[spoiler] Ghostcrawler confirms ridiculous Alliance outcome in 5.4

[Tydrane]

I'm amazed Alliance players have the gall to complain about the outcome of SoO. By all indications, the lore standpoint appears to be that High-King Varian Wrynn (who is nearly as bad a character as Garrosh is, in differen - Wolf God, anyone?) allows the Horde to appoint a new Warchief. Like, seriously? The Horde has the WoW equivalent of a nuclear option; if the Alliance didn't get the fuck out of our city, it'd be plaguetown.

[Raincrow]

Honestly, I don't think it's a secret that the game favors Horde from a Lore perspective. Perhaps that's by design, because the history of the Horde is more eventful overall than the History of the Alliance. Additionally, a great deal of alliance lore is from the original WC series, which focused on both sides. Of course, that ended with the Alliance leader becoming one of the most powerful villains of all time and the Horde leader making his first steps towards the whole "Orc Messiah" thing.

I was having a discussion about faction leaders the other day, and it's pretty telling. Compare the world and quest impact of the leaders on both sides.

Horde has: Thrall (every quest on both sides should just have a cursory mention of Thrall at this point), Sylvanas, Vol'jin, Baine, Cairne, Garrosh.

Alliance has: Varian, Jaina, Velen....the dwarf guy, the gnome guy, the worgen guy....

Development-wise, a great deal of lore has gone into the conflict of the Horde, but in some ways, it makes sense. The Alliance is a strong singular force, mostly aligned under one guy, and the races all generally like each other and get along. The Horde is a hodge-podge of people who, in some cases, can't stand each other and yet fight so they don't all end up in Alliance concentration camps. Of course it will have more internal strife, intrigue, and outright warring than Alliance. And that means the leaders will be more defined as well.

[Scummer]

I think I prefer reading about this topic on SoL. There are far too many people in this thread who cannot be impartial to the story.

[CosmicGuitars]

Honestly, I don't think it's a secret that the game favors Horde from a Lore perspective. Perhaps that's by design, because the history of the Horde is more eventful overall than the History of the Alliance. Additionally, a great deal of alliance lore is from the original WC series, which focused on both sides. Of course, that ended with the Alliance leader becoming one of the most powerful villains of all time and the Horde leader making his first steps towards the whole "Orc Messiah" thing.

I was having a discussion about faction leaders the other day, and it's pretty telling. Compare the world and quest impact of the leaders on both sides.

Horde has: Thrall (every quest on both sides should just have a cursory mention of Thrall at this point), Sylvanas, Vol'jin, Baine, Cairne, Garrosh.

Alliance has: Varian, Jaina, Velen....the dwarf guy, the gnome guy, the worgen guy....

Development-wise, a great deal of lore has gone into the conflict of the Horde, but in some ways, it makes sense. The Alliance is a strong singular force, mostly aligned under one guy, and the races all generally like each other and get along. The Horde is a hodge-podge of people who, in some cases, can't stand each other and yet fight so they don't all end up in Alliance concentration camps. Of course it will have more internal strife, intrigue, and outright warring than Alliance. And that means the leaders will be more defined as well.

I wouldn't bother counting Baine. He has the personality of wet cardboard. Cairne is dead.

[Rabka Uhalla]

I wouldn't bother counting Baine. He has the personality of wet cardboard. Cairne is dead.

How dare you insult wet cardboard like that!

[MathAddict]

The alliance tends to trend towards lawful good where as the horde trends towards chaotic good.

Lawful good is always boring. Varian's move to leave SoO the way that he does is an iconic lawful good decision. There is no power grab on his part, he is just doing the absolutely right thing: he is giving a second chance to a broken people.

[rpdrichard]

The alliance tends to trend towards lawful good where as the horde trends towards chaotic good.

Lawful good is always boring. Varian's move to leave SoO the way that he does is an iconic lawful good decision. There is no power grab on his part, he is just doing the absolutely right thing: he is giving a second chance to a broken people.

That's not lawful good that's just lawful stupid, the horde is using Garrosh as a scapegoat for all they did while they still where on his side

[Drilnos]

I wouldn't bother counting Baine. He has the personality of wet cardboard. Cairne is dead.

If Baine has the personality of wet cardboard, so did Cairne. For all intents and purposes they're the same guy. Cairne only died because he had a clone in waiting who could step forward, letting the writers get off a cheap dramatic punch without actually losing a character, or rather a characterization template. Scribble out the "age" box and fill in a lower number, and voila. Here comes the new tauren, same as the old tauren.

Magni was the same way, once Muradin wandered back into the story. Though Muradin, to his credit, has at least a few differences other than his name and age with his brother.

And the guy you're quoting forgot the blood elves and goblins have a leader each, which doesn't really bolster his argument.

[MathAddict]

That's not lawful good that's just lawful stupid, the horde is using Garrosh as a scapegoat for all they did while they still where on his side

Let's not play tit for tat. Only the stubbornly blind or the willfully ignorant act like one side is better than the other. Alliance and horde both have transgressions on their hands. This is the first expansion where the horde really went over the top with much more hostility than the alliance. Garrosh was the guy behind the curtain this expansion causing all the extra hostility. If you don't think so, then you have an obvious bias. You see Garrosh or his influences in many of the quest that are red vs. blue.

Varian is making a classic lawful good move. If you don't think so, there really is no pleasing you. If you wanted a king who was going to rape and pillage a city, you should have rolled horde.

[Austilias]

the horde is using Garrosh as a scapegoat for all they did while they still where on his side

And that's precisely why it's frankly unreasonable to expect the Alliance to be satisfied with the Siege of Orgrimmar and for them to consider it their long awaited retribution, when in reality it's something else entirely. Hopefully more people begin to see this.

[MathAddict]

yes. They don't have to revamp everything, just the ones central to the story, like, Ashenvale, Gilneas, Stonetalon, etc. Oh well, everyone knew they were full of shit from the get go. It's not a surprise; the only people who need to stfu are the Horde fans who still insist they aren't the favoured faction.

Those zones were revamped for one big reason: before cata, there was a leveling zone imbalance with a favoritism towards the alliance. The horde has a much less linear leveling experience. Cata smoothed out the level process for the horde by giving them some new zones masked under the lore of military conquest.

- - - Updated - - -

And that's precisely why it's frankly unreasonable to expect the Alliance to be satisfied with the Siege of Orgrimmar and for them to consider it their long awaited retribution, when in reality it's something else entirely. Hopefully more people begin to see this.

That's the heart of the alliance. You guys will not do what the horde does. That's why Varian walks away. He is a lawful good character now. Like I just stated a few post ago, if alliance players wanted a leader who would go the route of raping and pillaging a city paired with a power grab, you should have rolled horde.

[Guldur]

I think the Horde has it coming big time... and then the Alliance will probably still not be happy campers...

[Austilias]

That's the heart of the alliance. You guys will not do what the horde does. That's why Varian walks away. He is a lawful good character now. Like I just stated a few post ago, if alliance players wanted a leader who would go the route of raping and pillaging a city paired with a power grab, you should have rolled alliance.

I already have. I gave up hope on Blizzard giving the Alliance any satisfying progression long ago; much as I had high hopes for MoP. Being the "goody-two-shoes" simply doesn't compare to the alternative and how it's portrayed in WoW.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Cataclysm, they said the Alliance was going to fight back and have this awesome moment of retaliation against the Horde attacks.
Mists of Pandaria, they said the Alliance was going to have their fist pump moment, their big victory over the Horde and a defining moment to be proud of.
Next expansion, the Alliance will be in a position of strength.....

"Wait til next expansion" is the repeat mantra for Alliance awesomeness. :P

I simply don't have any faith in Blizzard delivering on it anymore. I'd love to be pleasantly surprised and really proven wrong, though.

Actually, "Wait till next expansion" isn't the only mantra for Alliance story.

"You'll get your retaliation moment" is Blizz's mantra regarding pacifying the Alliance.

In Cata they said we'd get it over the lost zones, in MoP they said we'd get it over Theramore, I bet they'll say it about SoO being a flop as well.

[Outofmana]

It just pains me to see such unrealistic turn of events, as if the alliance would just walk out of Orgrimmar with nothing gained, them going with this story is just utterly disgusting.

[Sky High]

well what can be said, they are already saying there are going to be Org changes in a later patch. I'm sure it lying in rubble and I have to wonder are people demanding areas be changed that would alter the leveling in those zones (despite how they already changed them to equal out the experience already), or some phasing that you can only gawk at and stroke your alliance ego to. both won't happen since it can bring up a shit storm on the devs wasting time on things that are purely cosmetic or how it's reverting back the work they already did in Cata. you can criticize the devs for painting themselves into a corner here. but now that the damage is done bitching about it more wont do much but kill a few brains cells.

[Keltas]

Do people really care about this rp stuff ? I sure as hell don't in the slightest and I can't imagine how someone would be interested by this

It's a massive multiplayer online ROLE PLAYING GAME

The point of it in the first place, is it's story. You're supposed to be playing as a character as though you are part of a grand story. Why does everyone forget the point of mmo's in the first place?

On topic; The alliance really needs to gain something out of this. Wrathion is correct when he says that varian should unite the world under a single banner. The coming apocalypse needs a united group to defeat it (lol not really, only 10 players is enough).

Sadly, they would rather keep the world divided instead of moving the game forward and letting it unite. PvP can still be in the game, battlegrounds of the past are the same as low level zones, in the past. New battlegrounds could easily be written off as "war games" or something. World pvp can be kept around, people still hold grudges and thus can fight them out. (although personally, world pvp has fallen into griefing and actual world pvp is so rare, it's probably just a relic that needs to be forgotten.)

[Drilnos]

Those zones were revamped for one big reason: before cata, there was a leveling zone imbalance with a favoritism towards the alliance. The horde has a much less linear leveling experience. Cata smoothed out the level process for the horde by giving them some new zones masked under the lore of military conquest.

The Horde wasn't the only side that got new zones or a smoother leveling experience. The Southern Barrens is completely overrun by Alliance. Before Cata, it was green territory for the Horde. Now they have to get into Stonetalon by sneaking past an Alliance fortification, not to mention the war zone blocking off 1K Needles or the defensive wall blocking off Mulgore. Of course, this gave Alliance players a safe path into southern Kalimdor from Dustwallow, which previously didn't exist.

[MathAddict]

I already have. I gave up hope on Blizzard giving the Alliance any satisfying progression long ago; much as I had high hopes for MoP. Being the "goody-two-shoes" simply doesn't compare to the alternative and how it's portrayed in WoW.

I think the goody-two-shoes fits the alliance so well though. I love characters like anduin, and velen. I have absolutely despised king chin until this expansion. He is more kingly, he feels so much more like a king terenas and less like an orc wearing a human suit. The alliance got some grey characters this expansion. I look forward to seeing how moria and the dark irons play a role in the alliance. Jania is essentially flying around in a city that can obliterate any hostiles it comes into contact with and she is not lawful good like varian. Jania is primed for some dark stroy telling. She might become the alliance's sylvanas. I have enjoyed the alliance this expansion much more than any previous times in wow.

[Sky High]

On topic; The alliance really needs to gain something out of this. Wrathion is correct when he says that varian should unite the world under a single banner. The coming apocalypse needs a united group to defeat it (lol not really, only 10 players is enough).

which unless you want to break the game mechanics will never happen. it is a two faction MMO where both sides are at odds with each other, being united in a later expansion kind of kills part of the game and story.