shut up and follow my orders or fuck off we don't need you" until the Alliance players rightfully moaned and got it changed.

    5.4 is more that it literally makes 0 sense to anybody why the outcome is what it is, the alliance are clearly the superior force at the end of the raid yet willingly withdraw despite everything has happened without sorting out a peace treaty or a return of land
    I'll give you 5.3 I guess. I actually liked kind of prowling around with a robo-cat, felt stealthy, and dangerous since you can't exactly defend yourself. The quest chain was way too short though, should have done more with the robo-cat. As to 5.4, gameplay has to take precedence, though I do agree just walking away is silly, there should be SOME mark of Alliance being there. Not in returned lands, (gameplay), but something. Maybe a monument erected in the Valley of Strength right past the entrance or something, I don't know. But MoP is not Horde centered. Is not not not.

  5. #225
    Honestly, I think this is just a more specific, overarching complaint about the "more things change, the more things stay the same" aspect of MMOs. For those that care about story and lore, the idea that wonderful and terrible things happen (the death of gods, the raid of cities, invasions, etc) and leave NO mark on the world smacks of careless planning by developers. Additionally, more and more the lore is being subverted to conform to the needs of gameplay mechanics. The problem is, you could develop the lore AROUND the gameplay mechanics, which would seem more natural inside the game, or you can try to make whatever lore you believe is "cool" and then just ignore the outcomes in the game itself, which feels stilted and lazy. The same issues have occurred on both the Horde and Alliance side. To be honest, the entire idea that we have sufficient resources to continue a perpetual war is kind of ridiculous, and there really isn't a coherent understanding of what the hell we're fighting for on either side anymore. Additionally, we've grouped together to kill OLD GODS. At this point, the "war" between the sides would have demolished all the cities and areas already.

    I wouldn't hate if 5.5 or 6.0 explored the possibility of a temporary cease fire due to the ending of 5.4. You could easily write off world PvP as unauthorized border skirmishes, etc. Sure, you could end it later, but it would be a welcome change of pace to see the opposing factions in capital cities WITHOUT PvP, even for a small amount of time.

  6. #226
    MoP and Cataclysm are considered Horde-centric by a lot of people because the Alliance is always responding to some Horde action. The Horde is damn near always the initiator, while the Alliance is constantly running to try and catch up. With the Horde steamrolling over Alliance territories with very little counter-attack in Cata, and then setting itself up for conquering Pandaria and making the Alliance scramble to try to defend it in MoP, there are really not a lot of moments where the Alliance can say they took the initiative. Even the Siege of Orgrimmar is being set up by the Horde itself, with the Alliance just in for the ride.
    Faithful worshiper of Huehuetzilopochtli.

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by Alenarien View Post
    The Alliance and Horde intros are pretty much equal. The Alliance swoops in on a Zeppelin and orchestrates an attack against an established Horde base and takes it. The Horde swoops in on a Zeppelin and orchestrates an attack against an established Alliance base and takes it.



    And yet, just as with most other significant Alliance figures, he's made neutral and on par with Wrathion and Sunwalker Dezco in terms of neutrality.



    And the point made in your brackets is what matters. Horde got to raid Theramore; resulting in its total destruction. Horde got to raid Gilneas; rendering it a ghost town. Hell, prior to WoW itself, the Orcs raided Stormwind and left it in ruins. The only reason the Defias Brotherhood exists is because of what followed that ransacking. So in total; the Alliance have lost around 3 cities in lore, and managed to reclaim/rebuild one of them. Two Horde cities have been invaded by the Alliance; Undercity and Orgrimmar. With the former, we unwittingly help the Forsaken take back the Undercity thanks to us routing the demons and Jaina teleporting us out just as Varian had the notion to eliminate Thrall/Sylvanas there and then. The second, Orgrimmar, we willingly invade alongside the Horde, and we ultimately help them take it back.

    These are the distinctions to be made.



    And who is then calmed down by her Blue dragon lover and returned to her neutral state once more; par for the course when it comes to the Alliance.



    I won't be a fool, but I will say it's Horde-centric.
    i dont think youve been playing if you think jaina and anduin are neutral. anduin has gone from thinking the only way for peace is to stop fighting to realizing sometimes you have to fight for peace. and jaina has completely put the full force of the kirin tor behind the alliance.
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  8. #228
    I am Murloc! Thallidomaniac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dokhidamo View Post
    Alliance had better be the main faction for story purposes, meaning Alleria and Turalyon better return.
    ...and be promptly killed off to be raised as Champions of the Forsaken. You happy?

    Enstraynomic - League of Legends
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  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    fixed that for you. before the titans came and rescued them the trolls tauren and furbolg were just insects under the old gods boots. nothing more than play things
    The Titans created Azeroth, the Old Gods invaded it later.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  10. #230
    I am Murloc! Alenarien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    anduin has gone from thinking the only way for peace is to stop fighting to realizing sometimes you have to fight for peace.
    And yet nothing comes of his philosophical revelations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    and jaina has completely put the full force of the kirin tor behind the alliance.
    Where can I see this in-game? I can go to Dalaran from the Shrine of the Two Moons on my Blood Elf right at this very moment. There's no point saying the Alliance is 'doing stuff', when we don't see any effects of consequences of the stuff they're doing in-game. Meanwhile, I can go to Duskwallow Marsh right now and see the aftermath of what happened when the Horde 'did stuff'; namely in the form of the huge crater where Theramore once stood.
    The first thing I remember about the world — and I pray that it may be the last — is that I was a stranger in it.” - Malcolm Muggeridge, Apologia pro vita sua (1968)

  11. #231
    Herald of the Titans CosmicGuitars's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wych View Post
    No but I at least expected us to be told our lands were being returned even if it wasn't reflected and the horde had to agree to terms in order for us to leave.

    We hold all the cards it literally makes 0 sense for Varian to leave empty handed
    Then you'd complain it wasn't reflected in-game.

  12. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by CosmicGuitars View Post
    Then you'd complain it wasn't reflected in-game.
    Stop assuming my stance to suit your argument.

    If the raid ended with a conversation between Varian and Vol'jin where peace terms where discussed including the return of lands I would be more than happy with it.

  13. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by wych View Post
    Stop assuming my stance to suit your argument.

    If the raid ended with a conversation between Varian and Vol'jin where peace terms where discussed including the return of lands I would be more than happy with it.
    I wouldn't expect that to happen in the game. Sounds more like something that would happen in a novel.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    I'm determined to someday make Med'an awesome. (MickyNeilson)

    ´So.. sorry to bring this up but..you know that .."thing" (Med'an).. is that "thing" cannon still?
    ...as much have some have wished otherwise, yes. (Loreology)

  14. #234
    The Patient dcuffel's Avatar
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    OK, new idea. Let's just all get along, spread love and cheer and joy, and be one big happy faction!

    We shall be known as the Alliance of Happiness, and no one can say Horde bias to that because Horde's not even in the title, but Alliance is.

  15. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    I wouldn't expect that to happen in the game. Sounds more like something that would happen in a novel.
    Indeed, but even a few lines by Varian explaining they have demands to go along with them leaving Orgrimmar which will be met is fine

  16. #236
    The Insane Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thallidomaniac View Post
    ...and be promptly killed off to be raised as Champions of the Forsaken. You happy?
    As a matter of fact, that would be akin to claiming Thrall was the hero of a Legion expansion.
    "You should only install Warlords on your master hard drive. They will never be slaves." - @CM_Lore

    I'm expecting 7.0 revealed at Blizzcon. They want yearly expansions after all. If they don't reveal it, I'll be happy as it means Quality is still before Quantity in Irving.

  17. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by dcuffel View Post
    OK, new idea. Let's just all get along, spread love and cheer and joy, and be one big happy faction!

    We shall be known as the Alliance of Happiness, and no one can say Horde bias to that because Horde's not even in the title, but Alliance is.
    Weren't you just calling Alliance all crybabies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Simulatio View Post
    A handful of people nut-busting about it on various forums does not equal popularity, and popularity does not equal good design.

  18. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcuffel View Post
    OK, new idea. Let's just all get along, spread love and cheer and joy, and be one big happy faction!

    We shall be known as the Alliance of Happiness, and no one can say Horde bias to that because Horde's not even in the title, but Alliance is.
    I'd be happy with that, Blizzard simply don't have the skill or resources to properly reflect a Horde vs Alliance war.

    Let us just fight the legion together

  19. #239
    The Insane Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wych View Post
    Indeed, but even a few lines by Varian explaining they have demands to go along with them leaving Orgrimmar which will be met is fine
    Even if it had to do with disarmament it'd be fine. But something so it's not just "There's your city back, Thrall. We'll be on our way, feel free to keep all that land Garrosh stole from us."
    "You should only install Warlords on your master hard drive. They will never be slaves." - @CM_Lore

    I'm expecting 7.0 revealed at Blizzcon. They want yearly expansions after all. If they don't reveal it, I'll be happy as it means Quality is still before Quantity in Irving.

  20. #240
    Bloodsail Admiral Lazuli's Avatar
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    I stopped caring about faction favoritism a long time ago. - alliance
    Quote Originally Posted by KungFuFanta
    Oh my god, a company tries to put some lore flavor into the game mechanics, all is lost, whatever shall we do without a whole 1% of crit or haste.

    Quick, call Ukraine and Russia, let them know to put their conflict on standby because Touch of Elune is BULLSHIT!

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