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  1. #261
    Moderator Nobleshield's Avatar
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    Kind of disappointed if thing aren't at least mentioned that the Horde basically signs an armistice (not a true surrender) and gives us back our lands (possibly excluding Lordaeron because Sylvie won't like that), even if it's in name only like Dalaran being Alliance again, but can't say I'm surprised. If I didn't have friends Alliance side that refused to play Horde, and whom I raid with, I'd never touch Alliance again mostly because even if not true it really does seem like Horde get all the cool victories and lore, and Alliance is "these guys over here". I know that Alliance is fairly generic compared to some of the race dynamics of the Horde, but still.
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  2. #262
    I am Murloc! Alenarien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Penguintamer View Post
    What do you mean you got nothing from it? You kill Garrosh. You destroy Garrosh's Horde. You have to be fucking dense not to realize that you're not fighting the Horde in 5.4, you're fighting Garrosh, with the majority of the Horde on YOUR side. You're not gonna get shit other than the satisfaction that the Orc responsible for all of that shit is dead.
    And if you can't see why that's not satisfactory, then i'm not sure what to do. You can't blame all the Horde victories over the Alliance on "big, bad Garrosh"; from Cata onward, the Alliance has been screwed over on numerous occasions and it was a concerted Horde effort; whether it was the Forsaken doing it, or the Goblins, and so on and so forth. Yet now, in the expansion that was supposed to show the Alliance fighting back with a vengeance, we're not fighting "the Horde" at all; all the Horde's past crimes are being dumped onto the splinter group consisting of Garrosh and his followers, and we are helping the Horde take back their own city.

    When will the Horde help the Alliance rebuild Theramore? When will the Horde help the Alliance clean up Southshore? When will the Horde help the Alliance take back Gilneas? The two sides of this coin are simply not the same.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheGravemind View Post
    Wanting stricter immigration policies is predicated upon highly racist views, undoubtedly.

  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by wych View Post
    You think Thrall and Vol'jin would allow the forsaken to release plague canisters across Orgrimmar?

    It really isn't debatable that the alliance is much stronger at the end of SoO
    I don't think its relevant what the two of them would do. If your assumption is that Varian should have turned on the Horde and tried to bully them, then I think the forsaken and the goblins wouldn't have much of an issue with showing you otherwise.

    What, did you assume the horde needed the alliance in any of this? Orc's have some devastating war machines, but the Forsaken, Goblins, Tauren, and Goblins have more than enough things to end Garrosh on their own. Do you honestly believe it would make sense for the Alliance, at the core of the Horde capital, to have ANY chance of fighting the horde? With Garrosh gone, and the horde's power structure out, the Forsaken are free to do as they please. And theyre basically the scourge, so goodluck with that. I think the valkyr would have plenty of human corpse to replenish the troops with.

  4. #264
    Field Marshal Codah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alenarien View Post
    I expect or hope for at least a few lasting marks of Alliance victory in-game; rather than everything happening behind the scenes in books and stories on the WoW sites. Meanwhile, we get lasting marks of Horde victories all over the place; Theramore's a crater, Gilneas is a ghost town, Southshore is a slime pit, and so on and so forth.
    Theramore is the only thing you listed that didn't happen in Cataclysm. So the Horde got one thing outside of Cata. Big deal. The Alliance gained all kinds of ground in Kalimdor in Cata. I don't think it's unreasonably disproportionate right now. I'm sure something will be phased in the Alliance's favor in the next expansion.

  5. #265
    It's been a horde game since Warcraft 3. Why would you expect them to pander to the Alliance now?

  6. #266
    High Overlord az2d's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McNeil View Post
    Good thing I stopped caring about WoW stories after WotLK :P

    But some people need to seriously chill out when fictional stuff like this happens, the fact stays that WoW is just a video game.
    funny how people say they stopped caring or quite WoW but stil reply at threats and forums of WoW, you fill in the word for it. R*tarded perhaps?

  7. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomial17 View Post
    I don't think its relevant what the two of them would do. If your assumption is that Varian should have turned on the Horde and tried to bully them, then I think the forsaken and the goblins wouldn't have much of an issue with showing you otherwise.

    What, did you assume the horde needed the alliance in any of this? Orc's have some devastating war machines, but the Forsaken, Goblins, Tauren, and Goblins have more than enough things to end Garrosh on their own. Do you honestly believe it would make sense for the Alliance, at the core of the Horde capital, to have ANY chance of fighting the horde? With Garrosh gone, and the horde's power structure out, the Forsaken are free to do as they please. And theyre basically the scourge, so goodluck with that. I think the valkyr would have plenty of human corpse to replenish the troops with.
    Without a doubt the horde needed the alliance.

    It's referenced time and time again in game, including when Vol'jin apologises to alliance players and tells them we need to work together to beat Garrosh in 5.3.

    Not only that, Vol'jin's rebellion couldn't even take the landing in SoO according to the sound files from 5.4.

    The horde is battered and broken, you're deluded if you think they could easily deal with the alliance force just after you lose your warchief and his commanders.

  8. #268
    The Patient dcuffel's Avatar
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    As the new lead director of Deciding What Happens In WoW, I hereby proclaim that all hostilities are to cease immediately, with all 13 races intermingling in all zones, working together in glorious harmony.

  9. #269
    The Lightbringer Haidaes's Avatar
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    It was clear from the very beginning, that there was no way the ending would make any sense for an alliance raid. The only plot device one could use would be stuff like "oh shit here comes the true evil unleashed", like the legion raining down on orgrimar right at the end of the raid and turning the town into a smoking crater with everyone running for their lives. Well there is of course the "alliance ultimatly loses or is betrayed ending" but that is something blizzard has no spine to pull off. So we will most likely get a stupid deus ex machina ending, mmo's are absolut shit devices to tell a story as we all hopefully know by now, that is just the way it is.

    Btw, I'm horde but bad story telling is bad story telling.
    Last edited by Haidaes; 2013-07-17 at 08:33 PM.

  10. #270
    I am Murloc! Scummer's Avatar
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    As it stands from what we do know and is implied I'm very disappointed with this from the Alliance PoV. It's a real killjoy.

  11. #271
    Quote Originally Posted by Alenarien View Post
    And if you can't see why that's not satisfactory, then i'm not sure what to do. You can't blame all the Horde victories over the Alliance on "big, bad Garrosh"; from Cata onward, the Alliance has been screwed over on numerous occasions and it was a concerted Horde effort; whether it was the Forsaken doing it, or the Goblins, and so on and so forth. Yet now, in the expansion that was supposed to show the Alliance fighting back with a vengeance, we're not fighting "the Horde" at all; all the Horde's past crimes are being dumped onto the splinter group consisting of Garrosh and his followers, and we are helping the Horde take back their own city.

    When will the Horde help the Alliance rebuild Theramore? When will the Horde help the Alliance clean up Southshore? When will the Horde help the Alliance take back Gilneas? The two sides of this coin are simply not the same.
    Are you seriously crying about this?
    Let me get this straight. The alliance, a group of races banded together to try to bring their best interpretation of order and balance and good nature to the world by defeating chaos and darkness.

    And you find it surprising, that the king of said Allegiance would allow a faction that has recently ended a tyrants reign begin to re-group? If you don't remember, Thrall and Varian were on decent terms, it was always Garrosh who wanted to fight with the alliance over things. As far as the story is really concerned, It's not the alliance vs the Horde, its the Alliance vs Garrosh, vs the Core of the Horde. You guys keep saying you want an alliance moment, THIS IS IT...The Horde probably wont ever get to have a raid based around destroying an entire factions leader and completely changing the power structure in the other group. Stop looking at it from the "what are we getting" perspective and look at it from what this battle/raid marks for history as far as the lore goes. This is about change, this whole expansion has been about change and the repercussions of war. Varian is taking the first step in starting fresh, He's walking away so that both sides may prosper. If you don't see that as the action of someone who has a lot of tough and respectful decisions, then you people will never be happy with anything short of gaining back an entire zone.

  12. #272
    Dreadlord Ishmad's Avatar
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    It's a Civil War between Horde and True Horde / Kor'kron, Alliance just wants piece of it.

    It's obvious that Horde gets the biggest slice of the cake.

  13. #273
    Quote Originally Posted by wych View Post
    We win with the horde fractured yet we come away with nothing, not even recovering any of our initial losses
    This is proof that everyone is forgetting one detail. One very large and very over looked detail.

    What would it take for the Horde to pay off the debt they've been put in with the Alliance basically saving them at the last minute? It will have to be paid, and someone will come to collect.

  14. #274
    I am Murloc! Alenarien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcuffel View Post
    As the new lead director of Deciding What Happens In WoW, I hereby proclaim that all hostilities are to cease immediately, with all 13 races intermingling in all zones, working together in glorious harmony.
    Your sarcasm aside, I don't think you're understanding the issue. Neither I or many other people are claiming that the war in Warcraft should be a matter of equality; with every Alliance victory resulting in a Horde victory, and every territory taken resulting in another territory claimed, and so on. The issue is that since WOTLK, the Alliance has been losing to the Horde in its entirety; our 'revenge' in MoP consists us fighting "Garrosh and his big Kor'kron meanies", whilst the 'Horde' in its entirety has its responsibilities long awaited defeat thrown onto the scapegoat (Garrosh and his cronies), whilst we help the supposed 'good' Horde take back its city and 'redeem' itself no doubt.

    That's neither victory or vengeance. That's the coward's way out from a biased lore team.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheGravemind View Post
    Wanting stricter immigration policies is predicated upon highly racist views, undoubtedly.

  15. #275
    Quote Originally Posted by wych View Post
    Without a doubt the horde needed the alliance.

    It's referenced time and time again in game, including when Vol'jin apologises to alliance players and tells them we need to work together to beat Garrosh in 5.3.

    Not only that, Vol'jin's rebellion couldn't even take the landing in SoO according to the sound files from 5.4.

    The horde is battered and broken, you're deluded if you think they could easily deal with the alliance force just after you lose your warchief and his commanders.
    No, The trolls/tauren/blood elves are battered down and broken. The forsaken have weapons on par with bioweapons in our day and age. Weapons that don't need to cut or slash or be cast, simply need to touch. These weapons melt away armors, liquefy bones. There is no real protection.

  16. #276
    This bickering of Horde vs Alliance favoritism is just petty. I am more concerned with having a compelling story, that makes sense and progresses over time. We haven't had that since Wrath. To me the last two expansions have just had such tenuous links from antagonist to antagonist. Then cramming in a ton of lore into a patch to tell the story arc.

    The entire overall story arc of the warcraft series has been about the humans vs the orcs, all the giant dragons, demons and alike have been distractors from this. It has always boiled down to Horde vs Alliance, and now they have written themselves into a situation where the Horde could easily be crushed by the Alliance. And the only way out to preserve the integrity of the game is to do something completely absurd with the Alliance protagonists.

    This shouldn't be about crying over whose faction NPC's get more screen time, both sides should be pissed at how much the story sucks.

  17. #277
    The Patient dcuffel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alenarien View Post
    Your sarcasm aside, I don't think you're understanding the issue. Neither I or many other people are claiming that the war in Warcraft should be a matter of equality; with every Alliance victory resulting in a Horde victory, and every territory taken resulting in another territory claimed, and so on. The issue is that since WOTLK, the Alliance has been losing to the Horde in its entirety; our 'revenge' in MoP consists us fighting "Garrosh and his big Kor'kron meanies", whilst the 'Horde' in its entirety has its responsibilities long awaited defeat thrown onto the scapegoat (Garrosh and his cronies), whilst we help the supposed 'good' Horde take back its city and 'redeem' itself no doubt.

    That's neither victory or vengeance. That's the coward's way out from a biased lore team.
    I know it probably seems like I'm being sarcastic, but I'm really not, I really think factions should dissolve, I think it would solve the problems on both sides, or we could even still have 2 factions, just call them something else, and have any race be able to go to either faction. Or something. I don't know. But whatshispanda made me realize, you know, I really was being kind of combative, and that in turn got me thinking, why do we fight at all? Why can't we all just get along?

  18. #278
    I am Murloc! Alenarien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomial17 View Post
    You guys keep saying you want an alliance moment, THIS IS IT
    If an "Alliance moment" consists of the Horde being able to do what it wants for an expansion, then being able to scapegoat all its crimes onto a single, tyrannical Orc and his band of loyal followers who we help the 'true Horde' kill, then you will forgive the Alliance for not enjoying their "moments".

    Quote Originally Posted by Nomial17 View Post
    ...The Horde probably wont ever get to have a raid based around destroying an entire factions leader and completely changing the power structure in the other group.
    Follow the Silverpine quest line from the Alliance and Horde perspective and you get a series of events that results in the Forsaken killing the heir of a kingdom and sending its King, Queen and few remaining people running with their tails between their legs with the aid of the Night Elves. The consequence of this, as is seen on a return visit, is a ruined Gilneas. This is just one example; all this was done to Gilneas without the dignity of it happening in a raid.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheGravemind View Post
    Wanting stricter immigration policies is predicated upon highly racist views, undoubtedly.

  19. #279
    Stood in the Fire MORGATH99's Avatar
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    ppl still dont understand the horde is wow alliance is just there so the horde have something to farm greates heroes are on the horde side just droping some names : broxigar only mortal to stand against sergeras and only mortal who wounded guess whos side was he on the horde dont spect to see an alliance do that no no the shit themself before the kill themself or the will come to their king an theirr king will tell em to build him a statue or something like that so deal with it horde is wow alliance is just cannon fodder or something like that

  20. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by Penguintamer View Post
    What do you mean you got nothing from it? You kill Garrosh. You destroy Garrosh's Horde. You have to be fucking dense not to realize that you're not fighting the Horde in 5.4
    Both sides are Horde.
    Thats why its called a civil war.
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

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